Thread: Argon

I'll be buying a small Mig in the next few days and want to save on rental. Does anyone in Adelaide sell/refill argon bottles. I can get a C size bottle on ebay for $230 + refill for $70 but was hoping there was someone local who could supply bottle and refills. I only need a small size (C) for welding ally once in a blue moon, for steel I'll just be using flux core.

http://www.power10gases.com.au/pages...lian-retailers
Note that they only fill their own cylinders - smallest is D size

Michael

To be honest, if you are looking to own your cylinder, then it doesn't matter if it's a bit bigger than you need and is sitting around unused - you're not paying rent on it. Also, if you have any decent projects lined up, you'll end up using more gas than you think - even practicing with your new welder you will use a fair bit. Consider a D or E size. Even an E size fits pretty comfortably on a small welding cart.
Also don't forget that 100% argon is mainly for Aluminium MIG. If you're planning to weld steel, then you'll want an Argon/CO2 mix - often called MIG mix, 5/2 mix, etc. Some people go for 100% CO2 for welding mild steel. Anyway - make sure you work out what gas you actually want.
Cheers
- Mick

Went and priced them from one of our local agents in SA today. They stock D & E, they weren't sure whether they would ever stock E2, G or G2 cylinders (it's a new area for them and they don't know much about the gases yet).

The E bottles for TIG & MIG were $499 each (BOC rental for an E cylinder is $220 pa).
Pure argon (TIG) refills are $159 which is about the same as BOC at $162.
Argon mix (MIG) refills are $159 which is 170% of the BOC cost of $95.

So it looks like a no-brainer after a few years even given the extra cost of the MIG gas. Given that I have had at least 2 bottles, and at time 4, from BOC for the last 35 years I shudder to think how much I've contributed to their profits!

My only concern in SA would be if the take up rate is less than stellar and the company decides to withdraw from the local market which would leave us with un-fillable bottles.

That's an interesting conundrum, I think I may look at the ebay seller: $230 and $70 for a refill for a C size. I think if I got anything bigger the bottle would be out of date before my first refill, ally is not an oft worked material in my shed.
Picked up my Mig from Gasweld today along with a stand, I intended asking them if they did buy and swap gases but forgot - new tools tend to prevent lateral thinking I've found. I might try a disposable argon cylinder for my first foray into ally welding, perhaps now I have the means the need may grow, if so I may get a larger D size.

Originally Posted by tonyhothe

I think if I got anything bigger the bottle would be out of date before my first refill

According to their (rather sparse) website, they handle the re-certification of the bottles as they are swapped through the system so it shouldn't be a real issue how long you have the bottle.

As general guide i generally use an E size up 2/3-3/4 of the way through a 5kg roll of wire. Thats at 10l/min and moderate welds, nothing too heavy.

You say you will use flux core for steel, but i think once you try it you will want to use gas. Flux core is a PITA!

I set the Mig up and ran a few beads this morning using flux core, considering it was the first time I'd used it the welds came out fine once I'd worked out feed rate and voltage setting. I really can't see any reason for gas unless I want to weld ally or I lose my wire brush. I was in Total Tools today where I bought a roll of flux core and some tips, they sell bottles and argon gas as well, forgot to ask at Gasweld again??? Next visit maybe I'll remember!

Tony if u havent bought your welder yet take a look in the NSW Aldi pamphlet i seen a nice little MIG welder in there a few days ago

No Aldi in SA, we're still awaiting the introduction of the wireless and horseless carriages here! After deciding on a Unimig KMM180 I surfed the net for the best price and found Gasweld the cheapest at $459 so bought it there (Hafco - $473, ebay - $469). Not the end of the story of course, Total tools don't advertise as selling Unimig but when I dropped in yesterday for something else I found them selling the KMM180 for $429. They also sell a pack of 10 tips for $10, Gasweld sell the same tips - five for $9. Oh for a bit of luck.

The Unimig's range is 30 - 180 amps, not may Migs in this range (cheap) run below 60 amps. Oops, I've let the cat out of the bag I bought a cheap Mig, I'll cop it now!

$430 isnt a cheap welder what people call a cheap welder are the ebay mig's that sell for $120, your new welder comes with 2 years warranty that's a year more than unimig have to supply so they'll stand by there product

i like the KKM180 i came so close to buying one because it has the optional spool gun for welding aluminium the other two options were a bossweld which also came with the option of spool gun but i went with a LOTOS mig with free spool gun, the mig is but the spool gun welds aluminium beautifully

Depends on what you are comparing it with: I would have preferred the Lincoln 180, but at $990 it was a little out of my budget so made the Unimig seem cheap. Comparing the cheaper $200 - $300 Migs to the Unimig is similar. The Unimig sits somewhere in the middle, but most importantly it gets good reviews.

Originally Posted by Gavin Newman

from BOC for the last 35 years I shudder to think how much I've contributed to their profits!

I took the plunge a couple of months back. Took my bottle back to BOC a week or so ago.... I am now BOC free!!!!!!!!!!!!(and hope to stay that way, fingers crossed)

Is a 180amp 10% welder going to be able to do much Alum welding? With the money I'm saving on rental I'm thinking about getting a TIG, I've never used Alum on my MIG.

Stuart

Depends on what you want to weld I suppose. I won't be welding ally fishing boats any time soon, just the occasional bit of ally - possibly. I have three welders, I've never used any of them at anywhere near max output, I'd be lucky if I got to half the max output these days, most of my welding now is small light gauge stuff so yes I think a 180 amp Mig will be more than sufficient - horses for courses!

Originally Posted by tonyhothe

Depends on what you want to weld I suppose. I won't be welding ally fishing boats any time soon, just the occasional bit of ally - possibly. I have three welders, I've never used any of them at anywhere near max output, I'd be lucky if I got to half the max output these days, most of my welding now is small light gauge stuff so yes I think a 180 amp Mig will be more than sufficient - horses for courses!

An honest question meant to help. Have you welded much aluminium? I suspect that your experience may be a bit limited, so I'll put forward a couple of bits of info that may help. Argon flow rate for mig welding aluminium will be around the 20 LPM mark, so a C or even D size cylinder will run out really quickly and the disposable will offer around 4 minutes arc time. Not much is it. A 180A mig will handle ally up to 4mm reasonably well, 6mm if it really has to. Aluminium demands power and you cannot cheat to the same degree as you can with steel. I reckon you will spend more time above 120A than you will below. Your duty cycle of 10%, probably based on a 5 minute cycle will prove a real issue if welding 4mm+ ally and will probably prove reasonably adequate for 2-3mm, although welding 2mm ally with a straight mig is a challenge for even experienced boilys.
No doubt about it, a 180A mig can weld ally and as long as you recognise and can live with the limitations of a low duty cycle you should be able to produce some reasonable ally welds.