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  1. #1
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    Default Earth moving machinery repair recommendations required

    G'day.

    This is the shaft off a ball joint on the 3 point linkage draw bar for a tractor drawn grader.

    It has been welded up twice with a stick welder & some old high tensile rods but the weld breaks at the point of contact with the metal.

    The rods are old, the packet was opened several years ago, they are crap to use, hard to strike an arc till they warm up & then they start to stick once they are hot.

    Can somebody please recommend rods for this job?

    Thanks.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Cliff.
    ...if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail...

  2. #2
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    May 2011
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    Murray Bridge S Aust.
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    Default

    Hi Cliff, do you know what the rods you used were? Were the rods dry, laying about for a while, they will draw in moisture, either laying in the sun or preferably putting them in an oven to dry, works. Was the steel pre heated before welding commenced and was it allowed to cool down slowly? Just asking, as these need to be known, as it could be operator failure, not saying anything about you, not rod failure. Also more of a chamfer to the centre would help also IMHO.
    Regards
    Kryn

  3. #3
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    Sep 2010
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    Default

    Best advice I can give is to take the old electrodes, paint them green and throw them in long grass. In summer, paint them a straw colour.
    Putting electrodes in the sun will not bring them back to original specification. Sorry if I've stepped on anyone's toes there.
    Reconditioning instructions usually call for temperatures around 260 degrees Celsius or there about.
    Definitely preheat to at least a hot hand temperature, definitely bevel a bit more and definitely cool slowly.
    How did the last two welding attempts fail? Breaking out of parent metal normally suggests insufficient preheat, while breaking through the weld points towards too small a weld or the wrong consumable.
    I would suggest either WIA 16TC's or Ferrocraft 16 Twincoat as user friendly electrodes that perform well. DO NOT MIG it with SOLID WIRE.
    One final point. Are these both original components? If not, be aware that some grades of steel are problematic when welded, 4140 is one that comes to mind.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Stupid forum... I just typed a bloody great big long reply & it had a error while posting & lost everything.

    The rods were old.

    The metal was only sun hot.

    The weld broke without tearing out any metal.

    I don't know if it was original or not, it was a towed grader that has been modified from a 4 wheel device to a 2 wheel device that no longer requires 2 men to operate it.

    A bit like this one only much older.

    Cliff.
    ...if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail...

  5. #5
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    Default

    A pack of Low Hydrogen 2.5mm rods will cost about $55 & I'll never use them all.

    I need to find somebody who sells sample packs.
    Cliff.
    ...if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail...

  6. #6
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    Aug 2011
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    Murrumbateman
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    Default

    Is some of the shaft down near your new weld going to be unencumbered when re-assembled on the machine? If so, you might get a lot of extra strength by welding on some right angled triangular say 10mm flat plate as braces at right angles to the shaft and extending up the shaft edge at least 20mm and out to the edge of the shiny bit of the base plate. I call them bracing fillets - not sure what the technical term is. The weld that is near the centre of the shaft won't give you much strength but any material you can have at a good distance from the centre of the end of the shaft will be good value.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmer Geoff View Post
    I call them bracing fillets - not sure what the technical term is.
    Gussets?

  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Robbers View Post
    Best advice I can give is to take the old electrodes, paint them green and throw them in long grass. In summer, paint them a straw colour.
    Putting electrodes in the sun will not bring them back to original specification. Sorry if I've stepped on anyone's toes there.
    Reconditioning instructions usually call for temperatures around 260 degrees Celsius or there about.
    Definitely preheat to at least a hot hand temperature, definitely bevel a bit more and definitely cool slowly.
    How did the last two welding attempts fail? Breaking out of parent metal normally suggests insufficient preheat, while breaking through the weld points towards too small a weld or the wrong consumable.
    I would suggest either WIA 16TC's or Ferrocraft 16 Twincoat as user friendly electrodes that perform well. DO NOT MIG it with SOLID WIRE.
    One final point. Are these both original components? If not, be aware that some grades of steel are problematic when welded, 4140 is one that comes to mind.
    Karl, you're not stepping on anyone's toes Just something I got told, didn't think it would be hot enough down here, but in Qld maybe.
    Kryn

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Robbers View Post
    ...
    I would suggest either WIA 16TC's or Ferrocraft 16 Twincoat as user friendly electrodes that perform well. ....
    I have been into 8 different places in Malanda & Atherton & everybody has 6013 rods to burn, mountains of them, mostly Satincraft.
    I found one place that had a packet of Ferrocraft 16 Twincoat but the plastic on it was yellow & it had been opened & then taped shut again & even the tape had gone yellow, I left them there.
    I found one shop that had a pack of WIA Austarc 16TC & the plastic packet on it was very old & beat up & they wanted $82 for the pack... I reckon they will die with that pack of rods still in stock.

    One shop had a smaller pack of Cigweld 7018 2.5mm for $35 & the plastic wrapper looks clear & still sealed but the Cigweld site doesn't show them as a current item so I don't know how old they might be..

    I think I'll get something in Cairns next week.
    Cliff.
    ...if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail...

  10. #10
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    Default

    You could get some online.

    E.g. bobthewelder is popular and these look OK for your application:

    http://www.bobthewelder.com.au/produ...cat=153&page=1
    http://www.kobewelding.com.sg/Techni...t/LB-52-18.pdf

  11. #11
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    Default

    Ta, Global has them even cheaper.
    http://www.globalweldingsupplies.com...2mm-p-261.html

    Has anybody tried the Hyundai 7016 rods?
    http://www.hyundaiwelding.com/downlo...R/S-7016.H.pdf
    Cliff.
    ...if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail...

  12. #12
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    Wow, that is a red hot price on the LB52-18's from Global Welding. Kobe's are top notch electrodes too.
    I would also have full confidence in any Hyundai consumable as Hyundai are a very large industrial entity and have worked in the upper echelons for many years as well as owning and operating the world's largest shipyard.
    What type of welder will you be running these on? WIA 16TC's and the Ferrocraft 16 twincoats are by far easier to run than the other Low Hydrogen electrode types, but if your welder is either DC or 70V+ OCV AC then you will be fine with the other types.
    You were quite correct in declining the previously opened electrodes as they became an unknown quantity as soon as they were opened.
    While not adequate for coded work, I generally store Low Hydrogen electrodes near my hot water cylinder as this provides a warm environment that is somewhat drier than ambient air.

  13. #13
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    I have a Jasic 250 like this Unimig.
    http://www.unimig.com.au/userfiles/f...MMA_Manual.pdf
    Cliff.
    ...if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail...

  14. #14
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    Default Good idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Robbers View Post
    You were quite correct in declining the previously opened electrodes as they became an unknown quantity as soon as they were opened.
    While not adequate for coded work, I generally store Low Hydrogen electrodes near my hot water cylinder as this provides a warm environment that is somewhat drier than ambient air.
    That is a great idea. I have a rack above my HWS for drying shoes etc,. A bit of a modification, and my small supply of rods will have a new home.

    Alan...

  15. #15
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Robbers View Post
    Wow, that is a red hot price on the LB52-18's from Global Welding.... .
    Trouble is that they want $42.50 for freight on one box.
    Cliff.
    ...if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail...

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