Thread: TIG Welding Aluminium back for more Q's

Originally Posted by gazza2009au

cheers mate i will check it in the morning
also forgot to ask one time i had a brain fart and moved the welder not realising i still had the gas hose connected to the gas cylinder so the cylinder fell over on my shed floor so my gauges read slightly off

Without meaning to sound condescending, I hope you learned from that. Knocking the valve out of a cylinder is VERY embarrassing, (I know this).
Good to see you are finding and solving issues one after the other, that's what it's all about.

Originally Posted by Karl Robbers

Without meaning to sound condescending, I hope you learned from that. Knocking the valve out of a cylinder is VERY embarrassing, (I know this).
Good to see you are finding and solving issues one after the other, that's what it's all about.

yeah i felt like an idiot, i unscrew the gas hose after every use this one time i didnt and left it the next day is when i moved the welder


ok so i was just messing around with the welder seems i run ok beads welding from back to front its a bit awkward trying to position the long filler rod in between me and the torch

heres a couple of beads i just ran both using the same amps the flat weld has low to none frequency? and higher amps around 75 the other one has around 1-2 o'clock on the frequency dial and same amps

and hopefully someone can tell by the look of the filler rod what im doing wrong am i moving to fast? some welds leave a trail of melted rod on the welds like the tip of this rod

Okie dokie, here goes.
You haven't got your gas cylinder just sitting on the floor have you? That's a really bad habit and asking for trouble if you do. Gas cylinders must be restrained at all times. That could be chained to a trolley, secured to a workbench leg or something similar.

Pic 74 and 75. Pic 74 shows remnants of what you have hanging off the end of the filler in pic 75. This is caused by not being deliberate enough when adding filler wire, at every dab, the filler must transfer to the puddle or else it melts, oxidises and hangs off the end as we see here. Insufficient shielding gas can cause add to this, (are you using that 6mm shroud still?), contaminated filler can cause this also, but yours looks okay. When welding you must keep the filler wire in the shielding gas envelope at all times too, or you create a lot of oxides that contribute to the issue in pic 75. A small gas cup makes this harder too. If it starts to happen, I have been known to get the filler wire hot and then just flick the molten end to remove the build up, but you are probably est off to stop and cut off the damaged section of filler wire.
Pic 77 and 79. We're getting somewhere now! Nice clean shiny bead and evenly spaced ripples. One main area to improve upon, your travel speed. You are travelling too fast for your amperage and this is causing the wide ripple spacings. Slow down your travel speed, add small amounts of filler more often or, up your amperage, and travel at the same speed, but adding the filler more often to cut down on the ripple spacings.
I know we always say that cleanliness is paramount with ally, but you are working on new material - put the wire brush back in your toolbox. All those ugly scratches really detract from any project you make and are serving no purpose. If it was a tinnie that had a cracked transom, I'd say to wire brush it for all you were worth, but clean sheet and tube don't need it. Make sure your brush isn't full of grease, silicon, paint or the like when you do wire brush or you actually embed contaminants in the metal.

thanks karl, for pics 77 and 79 i had the amps high for 1.6mm sheet and i cranked the frequency right up

and yeah im still using the 6mm cup for now its all i have to mess around with i think the pictures 77 and 79 came out shiny with no contaminants is maybe because the high frequency dial made the narrow weld and the small 6mm cup was able to cover the weld with gas?

now i went back to my live bait tank (the aluminium box) project and i tried to finish off the sections i havent welded, what i noticed is by the time the aluminium melts and goes shiny it melts just a little to much and has a gap than this is when it gets messy and i add rod to fill the gap and it balls up or it melts thru and craters

yeah the tank is free standing in my shed i will sort that out tomorrow and use a tie down to strap it to my bench

