Thread: TIG Welding Aluminium back for more Q's

Gazza,

Those aluminium corners are shockers. The only good bit seems to be the start of pic19. I can see from the etching line that you must have your AC balance about right and your amperage seems pretty close (based on the 1st bit of that same pic). I'd be pretty sure that you are losing your argon shielding - either torch angle (again !) or the gas is being blown away by breezes or a fan (like from your welder?). But maybe tungsten dipping into the puddle? Take a photo of the angle that you hold the torch in relation to the work piece and post it here.

The aluminium flat welds are OK, but your amperage is too low and you are still getting contamination probably from poor shielding or maybe just from previous contamination of the tungsten

Looking at your mild steel welds - you have to clean the metal mate! Grind everything down to clean metal BEFORE you weld it. If you weld crappy metal, you will get contaminants in the gas plume which will deposit on your tig cup, electrode, etc. which will then contaminate subsequent welds.

Your steel welds need more amperage too (and make sure to weld in DC only).

Good work looking at the miller guide - some good info there.

- Mick

Originally Posted by WelderMick

Gazza,

Those aluminium corners are shockers. The only good bit seems to be the start of pic19. I can see from the etching line that you must have your AC balance about right and your amperage seems pretty close (based on the 1st bit of that same pic). I'd be pretty sure that you are losing your argon shielding - either torch angle (again !) or the gas is being blown away by breezes or a fan (like from your welder?). But maybe tungsten dipping into the puddle? Take a photo of the angle that you hold the torch in relation to the work piece and post it here.

The aluminium flat welds are OK, but your amperage is too low and you are still getting contamination probably from poor shielding or maybe just from previous contamination of the tungsten

Looking at your mild steel welds - you have to clean the metal mate! Grind everything down to clean metal BEFORE you weld it. If you weld crappy metal, you will get contaminants in the gas plume which will deposit on your tig cup, electrode, etc. which will then contaminate subsequent welds.

Your steel welds need more amperage too (and make sure to weld in DC only).

Good work looking at the miller guide - some good info there.

- Mick

cheers mick, im leaning towards the filer rods i didnt store them correctly my steel and aluminium filler rods have just been sitting on my bench in the garden shed i know a bad idea and my filler rods are probably rubbish now?

i will get a picture of my torch angle soon

the welder is on the floor and im welding on a table inside a shed

i also rarely touch the tungsten and regrind after it

the steel welds were just for a test to see if the same problem happen on steel but it welded steel fine so im thinking my aluminium filler rods are contaminated from sitting in the shed

i done a number of things which fixed my welding problem i bought a aluminium grinding disk, acetone, i cleaned the filler rods and piece being welded, i upped the amps to 108A, i pushed the tungsten inside the gas lense more and i bought one of those tube gas flow meters seems i was previously trying to weld at 5 litres i think it is i will have to check so i upped it to 10 litres and this is how the welds came out

Originally Posted by gazza2009au

i done a number of things which fixed my welding problem i bought a aluminium grinding disk, acetone, i cleaned the filler rods and piece being welded, i upped the amps to 108A, i pushed the tungsten inside the gas lense more and i bought one of those tube gas flow meters seems i was previously trying to weld at 5 litres i think it is i will have to check so i upped it to 10 litres and this is how the welds came out

Gazza
Yeah, they're better, but the 'peppering' indicates you are still getting contamination.
7 or 8 lpm should be enough with at #7 cup. 10L is OK but you're just wasting gas.
I think it's been pointed out before, but make sure your arc length is short (tungsten say 3mm from metal)
you're definitely making it hard for yourself with corroded filler with the steel. Same with your aluminium filler - if it's not shiny, then make it shiny with some fine wet/dry paper, then rinse and dry the rods.
Store new/clean rods in a humidity free environment - say in a length of PVC pipe, with caps on the end and a couple of sachets of dessicant inside.
You'd need to buy a welding lens (say #9) to tape up in front of your camera if you want to film the arc
Cheers
- Mick

