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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    241

    Default Some TIG machine clarification please

    Hi guys,

    I'm currently tossing up the thought of finally treating myself to a cheap AC/DC TIG welder, and there's one at a great price which only lacks a couple of features that the more expensive unit contains. Having next to no experience with a TIG, I was wondering if I could get some clarification, and some feedback as to what would be typically used more, whether it's worthwhile etc.

    The bargain machine's list of features is as follows:

    Multifunction: Tig Ac/Dc, Tig Dc, Stick/MMA
    Foot pedal Control: Foot controller for those precision required applications (Included)
    Extended Ac Balance Control: Adjust the balance between penetration and cleaning for Aluminium
    Pre & Post Flow: Prevent oxidation of weld metal by pre and post gas flow
    Advanced Squarewave: Improves weldability with excellent puddle control
    High Frequency Start: Non-Contact Tig arc starting

    The next unit up sings about all of that, with these extra capabilities:

    Pulsing: Reduce heat input & distortion when welding thin metals
    Down Slope: Slope down the amperage to prevent crater cracking
    2T & 4T Trigger Latching: Use when welding for long periods of time

    As a beginner (Who genuinely wishes to pursue a career in welding, oh to find a mature age apprenticeship) would I potentially have need of these features? Or are they more "nice to have" for when you've done it long enough, understand what's happening, and it's nice to let the machine do that bit of hard work for you (ie can be replicated with technique).

    Mild steel is my primary metal, with the obvious wish to build knowledge and skill with aluminium and stainless.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ballina, NSW
    Posts
    900

    Default

    The base model features are all good. Be aware that you pay a lot more for an ACDC tig than just a straight DC. So you're paying extra for the capability to do aluminium.
    The only feature that I would consider worth the upgraded model would be the downslope function, but this is redundant if you end up using the foot pedal all the time. (I use mine about 50% of the time).
    2T/4T is not worth anything in my book
    Pulsing is something that I don't use much at all, but others find it useful. Read the recent thread on 5yr review on chinese tig welders where some of this is discussed
    Cheers
    - Mick

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Lebrina
    Posts
    1,910

    Default

    Just to give us a little more to go on. What brand are these machines.
    If the prices are not too far apart, I would go for the machine with pulse capability, however I would be equally happy to go for the non pulse if there was too great a difference.
    I have done a fair bit of tig work ranging from mild steel through to copper, stainless, ally and even titanium and to be honest have only ever used pulse on thin stainless, even then it could have been done without.
    Your crater filling can be handled a couple of ways. One is to use the pedal and ease up gradually, another is to let off the trigger and then back on briefly a couple of times while adding a little filler to cool the puddle.
    Fiddly work such as repairing intercooler leaks and such, I would never use the 4T mode as when you want to stop the arc, you want it in a hurry, not after a couple of button pushes.
    Whatever machine you purchase, make sure it takes readily available consumables. Another forum member had no end of trouble with a Mishto branded machine where consumables had to be sourced from China or mail ordered from WA. The range of consumables was really poor too.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    241

    Default

    Cheers guys!

    I'll have a dig through the old thread, it was Brendan's 5 years on thread that gave me a confidence boost in purchasing a cheapie.

    The brand is Weldsmart, handily located 15 minutes from my place.
    The price difference is at least $200, possibly more if I can arrange to pick up the cheaper machine.
    Machines are:
    Cheaper Weldsmart 200 AMP AC DC Inverter TIG Stick Welder ARC Welding AC DC MMA | eBay
    More features Weldsmart 200A AC DC TIG MMA Pulse Welder Inverter AC DC Welding ARC Aluminium | eBay

    The first one doesn't appear on their website, hence the eBay links.
    At <$700, I like to think the first one would be a decent starter machine which wouldn't feel too painful if I outgrew it quickly. The other one, at close to $1k, I'd most likely shop around and stretch the budget to get something better.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    133

    Default

    If you scroll through, you will find a thread that compliments sellers of their support. My first Mig unit was a totally wrong buy, my first Tig was full of issues. I looked around more and put in that extra little bit and got stuff I know would be supported. Some offer 12 months, some 5 yrs warranty.

    I personally would put in another $200 and get something that has a warranty that will outlast your time before you upgrade. Just my two cents.

    Alan

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Lebrina
    Posts
    1,910

    Default

    Despite the fact that I am not a great pulse user, if faced with the choice, I would go for welder number 2, the pulse model. If you intend doing a bit of stick work, it will be superior due to a higher open circuit voltage, (61 versus 51 volts), thus making an arc easier to strike. It also has adjustable arc force.
    The 18 month warranty is not too bad and weldsmart seem to have been around for a while. Torch seems to be a standard WP 26 torch, so consumables won't be an issue. I know of a couple of similar machines with the Jasic brand that have been used in an industrial sheet metal business for nearly 10 years with few issues.
    I notice that the machine is going for $864 at present, so it could be a good buy if you can pick it up and thus save on postage.
    The next step is the $13-1400 range to gain an extra 3 1/2 year warranty.
    I would be tempted to gamble on the weldsmart for your usage. You should recover at least 60-70% of your purchase price if you sell it at a later stage and decide to upgrade.
    To save even more of course, you could opt for a DC only machine with lift arc, which would do all you want with the exception of ally and magnesium materials.
    Beware that a 200A 240V tig will suck the juice and a good power supply is a must in order to run it at that output level.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    535

    Default

    As Karl says, there are a lot of other costs to watch out for. Those machines both look like they need 25A supplies. Gas costs a fortune. All the consumables add up. I'll also echo to make sure it supports standard consumables/parts. It would suck to be stuck with proprietary, hard to find stuff.

    I jumped into tig last year but instead of getting a new Chinese machine I happened to find a secondhand American one for half price with only one hour and 23 minutes use. Ok half price was still a lot more than you're considering, but if you're not in a hurry keep your eyes on gumtree and ebay.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    241

    Default

    Heh, it almost feels like a subtle sign that the more expensive machine has had a sale price put on it since I started this thread.

    Time is mercifully on my side - Any purchase would be held off on until the magical tax return (And also in part dependent on the size of the return).
    Gas, heh, I've still got my bottle of argoshield even though I sold my MIG off more than a few months ago, which had seen very little use on top of that. If anybody in Perth has a method of decanting bottles, you're welcome to drain mine before I get around to returning it/replacing it with straight argon.
    Didn't clue onto the 25a draw. I'm going to guess that a 15a socket isn't right, so that'd have to be looked at.

    I may have to start looking around for a 3 phase machine, if I could land one for a really nice price, it would be enough to make me get the connection completed (Appears to be 3ph to my mains board, and a 3ph cable has been run to the shed, but just no connection in between the two)

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