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Thread: Welding Newbie

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Fatigue View Post
    My welder arrived today. Haven't fired it up yet but the Amp control knob feels/sounds like it's dragging when turned. Like it's hard up against something.

    Going to give Tokentools a call about it tomorrow but from what I've seen they're pretty good with customer service so I'm not too worried yet.


    Other than that, it was well packed, nothing was missing, and it got here pretty quick.

    Also should have 15 amp power hooked up soon. I'm looking forward to seeing what I can blow holes through
    Hi, just to clarify for folks. If it's one of the ACDC tigs the main amps knob is a wire wound pot so has a fluid like resistance when turning (softer feel). Wire wound pots are more robust and better than carbon track pots that blow easily.

    If it is one of the digital migs then it has a rotary encoder that clicks every few degrees as it sends a signal to ident it's position.

    I haven't been here for a while, I was researching the Syil X4 CNC mill and thought I'd pop in and see what was new in the world of welding on the WW forum.

    Cheers
    Pete
    (tokentools)

  2. #17
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    Hi Pete, I spoke to you about that on the phone I think. All good, mate.



    Anyway, I knocked over some of the theory today for TAFE. Metal properties, grain structure etc.

    Very interesting topic which I enjoyed reading/learning about. There's a lot more to it than I realised.

    Looking forward to this weeks class.

  3. #18
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    Hi guys, not wanting to hijack this thread, but I have a related question...

    I've got a one-off welding project (welding 10mmx70mm flat bar deck rails to C-cross section framing), and I'm thinking it might be a good excuse to learn to weld (and obviously accumulate more tools!).

    If I do it myself, am I headed toward a world of pain and regret? If I had to do a TAFE class I think the time commitment would lead me to contracting out the job.

  4. #19
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    If you don't have the patience for a TAFE class then spending a couple of hours, or even half an hour with a pro welder (the person not the machine) will at least get you started. Then having access to someone who can critique your welds is useful to making improvements. You can of course always post them on here

    I did a 2 hour a week TAFE night school welding class for 12 weeks back in the 1970's in a country town high school metal work shop. Although I remember spending most of my time unsticking the rod from the weld, overall it was still pretty useful, but it still didn't provide enough time for practice so by the time I bought my own welder a few years later I had forgotten a fair bit but I recovered some basic skills after a couple of years. The person I have learnt the most from is my BIL who has been a boilermaker for 40 years. I reckon I learned more from him in half an hours than the 12 week night school class. BIL's a natural teacher and is able to analyse what the student is doing wrong/right and gives superb feedback. Even better 3 years ago he indefinitely loaned me a sweet little $1000 welder which I have run a lot of rods through.

  5. #20
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    Yeah, my sense of the TAFE intro class is that you don't actually get much time on the tools. I'm thinking that I might get a fair start by spending an evening or two watching youtube video tutorials, then spend a week torturing a length of steel while sending pics to the forum for gentle critiquing.

    Is there an accepted method of testing the strength of a T-joint? Aside from ugly welds my only concern is the welds cracking and sending my drunk friends to their deaths.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen H View Post
    Hi guys, not wanting to hijack this thread, but I have a related question...

    I've got a one-off welding project (welding 10mmx70mm flat bar deck rails to C-cross section framing), and I'm thinking it might be a good excuse to learn to weld (and obviously accumulate more tools!).

    If I do it myself, am I headed toward a world of pain and regret? If I had to do a TAFE class I think the time commitment would lead me to contracting out the job.
    Hi Stephen
    There have been a number of people on this very metalworking forum who have done what you speak of -started from scratch with no Tafe involvement and achieved good results.
    Tafe can be unsuitable to for many people for many reasons.

    As some one who wants to learn to weld to a reasonable standard-usually an industrial standard-you cannot do it on a cheapy half arrrrsed equipment.
    The kicker is you want to do this work on a reasonable but cost effective budget.

    Welding technology has made some big advances over the years and has made practical welding very much easier to learn by means of inverter welding machines and the advent of the electronic auto darkening welding helmet.
    Avoid the trap of thief Bay in buying and stick to recognized brands. a half arrsed ebay bargain welder is not going to give you desirable results.

    If you intend welding heavy section ( 70 x10mm thick to C channel is starting to get up there) - I would recommend a 15 amp outlet for your welder as you will need 150 plus amps and the normal 10 GPO is badly stretched to provide.

    By means of a moderately priced digital camera which can do macro shots you can take pics of your practice efforts and people here can and will offer you feedback.

    I have no affiliation with them but Token tools has been mentioned on this forums many times and never had any bad reports.They offer machines that have a great guarantee,good design and CAN be repaired in the unlikely event of a failure.
    Again there are plenty of blokes here to offer constructive feedback on your welding efforts and who also have the experience to offer advice on the theory side.
    Grahame

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen H View Post
    Yeah, my sense of the TAFE intro class is that you don't actually get much time on the tools. I'm thinking that I might get a fair start by spending an evening or two watching youtube video tutorials, then spend a week torturing a length of steel while sending pics to the forum for gentle critiquing.

    Is there an accepted method of testing the strength of a T-joint?
    I will answer that from the point of view of a Tafe lecturer.We would never let students into the workshop- a dangerous place full of liabilities- until they grasped the safety requirements and and had an idea of the why of welding.

    By all means watch some U tube stuff - some are really good- but there are some amateur instructors really talk a load of rubbish.


    A sample short -say 75 long - tee piece can be tested be holding one leg in a vice and beating the other leg with a BFH to fracture the bead.A visual inspection of the broken bead will tell you lots.

    Out of respect for the original poster I will start a new thread on this Ok.

    Grahame

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahame Collins View Post
    I will answer that from the point of view of a Tafe lecturer.We would never let students into the workshop- a dangerous place full of liabilities- until they grasped the safety requirements and and had an idea of the why of welding.
    No criticism intended - I understand where TAfe is coming from and the old days of she'll-be-good-enough are well and truly gone.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahame Collins View Post
    A sample short -say 75 long - tee piece can be tested be holding one leg in a vice and beating the other leg with a BFH to fracture the bead.A visual inspection of the broken bead will tell you lots.

    Out of respect for the original poster I will start a new thread on this Ok.
    That sounds like an interesting thread - there are lots of images of good beads and bad beads, but not much about the clues to look for in diagnosing a broken bead.

  10. #25
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen H View Post
    Yeah, my sense of the TAFE intro class is that you don't actually get much time on the tools. . . . . . . .
    This was the 1970's so safety was done on the fly and within half an hour we were making spatter on scrap steel.
    We spent most of our time on simple projects. Some students just farted around on scrap but I remember getting quite a lot done.
    I made
    - a disc plough BBQ (using discs for the base, fire tray and grill)
    - a 4 wheeled base for a set of drawers, out of 25 x 25 x 3 mm angle
    - a set of car ramps, I used 50 x 50 x 5mm steel angle, gusseted and braced so much I could barely lift one, you could have driven a truck up on them.
    - a set of adjustable beefy car stands from an ACRO prop threaded foot.

    I doubt you could do all this in a 12 week course these days, and my guess is they wouldn't let you make some of those things anyway.
    The main problem with the course was access to the teacher who was often too busy doing his own projects.

  11. #26
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    These days I doubt they'd let you do anything but the drawer wheels. The others would risk liability for you burning down a house or crushing someone.

    Its safety all the way now. Just this arvo I was informed that school kids aren't allowed to swap/share food at lunch time due to the horrendous safety risks.

  12. #27
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    As a kid in high school I made a big set of car ramps - nice and wide to fit something big and heavy on, I also made a high swivel stool - never really used them and probably sold them or gave them away... too many years ago to remember. The welds were probably OK, but jeeez I was just a kid. One kid made an engine hoist and I remember joking with him about how 'at least the slag fills in the gaps'. All were our own designs. Now I'm wiser I can't help think how irresponsible those projects were given our engineering design experience (none) welding experience at that point (none) and the poor inspection (projects were painted before marking).

    I think with TAFE you've got to demonstrate that you're the full quid and can master the basics early on. Then you'll have all the arc time you want while the teacher tries to sort out the latecomers, etc.

  13. #28
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    There are quite a few reasons why TAFE night courses are not as attractive as they once were.

    What potential night course students and the public don't realize is that for a decade or so, TAFE's and even high schools have been very quick to drop liability straight back on the individual teacher. At one time it was a great thing for a student to go home with a set of car ramps or jack stands.

    At that time ,no one envisaged that some one might park a 5 ton vehicle on 1 ton jack stands. This happened and most of the desirable projects disappeared . Even the ubiquitous folding step ladder if produced at all, now goes home under the signed agreement and understanding that is a "model" and not actually for use. Therefore when the 200kg person climbs on it and the unit fails - no liability.

    Its bloody hard to get the level of class engagement required to pick required up skills and knowledge without really attractive hands on projects. Its the difference in having your students line up at the door waiting to get in and engaged with the work and having some of them just not turn up at all.

    Students do not appreciate doing the work on a project test pieces alone to just chuck them in the bin and having nothing to take home.


    The other reason is that with the ever decreasing budget constrictions imposed on TAFE and practical project work just gets continues to get less and less available funding. Talk about doing the impossible with nothing.

    The level of Quals available in the "teaching" staff.

    A lot of the staff where I worked are not even uni trained teachers but industry trades persons with a Certificate gained in 12 weeks.The people that held the extra post trade certs and Uni quals to make courses really interesting and attractive are back in industry where the money is. The majority of the Uni trained teachers with Diplomas and Bachelor Certs have retired or moved to industry. The people remaining have in many cases neither the experience or knowledge to write up up a course and make it attractive for student participation.

    Theres much more to this but thats enough for now

    Grahame

  14. #29
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    You hit the nail on the head perfectly.
    TAFE has had the guts ripped out of it. Apparently an ex Prime Minister with notably bushy eyebrows hatedxTAFE with a passion and did his level best to emasculate the TAFE system.
    Anyway, night courses are fewer due to costs, pre voc courses have become a dumping ground and many experienced teachers have had a gut full and left due to bum licking bureaucrats and chronic understaffing.
    A true shame as I look back on my TAFE days with great fondness and count my teachers as lifelong mates.
    Still a good way to learn. If you show interest, the teachers will really go the extra mile in my experience.

  15. #30
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    Hi all, haven't been here for a bit.
    During the intro course I did we got a fair bit of time doing practical, but the theory took up some of the time as well.

    The current course I'm doing has us studying on our own time and only doing the theory tests at TAFE. The rest of the time is spent welding.

    It may not be the same everywhere but it's been good so far and I'd still recommend the course to anyone looking to get into it, but given the cost I guess it would depend on where you want to go with it.
    We don't get to make specific things though, just joining pieces using different welds.


    I had my first go at stainless TIG last week. Wasn't too bad for a first attempt.

    Cheers

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