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  1. #1
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    Default TIG hardfacing equivalent?

    Many years ago (10 to 15), a tool maker gave me some stick electrodes he referred to as 'Fox' electrodes, used for repairing injection moulding dies, so (I assume) a hard facing material. Looking on the internet I have found Fox electrodes but there are several types. I can only guess at the type I was given as perhaps being a low hydrogen electrode.

    The question to the assembled is whether there is a TIG equivalent. I use these for small repairs to tools and the stick electrodes have worked in the past but would prefer something I can apply with the TIG torch. Any thoughts?

    Michael

  2. #2
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    Hi Michael, I've not experienced hard facing with TIG before, but found this from CIG.
    https://www.cigweld.com.au/range/wel.../tig-rodsgtaw/
    A lot of different rods for different applications.
    HTH
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  3. #3
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    Dec 2005
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    South Australia
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    You can get gas/tig hard facing rods, I have not bought any for years there are different grades depending on the use as far as I am aware no one keeps them on the shelf these days
    places such as Southern Cross or Wess can order them in

    I have Cig catalogue I can look up for specs if you have a idea of the use

  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    Many years ago (10 to 15), a tool maker gave me some stick electrodes he referred to as 'Fox' electrodes, used for repairing injection moulding dies, so (I assume) a hard facing material. Looking on the internet I have found Fox electrodes but there are several types. I can only guess at the type I was given as perhaps being a low hydrogen electrode.

    The question to the assembled is whether there is a TIG equivalent. I use these for small repairs to tools and the stick electrodes have worked in the past but would prefer something I can apply with the TIG torch. Any thoughts?

    Michael
    I would suggest those "Fox" electrodes (Bohler Fox I believe) would probably have been the equivalent to the old Toolcraft electrodes. These were an air hardening tool steel deposit designed for rebuilding and repairing dies. The old manuals that CIG supplied with their machines had a section describing grinding an axe back to a 3mm face then running beads of Toolcraft then grinding back to an edge to make a tool for cutting round bar and reinforcing bar.
    Depending on the size of the job you are doing, I have had really good results repairing dies used for pressing aluminium guide posts, bolt cutter jaws and tree lopper blades using old HSS drill bits as TIG filler. Drill bits from 3mm to 6mm work really well as far as being able to melt them off in the arc and I just hold them with pliers or vice grips as they get short in order to maximise their usage.
    You certainly can get TIG hardfacing filler, but it will be expensive I should imagine.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the tip about using HSS drill bits as a filler for Hardfacing. A good excuse for keeping the broken drill bits that seem to accumulate.
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  6. #6
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    Oct 2015
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    melbourne
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    Default

    Using old drill bits as hard facing was one of the tricks the 'Dillon' salesman taught when I bought my oxy/acet torch. (aka henrob)


    Russ

  7. #7
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    Beware the shank of most drills is a softer steel grade friction welded to the HSS drill part. Might pay to only use the flute section of the drill for hard facing.

  8. #8
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    This came out today, talking about TIG filler.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUzHFLV4IyQ

    The brand he is demonstrating is "WeldMold". Anyone heard of it?

    Michael

  9. #9
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    I have not heard of them but here is the website looks interesting Weld Mold

  10. #10
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    Not quite what you were looking for, but I have some Gemini H600 rods kicking around here I bought a while ago.

    https://dynaweld.com.au/wp-content/u..._h_600r_ds.pdf

    Seem to be about $75 for a 5kg box now, I'm sure I didn't pay anywhere near that much, some hunting might find them cheaper...

    I don't believe there is any reason why you can't knock the flux off and simply use them as a TIG filler, pretty sure none of the magic is in the flux. I've never actually tried it that way yet, I should have had a go the other day when I was building something up. That WAS how I'd intended to use them when I bought them, but just don't use them often to be honest. From my recollection looking at the time, TIG hard facing rods were both hard to find, and horrendously expensive in comparison... You might have better luck tracking down MIG hardfacing wire at a reasonable price, but of course the diameter may become an issue.

    If you like I can do a little test with using them with the TIG, the hardness test won't be any more scientific than "does it file", but could be interesting. Definitely NOT fileable as laid down by the arc welder.

  11. #11
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    The flux on stick electrodes is actually quite complex - when Adelaide had a CSIRO welding research centre I spoke to one of the guys there and apparently that is where they hide some of the alloying elements, so for example if Vanadium was one of the things that made the weld go hard, then there could be that metallic powder in the flux, so when the weld pool was operating, the alloying would take place.

    Michael

  12. #12
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    Depending on what sort of hardness you require there is always the old reliable Stelllite. It does not seem to be used much these days but it used to be the Go To for a reasonably easy to apply hardfacing material, although it is rather expensive.
    https://www.alloysint.com.au/nickel-cobalt-based/

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