Thread: TIG Welding Aluminium back for more Q's

hey guys im back and in need of more help, ok ive taught my self to run beads and i have joint 40x40x3mm square tubing but since than ive lost it the plot that is lol
i just warmed up the TIG machine and tried to do corner and lap welds for now im interested in working out the corner welds, from previous advice i was told to give the torch a swirling motion in small circles to get the aluminium puddle started the problem is right there the arc wants to goto either piece of aluminium and not arc right in the joint of the two pieces why is this? and how do i fix this problem?

im practicing on some 100x3mm sheet with 40x40x3mm clamped behind it to keep it square

warning my welds look shocking and i havent cleaned them

Hi Gazz, you still have welder set up problems there. You will need to address these before doing fillet welds, which I find are the hardest to learn.
Doesn't look like you have any cleaning action and poor gas coverage. You wont need to clean tig welds with proper set up.

The bottom bead I had gas problems the top runs are normal.
Capture1.JPG

Good clean bead
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It's been a while since I've done some TIG, but from memory when first striking the arc, run the arc over both sections to get it hot, until it starts to puddle. Going by the look of the welds you could go up a tad in amps, the welds look cold, not enough penetration. Also when welding ,try to keep the torch at an equal angle ie. on a joint of 90 deg inside which will be 270 deg outside, half of that 135deg with the torch pointed at 45deg toward the direction you are going, the idea of this is to prewarm as you go. If it is a large section that you are doing, warm it by using a propane torch to preheat, if by now you haven't worked it out, ally sucks a lot of heat.
When asking for help on something like this, it helps if you can let us know your flow rates, at a rough guess you need to go up to around 10 litres per minute. Are you welding inside a shed or under a carport?
When I learned to TIG, my instructor gave short bits to learn on 100mm + or - then longer as experience grew, as it didn't require as much heat to get started.
Hope this helps.
Kryn

could it be i have a cheap gas defuser? mine has about 7-8 holes drilled thru where the gas comes out of the torch there is no mesh screen to distribute the gas evenly

Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore

It's been a while since I've done some TIG, but from memory when first striking the arc, run the arc over both sections to get it hot, until it starts to puddle. Going by the look of the welds you could go up a tad in amps, the welds look cold, not enough penetration. Also when welding ,try to keep the torch at an equal angle ie. on a joint of 90 deg inside which will be 270 deg outside, half of that 135deg with the torch pointed at 45deg toward the direction you are going, the idea of this is to prewarm as you go. If it is a large section that you are doing, warm it by using a propane torch to preheat, if by now you haven't worked it out, ally sucks a lot of heat.
When I learned to TIG, my instructor gave short bits to learn on 100mm + or - then longer as experience grew, as it didn't require as much heat to get started.
Hope this helps.
Kryn

hey kryn, when i hold the torch at a 45 degree angle there is a flame around the arc and it just melts the filler rod way before it reaches the puddle
you can see what i mean in this picture in the center shows two balls where the filler rod melted before it reached the puddle, and to the right u can see the same thing

Originally Posted by gazza2009au

hey kryn, when i hold the torch at a 45 degree angle there is a flame around the arc and it just melts the filler rod way before it reaches the puddle
you can see what i mean in this picture in the center shows two balls where the filler rod melted before it reached the puddle, and to the right u can see the same thing

Thanks for letting me know, what you are doing wrong (I hate to say), is that you are not pulling the torch far enough away to allow the rod to be dipped in the puddle, it's the puddle that melts the rod, not the arc.
Kryn

Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore

Thanks for letting me know, what you are doing wrong (I hate to say), is that you are not pulling the torch far enough away to allow the rod to be dipped in the puddle, it's the puddle that melts the rod, not the arc.
Kryn

im not sure people were telling me a couple of months ago i wasnt close enough to the puddle?

heres a crap picture i just drew up in paint this is what im experiencing the orange is a intense flame i dont see in the youtube videos, this intense flame is whats melting the rod way before it gets to the puddle

Gazz, you need to pull the torch away about 20mm and dip the rod in the puddle before it cools. If you imagine a rocking motion, where you have the rod in one hand and torch in the other, the rod is 20mm from the tip and as you pull the tip away the rod comes in the puddle in one swift motion. Practice the movement until it becomes second nature. Unfortunately it is something that can be lost, if it's a long time between welds.
Try this and see how you get on, I'm on nearly every night, so let me know how you get on or still have problems. By the way don't use a steel wire brush on ally, brass is preferable followed by stainless. Vinegar is a good way of cleaning scrap ally or your tinny to repair/weld.
Kryn

Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore

Gazz, you need to pull the torch away about 20mm and dip the rod in the puddle before it cools. If you imagine a rocking motion, where you have the rod in one hand and torch in the other, the rod is 20mm from the tip and as you pull the tip away the rod comes in the puddle in one swift motion. Practice the movement until it becomes second nature. Unfortunately it is something that can be lost, if it's a long time between welds.
Try this and see how you get on, I'm on nearly every night, so let me know how you get on or still have problems. By the way don't use a steel wire brush on ally, brass is preferable followed by stainless. Vinegar is a good way of cleaning scrap ally or your tinny to repair/weld.
Kryn

thanks kryn for the tips, im pretty much teaching my self by watching youtube and and learning from guys on WWF, one question how come i dont see these guys on youtube using the rocking motion? it just seems to be a steady slow move across the work piece dabbing the filler rod as they go

like this video Welding Mild Steel Sheet Metal | TIG Time - YouTube fast forward to 5mins that blue arc isnt blue/purple on my machine its a orange and alot more intense, could i possibly have a gas leak leaking air into my TIG machine than up thru the torch causing the fierce orange flame?

im back at it again now seems i can weld good without the filler rod but adding the filler rod makes the welds look horrible with heaps of impurity

see the left weld i started a weld without the filler rod just melting the two pieces than i added the filler rod

in the second pic i done the same thing with and without the filler rod

i thought ok my filler rods are contaminated so i try running some beads using the same filler rod and bingo it does the beads perfect without the impurity!