If I were to offer you one overall piece of advice it would be to keep it simple and not overthink things. By this I mean to not play with the dials too much. The best analogy I can think of is to that of a Holden Commodore and a Mark Skaife's V8 Supercar. Both will run Bathurst and get to the finish line, the supercar definitely is more refined and can do things that the Commodore driver can only dream of due to it's adjustability and refinement. It takes a driver with the experience of Mark Skaife to bring out the best and utilise those adjustments. I would suggest setting your AC balance at 65%, which is what I would term balanced AC giving a good baseline for cleaning versus penetration and set your frequency at 50 to 60 Hz. Naturally, turn the pulse function off and run in 2T mode. This should pretty closely approximate a standard AC tig. Get some 3 to 5mm Ally and practice your beads paying attention to bead colour, (shiny not frosty), width, (consistant), profile, (not sticking up like a pimple but not wide and sunken), ripple pattern, (nice, close and consistant) and feeding your wire through your fingers. Learn what amperage you need to suit your welding style on that material thickness. Don't be scared to cool the plate between welds. Once you can run beads with your eyes closed, drop down to 1.6 or 2mm and do the same. Write down your findings in a little notebook as you find some "sweet" settings for future reference.
Now try a butt joint in some 3mm, once you get that looking good and with a nice profile and good penetration without blowing holes, drop down to the 1.6 or 2mm and do the same. Now try some fillet welds in 3mm, or an outside corner joint. Once you master that, 1.6 or 2mm. Along the way have a play with your AC balance and Frequency, noting what they do, but go back to your baseline setting for each new type of weld. This way you learn to weld with the basics, but also develop an appreciation of the effects of the various settings and can utilise them once you gain experience. You will also pick up a good bit of experience in tacking along the way.
Most sheet metal workshops will be happy to give/sell suitable offcuts.
It may sound tedious and even wasteful of material and gas, but nothing masks the pain when you stuff up a project that you have put a lot of work into because the joints won't weld as you desire. You actually get a lot of welding from a cylinder of gas - 500 odd minutes @ 8lpm from an E size Argon in fact.
I would definitely stay away from 1.6mm in your projects until you gain proficiency. You want a few successes to boost your confidence and get you back on the horse that's bucked you off first. Truth be told, you're actually not going too badly considering how you've learnt thus far.
All the advice I have given so far has probably been on the conservative side as I believe in tried and true methods as a starting point - too many bells and whistles complicate things.
True story, there was a shipyard, quite a high profile one in fact, their vessels are currently in service in the English Channel and with the US Navy among others at present. Their chosen material for construction of their vessels was Aluminium. Their MIG welders were modified so as to have only two basic settings. You guessed it - THICK and THIN, wire speed was variable over a very narrow range and gas flow was fixed. What this did though was to ensure that all welds were carried out withing set parameters that had been tested as being compliant with the various weld standards applicable. If anyone thinks that their welders were long term experienced boilermakers, you'd be wrong. Their favourite employees were carpenters, they knew about accuracy, but knew nothing about welding so were blank canvasses for the shipyard to train their way. Moral of the story. You don't need a heap of adjustments to do world class work, just practice and sound procedures.

Originally Posted by Karl Robbers

If I were to offer you one overall piece of advice it would be to keep it simple and not overthink things. By this I mean to not play with the dials too much. The best analogy I can think of is to that of a Holden Commodore and a Mark Skaife's V8 Supercar. Both will run Bathurst and get to the finish line, the supercar definitely is more refined and can do things that the Commodore driver can only dream of due to it's adjustability and refinement. It takes a driver with the experience of Mark Skaife to bring out the best and utilise those adjustments. I would suggest setting your AC balance at 65%, which is what I would term balanced AC giving a good baseline for cleaning versus penetration and set your frequency at 50 to 60 Hz. Naturally, turn the pulse function off and run in 2T mode. This should pretty closely approximate a standard AC tig. Get some 3 to 5mm Ally and practice your beads paying attention to bead colour, (shiny not frosty), width, (consistant), profile, (not sticking up like a pimple but not wide and sunken), ripple pattern, (nice, close and consistant) and feeding your wire through your fingers. Learn what amperage you need to suit your welding style on that material thickness. Don't be scared to cool the plate between welds. Once you can run beads with your eyes closed, drop down to 1.6 or 2mm and do the same. Write down your findings in a little notebook as you find some "sweet" settings for future reference.
Now try a butt joint in some 3mm, once you get that looking good and with a nice profile and good penetration without blowing holes, drop down to the 1.6 or 2mm and do the same. Now try some fillet welds in 3mm, or an outside corner joint. Once you master that, 1.6 or 2mm. Along the way have a play with your AC balance and Frequency, noting what they do, but go back to your baseline setting for each new type of weld. This way you learn to weld with the basics, but also develop an appreciation of the effects of the various settings and can utilise them once you gain experience. You will also pick up a good bit of experience in tacking along the way.
Most sheet metal workshops will be happy to give/sell suitable offcuts.
It may sound tedious and even wasteful of material and gas, but nothing masks the pain when you stuff up a project that you have put a lot of work into because the joints won't weld as you desire. You actually get a lot of welding from a cylinder of gas - 500 odd minutes @ 8lpm from an E size Argon in fact.
I would definitely stay away from 1.6mm in your projects until you gain proficiency. You want a few successes to boost your confidence and get you back on the horse that's bucked you off first. Truth be told, you're actually not going too badly considering how you've learnt thus far.
All the advice I have given so far has probably been on the conservative side as I believe in tried and true methods as a starting point - too many bells and whistles complicate things.
True story, there was a shipyard, quite a high profile one in fact, their vessels are currently in service in the English Channel and with the US Navy among others at present. Their chosen material for construction of their vessels was Aluminium. Their MIG welders were modified so as to have only two basic settings. You guessed it - THICK and THIN, wire speed was variable over a very narrow range and gas flow was fixed. What this did though was to ensure that all welds were carried out withing set parameters that had been tested as being compliant with the various weld standards applicable. If anyone thinks that their welders were long term experienced boilermakers, you'd be wrong. Their favourite employees were carpenters, they knew about accuracy, but knew nothing about welding so were blank canvasses for the shipyard to train their way. Moral of the story. You don't need a heap of adjustments to do world class work, just practice and sound procedures.

thanks mate i should have gone with the 3mm sheet to start with i thought the 1.6mm would be just as easy but lower the amps its actually like chalk and cheese to weld in differences, ill take your advice on and see how i go
im about to ring the welding shop to find out more info about the 26 size torch i might go pick one up today

Good on you Gazza. It's always hard starting out. You will think nothing of welding 1.6 and even thinner one day. Just got to get the basics sorted first.

just been over to the welding shop and what can i say what a piece of s...! nothing is standard, no torches fit, there is a condenser stopping a conversion to a newer style torch, the bloke removed my cover and said it looks like a 100amp machine!!!!!
this is bad news, what next? flog it off and look at buying a real machine a everlast 185 AC/DC tig?

i hope i can get some money back on this machine or i'll be at a total loss

should i keep it knowing its not the 200amp machine i purchased and buy the 26 size torch from china?

i am just gutted atm

The bloke said it looks like a 100 amp machine dosnt mean it is.

Originally Posted by cwcarter

The bloke said it looks like a 100 amp machine dosnt mean it is.

yeah the ebay add states its C ticked for australian standards, the welding shop said nothing on this welder meets australian standards and crap will hit the fan if someone electrocuted

I think I would be finding another welding shop, or at the very least getting a second opinion.
A condenser stopping conversion to another torch? I could only assume without seeing your machine that you have 3 basic connections. 1/ Power to the torch. 2/ Gas to the torch. 3/ Switching for the HF/Contactor/Gas. If I recall correctly, your Gas and Power come via a common M16X1.5 connection on the front of the machine and unless your welder is very different to every other Tig on God's green earth, the switching will be a simple normally open single pole momentary switch.
Your welder may not be the best example of the breed, but has the actual welder side let you down yet? No.
None of the Chinese tigs use what I would call standard fittings for the tig torch, not that I've seen anyway, there are enough of them around to have a supply of parts and despite what every seller spouts, they are all pretty much the same construction. If you think about it logically, there is nothing complicated about a tig torch, broken down there is only a hose to get gas to where you want it, a wire to get power to the electrode and the switch. As long as the fittings can be married up and I have no doubt they can, you are good to go.
As to the lack of compliance, I would be very surprised if this were the case. A simple call to your State's electrical regulator would sort that issue if you feel sufficiently concerned.
If no one locally wants your dollar, then the choice is easy, bite the bullet, or rather, click the mouse and get a torch out of china.
I suspect your salesman is telling porkies, having said that, I wouldn't be in a hurry to spend my dollars at Bit Deals ever again either.

Originally Posted by Karl Robbers

I think I would be finding another welding shop, or at the very least getting a second opinion.
A condenser stopping conversion to another torch? I could only assume without seeing your machine that you have 3 basic connections. 1/ Power to the torch. 2/ Gas to the torch. 3/ Switching for the HF/Contactor/Gas. If I recall correctly, your Gas and Power come via a common M16X1.5 connection on the front of the machine and unless your welder is very different to every other Tig on God's green earth, the switching will be a simple normally open single pole momentary switch.
Your welder may not be the best example of the breed, but has the actual welder side let you down yet? No.
None of the Chinese tigs use what I would call standard fittings for the tig torch, not that I've seen anyway, there are enough of them around to have a supply of parts and despite what every seller spouts, they are all pretty much the same construction. If you think about it logically, there is nothing complicated about a tig torch, broken down there is only a hose to get gas to where you want it, a wire to get power to the electrode and the switch. As long as the fittings can be married up and I have no doubt they can, you are good to go.
As to the lack of compliance, I would be very surprised if this were the case. A simple call to your State's electrical regulator would sort that issue if you feel sufficiently concerned.
If no one locally wants your dollar, then the choice is easy, bite the bullet, or rather, click the mouse and get a torch out of china.
I suspect your salesman is telling porkies, having said that, I wouldn't be in a hurry to spend my dollars at Bit Deals ever again either.

ive purchased two welders from bit deals and i have to say there products are crap, being new to welding i bought a MMA/MIG/MAG machine the ebay auction said GAS/GASLESS but there was no way of reversing polarity it was a gas only machine, so silly me i see the $600 price tag on a new TIG machine with the same company and this is what i end up with its still covered by about 6 months warranty although the shop removed the cover today it may avoid my warranty nothing inside was touched and there was no warranty stickers broken when removing the cover

one thing i didnt like about the shop today i called up the guy said 17 size tig torches start at $70 he mentioned if i was a local i would get a discount so i go into the store than his 17 size torches start at $90 i didnt say anything but was going a head with the deal the $90 torch didnt fit than he pulls out another much better torch for $95, i didnt like how he was trying to palm off the cheaper torch first considering it was a great difference in quality/look between torches

also when he pulled out the cheapest basic 17 size torch he pulled out a 26 size nice looking torch and said it was $150, on friday they started at $135, either he has a weekly special on or his just jacking up all the prices instore

They are about everywhere, always trying to rip somebody off.
I guess you've already worked out that the cheapest doesn't always work out so well in the end.
Honestly, if it were me, I'd probably just pull the trigger on a torch out of china with the correct fittings. I would also give real consideration to getting an 8M torch lead over a 4M if you plan on doing any boat work as it is much easier than putting welder and/or gas cylinder in the boat.
If I were closer to you I am pretty sure I could graft your fittings onto the standard 17 or 26 cable, but I'm not, so I reckon or amazon express will be your friend.
Keep us posted.

Originally Posted by Karl Robbers

They are about everywhere, always trying to rip somebody off.
I guess you've already worked out that the cheapest doesn't always work out so well in the end.
Honestly, if it were me, I'd probably just pull the trigger on a torch out of china with the correct fittings. I would also give real consideration to getting an 8M torch lead over a 4M if you plan on doing any boat work as it is much easier than putting welder and/or gas cylinder in the boat.
If I were closer to you I am pretty sure I could graft your fittings onto the standard 17 or 26 cable, but I'm not, so I reckon or amazon express will be your friend.
Keep us posted.

i will think about it over night as weather to sell or keep the machine

two torches i will consider

200A WP 26 SR 26 Tig Torch Gun for TIG Welding 12 Feet-in Other Machinery from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com

WP 26 TIG welding torch,4M length, air cooled-in Welding Torches from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com

i really like the modern look to the blue torch it cost a little more and the seller only has 2 feedback vs 204 feedback for the black torch

Good idea to sleep on it.
One question though, with this torch WP 26 TIG welding torch,4M length, air cooled-in Welding Torches from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com Which one of the two pictured torches are they selling? The blue one or the black one with the separate switch?
I gotta say that looks don't count for a whole lot with welding gear. If you do decide to sell, what will you replace it with?