Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Needs Pictures Needs Pictures:  0
Picture(s) thanks Picture(s) thanks:  0
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    73
    Posts
    20

    Default TIG Newbie Questions

    I tried my first welds on the week-end after spending weeks "learning" the ropes on various welding sites, Jody, Mr TIG, has provided many inspirational hours of tuition. But these guys have 30 years under the belt so I knew there would be numerous challenges.

    So the new Everlast 210ext was set up with a new bottle of Argon and I purchased and some 1.6 mm E70 S6 TIG filler rods from BOC after researching a good starter rod for mild steel.

    I swapped out the standard big 24 gun for a Less cludgy No9 with a flexible head fitted a1.6 zirconiated tungsten
    I started with clean thin box section scrap.
    I cleaned the box section with both steel wool and degreaser. Electrode carefully ground to a point on Tormek grinder.

    Day 1. .... I am too embarrassed to post the first bead welds which were fairly disastrous varying from holes to dabs of filler rod with plenty of dunking the electrode...... All expected.
    Day 2. Better welds using the foot peddle at around 50 amps with care taken to form a puddle and ..... Careful feeding of filler rod.
    Some evidence of acceptable beads. Still rough!

    What I didn't like was the weld on the box material was surrounded by a toxic looking yellow powdery oxide and the welds looked porous and grainy. Does box section contain additives that cause the yellow oxide? Phosphorous, Manganese ???

    Am I doing something wrong? Argon set to 6litres/min

    Welding on scrap flat bar was entirely different with much cleaner welds, and a bluefish tempered colour surrounding the weld so the box section may have some ingredients that cause the yellow stain?

    Advice would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Armidale NSW
    Age
    52
    Posts
    915

    Default

    Was the box section completely clean of paint, etc?
    Were you welding the box section when it was a little windy?
    Cheers.

    Vernon.
    __________________________________________________
    Bite off more than you can chew and then chew like crazy.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Adelaide
    Age
    68
    Posts
    1,373

    Default

    Can we get some pictures, it would help diagnose what's going on.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    73
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Hi Vernon the box section was bright and clean purchased from Handy Steel in Melbourne from the scrap box. Welding done in workshop.....
    Could it be I am not using the right filler rod?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Armidale NSW
    Age
    52
    Posts
    915

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by warmtone View Post
    Could it be I am not using the right filler rod?
    Nah, I doubt it.
    It's not unusual to see a little brown staining (outside the gas zone), so I wouldn't be too worried ... the porous welds are a different story.
    The porosity could be from contamination or from poor gas coverage (low flow, wind, wrong torch angle, leak).
    Cheers.

    Vernon.
    __________________________________________________
    Bite off more than you can chew and then chew like crazy.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Adelaide
    Age
    68
    Posts
    1,373

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by warmtone View Post
    Hi Vernon the box section was bright and clean purchased from Handy Steel in Melbourne from the scrap box. Welding done in workshop
    It will still probably have oil and or grease on it, try cleaning it off with a flap wheen and/or acetone first.
    Is the steel mild steel or galvanised, from what you've said about the powdery oxide I'm wondering whether it's the latter.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    535

    Default

    I've got the yellow poisonous-looking stuff before (once or twice with porosity too) and it's often been due to gas issues. Are you sure that you have pure argon? Are you sure you don't have a leak in your system? Do you have one of those torch flow meters? They're only a few $ and can ensure you're getting the same flow at the torch as at the bottle.

    I've had porosity alone a couple of times with galvanised when welding enclosed tube and it's pressurised and heated offgassed zinc I guess tries to flow out the bit I'm welding shut. It pops and is a nightmare. But it's hard to clean inside tube and the fabrication wasn't structural so I just made it work, with a lot of tungstens and multiple filling passes over the porous areas.

    My gas issues have been once when my bottle was running low and other times because I weld outside and the wind blows the shielding away.

    Get some clean plate or bar. Get 3mm or thicker (how many amps do you have?). Use a flapwheel like Gavin said, make it shiny. Don't worry about filler. Just try running an autogenous weld if you don't have the timing and coordination down yet. You don't need filler for running a straight weld. Your problem won't be the filler but not using it will eliminate a variable.

    I also get yellow from touchdowns. Check this old thread:

    //metalworkforums.com/threads/1...ed-Steel/page5

    There are a couple of places there, e.g. the picture with the super low amp 57A butt setting with a couple of touchdowns. I distinctly remember having shaky hands from something and all the weaving meant I touched a couple of times. Does it look like that? It's pretty obvious when it happens.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
    Age
    59
    Posts
    6,542

    Default

    If the box section was 'bright and clean' the chances are you are trying to weld galvanized/ plated material.
    Please stop right now as without adequate precautions, that stuff is really bad for your lungs.
    Plain steel will weld much more nicely and not produce a toxic yellow look.

    Michael

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    73
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin Newman View Post
    Can we get some pictures, it would help diagnose what's going on.

    Hi here's an example of the yellow issue on my first welds. As far as I know this not galvanised and is mild steel.
    The second image was some flat metal,mild steel strip which gave much cleaner results.
    I checked the filler rod as BOC 70S2 TIG FILLER ROD
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    535

    Default

    First one looks galvanised for sure.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    73
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    If the box section was 'bright and clean' the chances are you are trying to weld galvanized/ plated material.
    Please stop right now as without adequate precautions, that stuff is really bad for your lungs.
    Plain steel will weld much more nicely and not produce a toxic yellow look.

    Michael
    Yes it was bright but I thought it was jus "new" mild steel.
    i also picked up some square tubing painted blue.... Is this mild steel with a protection layer?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    535

    Default

    Mild steel painted. You just need to remove the paint. With the galv you need to remove all of that to about an inch away from the weld. Same with the paint. Use a flap disc on a 4-5" grinder. Cheap and extremely useful tool.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    241

    Default

    As an aside, I'd suggest practising without using any filler. Get used to the torch on its own before you start the balancing act of a rod in the other hand.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    73
    Posts
    20

    Default

    To All,
    OK so bought a flapper disc and cleaned up the blue painted tubing and a totally different result.

    I'm pleased to say the appearance after removing the blue paint was quite different to the problematic gal square tube
    The flapper disc was impressive at efficiently cleaning the paint and exposing fresh mild steel. Best 8 bucks I've spent.

    The arc started easier, was more controllable and the weld result was much better. The cleaning action of the argon was clear and no ugly deposits.
    And less contamination of the electrode - which is almost used up after numerous sharpenings(!)

    Now I'm back to concentrating on coordination of the arc intensity, weld pool and filler rod action. I still can't feed the filler rod properly but can see significant improvements after the second attempt.

    Thanks for the help:
    Lesson No1 Don't use plated or gal steel for practicing (!)

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    535

    Default

    That thread I linked before has some examples of how much I clean. That's galv (just light duragal like you will have) and you can see that when you clean it the galv part is a little bit grey in comparison to the shiny clean steel. In the first pic you can see how the shiny transitions to polished but matt grey galv and then full untouched dull matt galv. In the second pic you can see I polished the long tube in from each edge almost to the middle but there's a matt grey strip of galv down the middle. That's 50mm x 50mm x 3mm tube, for reference.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. another newbie, with some questions
    By dadrock in forum THE HERCUS AREA
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 16th Dec 2014, 04:16 PM
  2. Newbie with lathe questions
    By loply in forum METALWORK GENERAL
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 29th Apr 2011, 01:17 PM
  3. Newbie says hi :)
    By tribal in forum WELDING
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 8th Mar 2009, 03:45 PM
  4. Newbie here, need a little help
    By raff35 in forum METALWORK GENERAL
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 20th May 2008, 12:11 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •