Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Needs Pictures Needs Pictures:  0
Picture(s) thanks Picture(s) thanks:  0
Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    155

    Default What difference will I notice with an inverter mig

    I've had a 3 phase Cigweld 330SE for about 14 years but I'd like a cute little mig welder I can carry round in my handbag

    Would also be nice having 0.6mm capability too. I see there's little transformer type migs and little inverter type migs.

    Having bought a little 170 amp Unimig DC inverter stick welder, I was very impressed with arc starting, smoothness, etc. Heaps more grunt and welding capability than my hunking heavy 140 amp buzzbox, and so cute and lightweight. My old buzzbox just sits there now looking all rejected.

    Would the same apply to inverter mig welders, would I get better mig arc characteristics like I do with my inverter stick welder. Is the arc smoother with less spatter than a transformer type. Any reasons not to go the inverter route. Much difference between say a Rossi 185 amp and a higher quality brand which might cost 3 times the price.

    Keith.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Lebrina
    Posts
    1,910

    Default

    I notice you want to be able to run .6mm wire. That tells me you want to do fine work, fine work is best served by a quality unit in my humble opinion.
    The only inverter Mig I have used was a Fronius 270 pulse mig, so I can't really offer much real world experience on that subject.
    Which ever unit you choose, make sure it has a Euro connection for the gun and a good solid wire feed unit.
    You won't notice the same dramatic leap in performance as you did with the jump to the DC inverter stick welder. Most of what you have noticed is purely because you have changed from AC to DC current. Whether that DC current came from an inverter, a DC generator or a transformer/ rectifier machine, the result would have been the same, although I wouldn't like to try to carry my Lincoln SAE600 over my shoulder. That's where inverter sticks shine. Once again, less of an advantage with a mig, which still has wire feed etc adding to the weight.
    The big problem with buying ebay welders and similar is that you cannot try before you buy. I would not buy a welder that I had not trialled in some way, be it using a similar unit elsewhere or physically running said welder. All welders are not created equal. I have not found a Uni Mig mig welder that I have bonded with yet although I know many people like them here. The sweetest little Mig I have ever used is my National Panasonic Single Auto 180. That welder will run .9 ES6 wire with CO2 better than many comparable migs will with Argoshield.
    Moral of the story, try before you buy and know what you want to achieve up front, any welder run at the upper ends of the range, the bottom is where it counts.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    155

    Default

    Thanks very much Karl,

    I'm guessing a lot of Unimig owners are happy because they don't know any different. Maybe I could have a taste of a top end DC Stick inverter and I wouldn't look at my Unimig the same. Coming from that crappy buzzbox though the difference was night and day. I've used 6011 rods a bit since getting my stick inverter and noticed they can be temperamental with starting / maintaining an arc. Apparently some of the higher end inverters have a separate setting specifically for cellulose rods (love those 6011s for rusty junk welding).

    I've only done quite thin stuff occasionally and that was done with my 330SE with 0.9mm wire and the power turned right down. Still like hitting a fly with a sledgehammer so it would be nice to have a small unit handy for that sort of stuff. It wasn't a pretty weld but I patched up a rusted through exhaust muffler some time back. I'm sure that paper thin metal was vapourising before the wire had even touched it LOL. 0.6mm wire would make that sort of thing a little bit easier.

    I'll check out that model you mentioned.

    Cheers,

    Keith.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Lebrina
    Posts
    1,910

    Default

    If you mean to look at a National then you will have a real search on your hands. They don't sell them anymore. They were an upper high end machine in their day and consequently there were not large numbers sold. Way back when, (late 80's, early '90's)you could get a Migomag 220 for about $2200, the National 180 was Near $5000 and its sister machine, an OTC, was nudging $12000!
    There are only three that I know of in Tasmania, including mine and I actually know the owners of the other two. Whenever anyone looks too closely at our Nationals, we all bare our teeth and snarl
    Migomag Welding Machines I'd be quite keen to have a look at one of these. The little Migomag transformer migs always ran nicely and were tough little blighters. Not sure about pricing. 19KG for 220A seems pretty good and it will take a 15KG spool too! Many of the little welders are 4.5KG only, probably only a real issue if you want to run the more expensive wires like ally or stainless on both your migs, but a nice feature just the same.
    I suggest that you try which ever welder you are interested in before you buy, concentrating on the lower settings.
    I will not buy an unknown welder, (characteristics, not brand). Anyone who wants to sell you a welder but won't let you try it has something to hide in my opinion.
    Unimig may well have lifted their game. It's been a couple of years since I played with one in anger.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,322

    Default

    I see Rossi machines being flogged all over Ebay, but have never heard from anyone who has used one. They're also sold by AGR Machinery, one of the dodgiest sellers on Ebay, which in itself should be a pretty good reason to avoid them.