Originally Posted by WelderMick

Gazza
Yeah, they're better, but the 'peppering' indicates you are still getting contamination.
7 or 8 lpm should be enough with at #7 cup. 10L is OK but you're just wasting gas.
I think it's been pointed out before, but make sure your arc length is short (tungsten say 3mm from metal)
you're definitely making it hard for yourself with corroded filler with the steel. Same with your aluminium filler - if it's not shiny, then make it shiny with some fine wet/dry paper, then rinse and dry the rods.
Store new/clean rods in a humidity free environment - say in a length of PVC pipe, with caps on the end and a couple of sachets of dessicant inside.
You'd need to buy a welding lens (say #9) to tape up in front of your camera if you want to film the arc
Cheers
- Mick

hey mick i have a awkward size torch i couldnt find parts for it today so i was stuck using a very tiny cup its about a No:4 or smaller, i was looking to buy the size 7 cup but it wouldnt fit my collet adapter, i also looked for the mesh collet and that too was different size to my torch so its becoming hard

Originally Posted by gazza2009au

hey mick i have a awkward size torch i couldnt find parts for it today so i was stuck using a very tiny cup its about a No:4 or smaller, i was looking to buy the size 7 cup but it wouldnt fit my collet adapter, i also looked for the mesh collet and that too was different size to my torch so its becoming hard

A #4 is pretty small, so yeah, I'd go bigger - particularly given the problems you've been having. I'm not quite sure what you mean by a mesh collet? like a gas lens? You don't really need it, but going up to a 6, 7 or 8 cup would help quite a bit.
Squirting 10 LPM through a #4 just gives a lot of turbulence and can be counter productive as the turbulence can draw air into the shielding area. Your original rate of 5 LPM through that cup is about right, but it gives you a very narrow gas shield and is probably why you're still getting contamination issues. A #7 with a bit more gas (say 7 or 8 LPM argon) gives you a wider gas shield.
You can weld with a #4 cup (obviously - otherwise they wouldn't sell them) but you have to have very good technique to make sure your weld stays adequately shielded. With a #7 it is a bit more forgiving and hence easier for a learner.

Hi I think the #4 is for welding stainless as for getting in close, as in boat railings etc.
What brand of torch do you have Gazza? If you can't get that desiccant or whatever, rice will do the trick also.
Kryn

I would be surprised if parts are not available for your torch as most torches, even the chinese knock offs are modelled on a couple of standard types. What brand of torch do you have, possibly post a pic of it.
As others have said, gas lenses are not required, but your shroud is definitely too small and will lead to turbulence. Always ensure that your shroud is clean, not chipped or damaged and is screwed snugly on, (if your shroud is loose, air is sucked in via venturi effect and your weld turns to poop). Better also to get a bobbin type flow meter as the dual gauge type are not all that controllable at the lower end of their range, your gas savings will pay for the flow meter pretty quickly anyway. If using a dual gauge type, I would typically set it by listening to the flow rather than using the gauge for tig work.
Honestly, I reckon grinding your tungsten on a contaminated wheel is probably the least of your worries in this case. Your filler wire may be contaminated, but you can get away with a fair bit if all else is good, I prefer to clean the filler material with steel wool rather than wet and dry, but either will probably work well. You definitely have contamination issues which I suspect are largely caused by withdrawing the filler wire from the gas envelope during welding. There is no need to withdraw the torch when adding filler and I have never seen it done that way. Hold a close arc, but not as close as for DC and let the arc do the work of cleaning, only add filler material when the puddle is hot enough. You actually have a lot more time than you think to do this - everything seems to happen so quickly when you first start, but calm down, breathe and watch what the puddle is telling you. I wouldn't be sharpening tungstens for AC, particularly 1.6mm as the more concentrated arc from a tapered tungsten, (really only of benefit for fine work on thin material), will actually be working against you when welding a corner joint. Angle grinders don't do the best job of grinding tungstens whether you use a flap disc or a grinding disc. But if you have nothing else then that's all you can do.
Can you post a clear photo of your tungsten after you have welded with it and also a clear photo of your filler rods, just so we can see how clean/ contaminated they are. I have only once come across filler wire that was contaminated badly out of the box.
Another point re your setup of the 100X3 flat to the 40X40X3 box. Placing the 100X3 over the corner of the box section reall means that there is a lot of metal to heat on one side of the joint and substantially less on the other. You will need to focus your arc substantially more towards the thicker section than the thin. Definitely need more grunt on that fillet weld, the rule for Aluminium is to up the amps and get in and get out quickly. I would at a guess, say probably 30-40% higher amperage for a given thickness of Aluminium compared to the same in Stainless steel.
Don't grind before you weld on Ally either if you can avoid it, you will greatly increase the difficulty due to oxides being trapped in the grind marks. While cleanliness is next to Godliness for Ally, you can actually go too far. Working with new material, which you are, you shouldn't have to touch the material before welding it unless there is cutting oil or similar on it. A quick wipe with metho does wonders in that case.

hey mick finding the pink part of the torch is hard for my torch but ill keep looking

hey karl heres a picture of the torch

i hope u can see the tungsten from the pic? also pics of the filler rods

first weld i done was ok needed more penetration but i ran a full weld than i tried doing another side and it was shocking with nothing but contamination so i had to grind it all off than i just tacked everything up and left it at that i only have 5000 on the gas meter left before a refill is needed

Okay, looking at picture 34, the end of your tungsten looks splintered and ragged, that won't help. You need to gently grind the end square which won't be easy with an angle grinder, you want a good clean end with no chipping or splintering, this will go a long way to restoring a decent arc quality.
Secondly, the tungsten is stuck out too far. For AC, you are generally not too far off flush with the shroud although a bit more stickout is handy for fillet welds, just remember the greater the stickout, the more gas cover required, which, with your small shroud will not be readily achievable. Check your post flow settings as I have a suspicion that your tungsten is still hot when the gas cuts out, it looks a little oxidised. No biggie, but I would generally use a 2.4 tungsten for all Aluminium work as they better handle the greater electrode heat encountered using AC.
Grinding back Ally is not as simple as grinding out a steel weld. Generally you will find that a weld that has been ground out does not weld up anywhere near as easily as clean parent metal due to the aforementioned oxides being trapped in the grind marks. Best is to use a carbide burr to remove defects where possible. Finishing with a 40 grit flap disc is also a help in smoothing out deep grind marks.
Does that torch have any numbers on it? It is obviously of chinese origin, (do I recall you direct importing this machine from china?), and I will near bet my life that it is a copy of a well known brand torch. Where have you tried to get consumables? It puts me in mind of a WP-9 torch looking at the shape of the shroud. Consumables are often a problem for these machines, but in a worst case scenario, can be rectified by replacing the torch, (not a lot of money via ebay etc), with a more common WP-26 or similar, a 17 is probably a bit small if you are doing a bit of Ally work.
A bit hard to tell from the photo, but your filler looks a bit pock marked, so a hit with some steel wool wouldn't hurt to see if it improves the welding qualities. What grade filler is it by the way? 5356?
Sort out the gas shroud and the electrode and you will be ready to go to the next stage. It would pay to get some spare collets and collet bodies ahead of time in case they are hard to source also. You will need them.
In case you don't know already, the ink left from permanent markers acts as a contaminant also. It doesn't really affect weldability, but it leaves a black line in your weld. Wash it off with metho and a rag and you'll be fine.

heres my welder can u tell what type of torch it is a copy of? NEW 3 IN 1 AC DC Inverter Welder TIG ARC Welding Machine Stick Pulse Function | eBay

i wiped down the filler rods with a clean rag and acetone it left behind dirt on the rag, i can weld the aluminium thats there but as soon as i add filler it crackles and than balls up and looks like crap with all the contamination

Very hard to identify torch from pictures, too many variables. I even checked your sellers store and they don't sell consumables. Possibly a bit of a future lesson there.
If it were me, I would take your torch complete with shroud, collet body and collet to a welding equipment supplier and check to see just what fits.
If I am understanding you correctly, you currently have a gas lens set up, (collet body with the wire mesh diffuser). That being the case, I would guess that if you tried maybe a 53N61 shroud it may fit, that should be a #7 shroud. That is only a blurry crystal ball answer by the way.
Personally, I would not bother with a gas lens and would try to use common consumables. You can get plain collet bodies for most torches and that would be the way I would proceed.
When you can, post a series of photos of your torch stripped down, showing collet body and collet with maybe a couple of dimensions and I will have a look at my product manuals and see what I can find. Easiest though would be to just take the torch to a supplier and see what fits.
It really does sound like your filler wire is at fault to some degree, but I suspect that there are a few other things going on as well, not least of which is that #4 gas shroud plus the excessive stickout, the addition of filler will take more shielding too. Maybe pick up some decent filler when you go to see about your torch. What diameter filler are you running? I generally use 3.2 for everything but you may find 2.4mm a little easier on thinner material <3mm to start with.

Originally Posted by Karl Robbers

Very hard to identify torch from pictures, too many variables. I even checked your sellers store and they don't sell consumables. Possibly a bit of a future lesson there.
If it were me, I would take your torch complete with shroud, collet body and collet to a welding equipment supplier and check to see just what fits.
If I am understanding you correctly, you currently have a gas lens set up, (collet body with the wire mesh diffuser). That being the case, I would guess that if you tried maybe a 53N61 shroud it may fit, that should be a #7 shroud. That is only a blurry crystal ball answer by the way.
Personally, I would not bother with a gas lens and would try to use common consumables. You can get plain collet bodies for most torches and that would be the way I would proceed.
When you can, post a series of photos of your torch stripped down, showing collet body and collet with maybe a couple of dimensions and I will have a look at my product manuals and see what I can find. Easiest though would be to just take the torch to a supplier and see what fits.
It really does sound like your filler wire is at fault to some degree, but I suspect that there are a few other things going on as well, not least of which is that #4 gas shroud plus the excessive stickout, the addition of filler will take more shielding too. Maybe pick up some decent filler when you go to see about your torch. What diameter filler are you running? I generally use 3.2 for everything but you may find 2.4mm a little easier on thinner material <3mm to start with.

ill show u guys my shame welding pictures this 1.6mm stuff is bloody tough to weld kept on melting corners and get a lot of penetration at only 49-56amps

mate to be honest i think this torch is a toss out job ive looked and looked i took the collet,plastic washer,pink thing to the shop they asked strait away is it chinese? they too sold chinese welders but didnt have the parts

and yup spot on its been me all along and how i set it up, the tungsten was to far out by heaps i moved it right in, as im feeding the filler wire i didnt notice but now i have im moving it back to far as i use my two fingers to feed the rod with my thumb to steady my right hand (left handed here)

im using 1.6mm filler rod 5354 or something like that number and the aluminium im welding is 5005

ok just realised i didnt take and pictures of the bad welds i will tomorrow i did however get in one nice weld

What are you cutting your aluminium with? It wouldn't be out of the question for that to be at least part of your issue.
Those last three photos aren't too bad really for someone starting out on 1.6mm material. I've seen far worse.
Given that the welder wasn't expensive, it wouldn't be too much of a bitter pill to fit a WP26 torch - you will get consumables for these anywhere. You can get them for around $70 off ebay (direct out of China) or for a bit more locally.
By the way, here's your torch.
TIG Welder Plasma Cutter TIG Torch QQ150A AIR Cooler TIG Welding Torch Free Ship | eBay
Here are your spare shrouds
Air plasma cutter items - Get great deals on items on eBay Stores!
Collet bodies
Collets Body FOR TIG Welding Torch Parts QQ150A 10pcs | eBay
Collets
Air plasma cutter items - Get great deals on items on eBay Stores!
Back caps
QQ150A TIG Welding Torch Short Back CAP Long Back CAP | eBay
All from China and up to 45 days delivery.
I would throw that torch as far as I could.
I was pretty confident that you would find generic parts, but that torch is the bastard of bastards it seems
You could even spring for a trafimet with remote amperage control - around $250 Magnum Welders - Accessories
Hope this helps.

thanks mate looks like the torch is just a throw away piece of junk since the spares take far to long and there is not a great range not to mention they dont even have sizes

i will try look on ebay for someone in OZ who sells the torch with the same fittings

u havent seen my bad welds yet LOL i nailed that weld i shown in my last post because i had a very even filler rod movement after that i got out of position

the technique im using to push/pull the filler rod while welding is pinching the rod with my thumb and 3rd finger and sliding the filler rod with my 1st and 2nd fingers are there any other easier ways? i copied this from the youtube videos