Originally Posted by gazza2009au

thanks kryn for the tips, im pretty much teaching my self by watching youtube and and learning from guys on WWF, one question how come i dont see these guys on youtube using the rocking motion? it just seems to be a steady slow move across the work piece dabbing the filler rod as they go

like this video Welding Mild Steel Sheet Metal | TIG Time - YouTube fast forward to 5mins that blue arc isnt blue/purple on my machine its a orange and alot more intense, could i possibly have a gas leak leaking air into my TIG machine than up thru the torch causing the fierce orange flame?

Welding ally I find is a little bit different as it has a lower melting point than steel, plus they are probably more experienced at it. The reason that you have orange and a lot more intense could be that the Tungsten electrode is either contaminated or not sharp, do you grind on a normal stone or on a belt?
Do you have the correct electrode?
I doubt very much that you have a gas leak, as your welds would be porous. Without seeing a clip of YOU welding, it would be hard to say exactly where it is going wrong.
You are getting better, the reason for the porous weld with the filler rod is that you are probably taking the rod too far away from the gas flow allowing the end of the rod to become contaminated with airborne moisture etc.
Kryn

Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore

Welding ally I find is a little bit different as it has a lower melting point than steel, plus they are probably more experienced at it. The reason that you have orange and a lot more intense could be that the Tungsten electrode is either contaminated or not sharp, do you grind on a normal stone or on a belt?
Do you have the correct electrode?
I doubt very much that you have a gas leak, as your welds would be porous. Without seeing a clip of YOU welding, it would be hard to say exactly where it is going wrong.
You are getting better, the reason for the porous weld with the filler rod is that you are probably taking the rod too far away from the gas flow allowing the end of the rod to become contaminated with airborne moisture etc.
Kryn

hey kryn, i sharpen the tungsten using a angle grinder for both the beads and the corner welds

this part i dont get, that intense orange flame welding alloy, welding steel in these pics i get a beautiful blue/purple flame that is 1/4th the size of when welding alloy the flame i get when welding steel looks exactly like those in the youtube videos i have watched but welding alloy the flame is to fierce

i also tried the melt and lift technique i cant get the hang of it lol

i can try get a video will i need to protect the camera some how from the bright light?

in the pictures thats my first time welding mild steel i done the corner easy alloy is just a paint in the butt

well i think i found the problem on them iller web site Miller - Ten Common TIG Problems: A Visual Guide my welds look like the first picture meaning its a gas flow problem either to much to little or the gas lense body i think its called? as i mentioned i my torch didnt come with the mesh screen to distribute the gas evenly

Hi qazza, when welding steel and ally, do you change the tungsten electrode??? The white tipped electrodes are for Ally and red tipped for steel/stainless. The way I remember is that welding Ally it is white and welding steel it goes red.
When you sharpen the tip on the angle grinder has it been used on steel??? If it has, you have cross contaminated the tip, the grinding disc should only be used on the tungsten, you would probably be better using a flap disc as it is not as aggressive. The actual tip should be about 1/3-1/2 dia and 3x dia back. If cleaning/grinding ally with the grinder the same applies, cross contamination and will show on the welds. Use a paint pen to mark your ally discs so that doesn't happen.
Do you know what your gas flow rate is? Are you using pure argon for Ally?
Kryn

Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore

Hi qazza, when welding steel and ally, do you change the tungsten electrode??? The white tipped electrodes are for Ally and red tipped for steel/stainless. The way I remember is that welding Ally it is white and welding steel it goes red.
When you sharpen the tip on the angle grinder has it been used on steel??? If it has, you have cross contaminated the tip, the grinding disc should only be used on the tungsten, you would probably be better using a flap disc as it is not as aggressive. The actual tip should be about 1/3-1/2 dia and 3x dia back. If cleaning/grinding ally with the grinder the same applies, cross contamination and will show on the welds. Use a paint pen to mark your ally discs so that doesn't happen.
Do you know what your gas flow rate is? Are you using pure argon for Ally?
Kryn

hey mate, yep i have both white and red tungstens in 1.6mm, the wheel on the angle grinder was originally only used to sharpen the tungsten but i got lazy one time and had to grind down a aluminium weld but since than i use the flat side of the disk which hasnt touched any metals to sharpen the tungsten

and yeah im using the grinding disk to grind down the welds than i go over it with a SS brush than reweld the same spots bad idea?

as for the gas flow im just using the "tig" section on my regulator ive moved it up to the max and down to the middle with the same effect and yeah im using pure argon

could the problem be in my angle of the torch? thinking about it i hold the torch 45 degrees to the top work piece as i thought this is how its done since im running a flat bead pretty much on the corner joint

how much difference is there welding mild steel to stainless steel?