    If you're willing to spend a bit more there's plenty of choice in the $900 or so bracket, from UniMIG, CIG, Lincoln, Tokentools etc. for most of these machines, you'll find reviews and comments about them on this forum and others. Not quite the same as having a go on the machine before you buy, but that option isn't always available. Also, running a bead out the back of the shop doesn't tell you how well the machine stands up over time, or what after-sales support is like - online comments can provide that.

    I'm one of the UniMIG owners that Karl refers to as being happy with the brand. From my point of view, it's not really a UniMIG, rather it's a Jasic, and they do have a decent reputation. I'm not convinced my machine is by any means perfect, but I don't have access to a different MIG to be able to tell how it compares.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Lebrina
    Posts
    1,910

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    I see Rossi machines being flogged all over Ebay, but have never heard from anyone who has used one. They're also sold by AGR Machinery, one of the dodgiest sellers on Ebay, which in itself should be a pretty good reason to avoid them.
    Totally agree. How AGR is still trading is beyond me. I haven't heard a single good word about them.

    If you're willing to spend a bit more there's plenty of choice in the $900 or so bracket, from UniMIG, CIG, Lincoln, Tokentools etc. for most of these machines, you'll find reviews and comments about them on this forum and others. Not quite the same as having a go on the machine before you buy, but that option isn't always available. Also, running a bead out the back of the shop doesn't tell you how well the machine stands up over time, or what after-sales support is like - online comments can provide that.
    That's true, things take off at the $900ish mark for sure.
    Generally I'm not a big fan of buying welders online for the reason that most companies make some good welders and some shockers, take Cigweld DC stick inverters for example, their cheapies are strictly a domestic proposition - when they fail you fill your bin with them. Getting advice from a trusted welding supplier is priceless, they will often shake their head when you look at a certain machine they sell and say, "I probably wouldn't recommend that". That's priceless information.

    I'm one of the UniMIG owners that Karl refers to as being happy with the brand. From my point of view, it's not really a UniMIG, rather it's a Jasic, and they do have a decent reputation. I'm not convinced my machine is by any means perfect, but I don't have access to a different MIG to be able to tell how it compares.
    There are a lot of Unimigs out there and they certainly aren't the worst by any means. I would choose them over the ebay specials as a rule. At least you have a face to talk to and they have been around for a while.
    No experience of Token Tools, but people here really do speak well of him and he has a reputation for trying to help.
    The welder repairman that I use dreads when he sees a Chinese Ebay special come through his door. Some are really well built and have well constructed circuitry, others of the same brand are thrown together. To be fair, there are many Cigweld, WIA and BOC models he hates too. The earlier WIA 270C migs were tough and a brilliant single phase mig with punch. The newer ones are not so good since they swapped production to China. So much is sourced from China and of variable quality now that the knowledge or a welder salesman is more important now than ever.
    We were spoiled in the days when anything carrying a CIG, Lincoln, EMF or WIA badge was automatically top line. We paid more for it though relatively speaking.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    155

    Default

    Thanks very much lads.

    I Googled for the National welders and seems they are into industrial robotic welders, and overall are top end stuff (= more than I can afford).

    Token Tools is starting to get my attention. Five year guarantee, 30 days to give the product back is you aren't satisfied. From what I've read Pete seems to be a guy who tries to have everything covered and he's interested in the long term success of Token Tools. I won't be able to test run a TT welder but as I've heard quite a few times, there seems to be no negative comments about TT welders or service so they must be a good balance of price/quality. I'm not a hardcore mig welding guy so I might not know the difference between a great and a decent mig in any case.

    Karl, I also heard someone else recommending the Migomag welders, I'll check them out.

    Cheers,

    Keith.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    lillimur
    Posts
    86

    Default

    Probably not much help but we have a national 180 and 4 migomags from 140 to 400 amps transformer types that I find to be in the same league as the national.We also have a magnum inverter tig which has done a lot of work welding ally gates.It has been trouble free and does exactly what Graeme said it would. I am a very satisfied customer and bought the tig from magnum because I could talk to him and by driving to Cobden could try before I bought it. His number is
    0418 529886
    John

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Adelaide Hills, SA
    Posts
    141

    Default How much use do you intend?

    I have old WIA and CIG migs in my workshop with 3 phase. I wanted a small 240v mig for out of the workshop jobs without spending many $. I bought a rossi on EBAY and think it's ok. I have used it more than I thought I would. I would buy another, just remember what you paid for it and dont expect the same machine as you would get for 3 or 4 times the money. I like the little Lincoln 180c? not sure on the numbers, if you want a better little mig.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •