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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    429

    Default

    The other problem with welding gal parts is, that all to often people think they have ground the gal' off....but all they have done is ground the gal'...but not completely off.

    ya have to look for the colour change gal or zinc will be a different shade of grey to the steel.

    cheers
    Any thing with sharp teeth eats meat.
    Most powertools have sharp teeth.
    People are made of meat.
    Abrasives can be just as dangerous as a blade.....and 10 times more painfull.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    288

    Default Success at last

    Well, I got the new hinges on today, all good this time.

    The existing hinges were trashed, I had to get new ones. I went for a drive and got the Downee ones I originally wanted. About the same price as the Zenith hinges from the chainstores, but they have a much smoother feel. They are plated not hot-dipped. That's fine here in Canberra, it's neither humid nor salty, they will last fine.

    As per recommendations from you guys, I ground off the zinc plating around the edges and on the back (I just ground a margin of about 6mm, not the whole back) of the hinges, and ground the gate frame and posts where the hinge welds would go. I was careful that I ground right through the zinc coating. So this time I was welding steel on steel, no zinc in the mix.

    Picked up my electrode and had a go. Same current as on my first hinges (about 65A @ 45V, 2.5mm sticks). Looks like I got my mojo back. Good welds this time. Ok, in the bright sunlight I kind of lost my way a couple of times due to not seeing anything, and occasional slag entrapments just to flag my mediocre skill level to the discerning gate user, but all good enough. Some good runs, and certainly the bond is there. Also, this time, the zinc inside the hinge cylinder hasn't fused to the hinge pin like happened on the first set. So strong welds, and a smoothly swinging gate.

    Thanks to those here who helped me out. Woodwork Forums is a great thing.

    Ian

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    493

    Default

    So now it is total success!
    Ha ha
    Civilized man is the only animal clever enough to manufacture its own food,
    and the only animal stupid enough to eat it.
    Barry Groves

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnaduit View Post
    - but it's almost as if the hinge metal was repelling the molten puddle.

    Of course its easier to blame the product than blame my skills, but I do wonder if there was something about the hinges - as in, I'm sure a pro could weld anything, but maybe there was something about the hinge metal that defeated a mediocre performer like me.
    Without pics it is hard to tell,but it sounds like most of the job parameters were lined up against you.

    Don't fret too much,These hinges are likely heavily hot dipped galvanised and can be an absolute plik to weld,even for for the best of us.

    Add to this the gate post, probably galvanised or duragal and immovably fixed vertically into the ground you are left to do a vertical up or down weld with a difficult set of parameters.

    The gal is gasifying within the molten arc and the slag is pouring into the open gas bubble,hence the grief.

    Being heavily gal coated the hinges should be dressed back to shiny clean steel along the edges to be welded,as should the post weld contact surface itself.

    A vertical up weld if you not used to doing them can turn to poo real quick on gal work, particularly on thin plate thickness of the hinge and the gate.

    The "old" welder sounds like it may be an arc transformer job- AC output- again with the set of conditions you are experiencing already - not ideal.Good on heavier thickness , but a nearly an explosive arc start blows the bejesus of the thin wall duragal.

    The welding technique could be a vertical up bead - but use dab and stop ,let semi cool and dab again and repeat until completed.
    I have found while it doesn't completely deal with the galvanising gas bubbles is does improve upon it,a lot.

    Alternately a vertical down could be used and if it is ,I would go something like 110 amps on 2.6 electrode and run down on very short arc keeping the electrode angle about maybe 30 degrees off the vertical.Travel down pretty quick - much faster than usual.

    Do some practices on some similar steel in the same position and I am sure things will get better for you, Also if possible get a fan behind you or a stiff breeze .Inhaling the weld fume can make you a very sick welder.

    Good luck with the next attempt and let us know how you fare.

    Grahame

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    288

    Default

    Grahame, you are right, my welder is a 30 year old 160A Champion AC welder - the type with the big heavy iron core.

    It was hard to do the vertical welds, but still I got a far, far better result when I ground off all the gal on both post and hinge.

    I returned the original totally buggered hinges to Masters Hardware with a letter where I said the instructions should have included grinding off the gal. They accepted the reason and refunded my money.

    And just to follow up, here's some pics of the finished result. I already painted the welds with cold gal - not to hide my work, but because I had to paint before I attached the timber slats. But as you can see my welds are lumpy and won't win any prize. Still, they have penetration and are strong enough.

    Now I "just" have to do the paving and the retaining wall and I'm done with that area.

    87 KC gate front lr.JPG87 KC gate hinge lr.JPG87 KC gate rear lr.JPG

    Ian

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,322

    Default

    End result looks very nice.

    Don't quite get the cutout bit down the bottom that seems to be designed to allow for a pile of loosely-stacked bricks

    Are they there in case you've lost your keys and need to get in?

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    288

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    End result looks very nice.

    Don't quite get the cutout bit down the bottom that seems to be designed to allow for a pile of loosely-stacked bricks

    Are they there in case you've lost your keys and need to get in?
    Heh, maybe that's a good idea - its true, we have to think of a new spot for the hidden spare key. But no, the cutout is where the retaining wall has to go through. Easier to make the gate than make a retaining wall, hence gate got done first. Still procrastinating on the wall. Loose bricks at least block the odd dog or very large cat.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,322

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnaduit View Post
    we have to think of a new spot for the hidden spare key
    I was thinking of the brick as an access tool in itself.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ballina, NSW
    Posts
    900

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnaduit View Post
    And just to follow up, here's some pics of the finished result. I already painted the welds with cold gal - not to hide my work, but because I had to paint before I attached the timber slats.
    Nice work Ian, that Merbau comes up a treat and the welds will do the job - just curious on what you used for attaching the slats to your frame? What will the retaining wall be made from? Just curious as I've just done a retaining wall (treated pine, nothing special) and next job is a few gates (tossing up between something like yours or maybe some merbau slats on a fancy stainless frame).
    Cheers
    - Mick

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    535

    Default

    I've done a similar thing lately. I welded a frame then welded in two vertical pieces of 30mm x 3mm angle on the inside of the frame and bolted the timber slats to that.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    288

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WelderMick View Post
    Nice work Ian, that Merbau comes up a treat and the welds will do the job - just curious on what you used for attaching the slats to your frame? What will the retaining wall be made from? Just curious as I've just done a retaining wall (treated pine, nothing special) and next job is a few gates (tossing up between something like yours or maybe some merbau slats on a fancy stainless frame).
    Cheers
    - Mick
    Been away on a job, so haven't looked in for a few days.

    Mick, I used gal-coated wing-tipped countersunk Tek screws: https://www.masters.com.au/product/9...10gx40mm-500pk

    Actually these did not save any time as I had hoped - I found that I still had to drill and countersink each hole first, so the self-drilling, ribbed head thing was wasted. I could have used a more basic, cheaper tek screw.

    Yeah I think the merbau worked out well. I got a lot of it that had been in the Brisbane floods and all the tannin had leached out, leaving unsightly patches on the board surface. When it rains, it all dissolves and disappears. But it couldn't be sold retail without a huge discount ...

    The retaining wall along my property boundary (that's the one that I made provision for in the gate fence frame) is igneous quarry rock. It was cheap - direct from the quarry - but not a flat face on any of it. I find it very difficult to use. Hence the procrastination. But when I get back, I'll have to just do it, and just accept it won't be the beaut job that I had imagined at first.
    Ian

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