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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    35
    Posts
    14

    Default Gas safety valve??

    Gday fellas,

    I’m new to MIG welding (never even attempted), bought all my gear to get started (unimig viper 185).

    Hoping to lay some beads and practice this arvo went and got a size E argon/co2 bottle from Bunnings but when I connect the reg to the bottle I get no gas flow at all. It’s as if the fitting isn’t long enough to depress the little safety pin thing in the coupler on the bottle (pics attached)

    Am I doing something wrong or did I just get really unlucky and get a dud bottle first time round?




  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    Hi creesy,
    Welcome to the forum,

    Perhaps an obvious question, but have you unscrewed the blue valve handle on the top of the cylinder.

    Try it with out attaching the gas line. A open it and quickly turn it off.

    A quick blast of gas will assure you that the cylinder is full of gas and the valve is working.

    That is of course unless gas cylinder valves have changed.

    Just direct the gas in a safe direction. Do it quickly ,on then off. It is loud so you won't miss it.

    You won't lose much gas.

    GRAHAME

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    35
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Thanks Grahame.

    I have opened the cylinder with nothing connected no gas flows.

    The only way I can get gas to flow is if something is inserted into the valve to depress the + shaped piece inside the valve (visible in the picture). I’m guessing this is some type of safety feature to stop gas flow with nothing connected to the bottle.

    I assumed all MIG bottles must have this but obviously I’m wrong lol

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    Hi creesy,

    No you are probably right .Its been quite a while since I have opened a gas cylinder and I wasn't aware they have this new ( to me) addition. Are you far away from Bunnings. Perhaps you can check it out with them.

    I have multiple hundreds of cylinder and this WAS the way you checked there was no crap in the outlet. The blast we used to do as a normal thing is probably now seen as a safety hazard when some was injured by that blast of gas.

    They guys who use the current ones should be along soon and able to assist you. Possibly you need a new fitting compatible with the upgraded cylinder.

    I am feeling really left behind

    Grahame

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    35
    Posts
    14

    Default

    I would prefer a cylinder without the safety crap tbh.

    More moving parts usually means more problems.

    I’m pretty close to bunnings so worst comes to worst I can go down there and swap it. Just wanted to check that I wasn’t missing something obvious first.

    Thanks for the help Grahame

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,942

    Default

    Hi Creesy and WELCOME to a TOP FORUM.
    I know this may sound silly, but when you screwed the regulator in, did you then screw the knob on the regulator in at all, only needs about a turn, after opening by turning on the knob on top of the cylinder.
    How many gauges does the regulator have, I can't quite see?? If it has 2, one gauge will be the pressure in the cylinder, and the other will be the pressure in the hose to the welder, from memory this needs to be about 15-20 I think it's LPM, (Litres Per Minute). The needle should rise as you screw the knob in.
    I hope this helps. Any problems please post on here or send me a PM.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    35
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Yep the regulator has to gauges one for the bottle pressure one for the pressure to the machine

    Neither get a reading and no gas flows from the bottle.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
    Age
    59
    Posts
    6,540

    Default

    Did the cylinder come with a plastic plug in the valve or heat shrink around it? I'm just wondering whether you were given a dead one instead of one with a charge in it.

    Michael

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    586

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by creesy View Post
    Thanks Grahame.

    I have opened the cylinder with nothing connected no gas flows.

    The only way I can get gas to flow is if something is inserted into the valve to depress the + shaped piece inside the valve (visible in the picture). I’m guessing this is some type of safety feature to stop gas flow with nothing connected to the bottle.

    I assumed all MIG bottles must have this but obviously I’m wrong lol
    What you have is a type 10 argon (inert) regulator and a cylinder with a type 10 valve. Correct as per the Australian standard, and nothing out of the ordinary there, Period.

    That valve within the valve is a pressure retention valve. It retains approx 10psi in the cylinder to prevent contamination - for example a cylinder that is left with valve open, on its side, in a yard, collecting rainwater and grinding dust. Contaminants that find their way inside the cylinder will give a crap weld, and clog any sintered filters on gas solenoids within a bottle of gas- ie damage the machine. So its there for your benefit.

    If you open the cylinder valve with nothing connected (carefully), gas will always flow without a reg, as long as the internal pressure of the cylinder (contents pressure, or the HP gauge on your regulator) is greater than the PRV pressure of approx 10psi.

    TL;DR - your bottle is empty.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    35
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Last two replies are bang on...Bunnings gave me an empty cylinder....

    Being new to Mig bottles I had no idea there was meant to be a plastic plug in the cylinder to suggest that it was full lol

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Rockhampton, QLD
    Age
    68
    Posts
    454

    Default

    Welcome to the forum.

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