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  1. #1
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    Default Pulse welder/Plate Boat build

    Looking for a single phase double pulse mig.
    Have come across a T&R multi 250k. Any opinions on these.
    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwcarter View Post
    Looking for a single phase double pulse mig.
    Have come across a T&R multi 250k. Any opinions on these.
    Thanks
    I believe that Magnum welders make one also.
    Why do you want a double pulse mig? I happened to be talking to the Magnum welders man last week at Agfest and we were got onto the subject of double pulse migs. Apparently he has one on trial at Hilton Highgate, (they make truck fuel tanks etc), and they are not proceeding with the double pulse migs and are sticking to single pulse. It could be worth your while to have a chat to him. Magnum Welders - Home
    Fronius also do one I believe, but like most Fronius gear, you will need to mortgage your soul and sell your firstborn son to afford one.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwcarter View Post
    Looking for a single phase double pulse mig.
    Have come across a T&R multi 250k. Any opinions on these.
    Thanks
    Looks like a great little machine on spec and I wish they had been around a couple of years back as I may have gone for this cheaper option, a chap I know said a while back he was thinking of buying a couple so I will try and chase him up and see if he did and how they are going. He uses Fronius otherwise so it would be a good comparo.

    I just do odds and ends at home on my ally boats etc, no a pro welder but I do like the double pulse or single pulse. Because I am not doing production work every day the double pulse helps me get a better weld I think, but if more experienced the single pulse may allow for faster work output as you are not so limited by the programmed double pulse rates. Mind you I am only guessing here as I have observed that most boat building workshops for example seem to favour single pulse.

  4. #4
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    Hi Karl, I do a lot of small aluminium jobs. Having used pulsed/double pulse before, nothing beats it for ease of use vs productivity vs appearance.
    All the major brands do a pulse machine but only in 3 phase. Was looking at a Kemppi Kempact Pulse 3000 for $7700 and a Cea Digistar for $6500 but voltage requirements restrict portability, plus I don't have 3 phase supply and I am renting.
    The only 2 machines I could find are the $3600 Italian/Chinese made T&R and a $6500 Italian Cebora machine. Neither have a great deal of information about them.
    Just need some real world user input about the T&R to make my decision. If all is good I"ll pair it up with a $3600 CEA AC/DC Tig.

    That would be great John if you could get some info comparing it to the Fronius. Think I've seen you around on Ausfish?
    Your right about the single pulse being quicker, still easy to use though. Double pulse is a lot slower when you dial down the pulse frequency, but achieves a tig like finish. Cheers

  5. #5
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    Lol you would have seen me around Ausfish, my boating interest being my main reason for DIY welding. I spoke to my friend tonight re the T&R. He talked about his experience where he was involved in the purchase for another chap we both know.
    Anyhow he said that at the demo by the LWS, the thing was set up to fail by the guy there but somehow still managed to get some decent results, ie enough to hand over the cash. Since then the owner of the machine has gone through a bit of frustration with it and particularly in the absence of a decent or any owner manual it has been a bit of guessing trying to set up special parameters. However reports are that he is getting some good results now and the opinion form my friend who owns the Fronius is that it is possibly 90% as good.

    The gun they chose is an adjustable one so you can control the heat on the fly but at this stage there seems to be a delay when operating it up or down so that is just another parameter setting to try and configure but will no doubt be sorted out and I think the Rep is supposed to sort that up. The gun that was supplied gets warm after a little welding compared to the Fronius but it is probably a lower duty gun I would imagine. The one I have with the Kemppi is 400Amp and takes a fair bit of welding to heat up much where I am mostly welding at around 130 amps.

    At the end of the discussion he said that he would be happy to buy the T&R himself for the saving compared to the Fronius and it seems a very capable and surprising machine for the money. So it was pretty positive overall

    It would be fair to say with any of these types of machines there are many settings that can be tweaked to get optimum out of them and also to suit your individual style and welding needs so a bit of patience may be required if you know what I mean. My Kemppi is no different with just about everything you can think of is adjustable if you know how, but to be honest I try and stick to the default settings and adjust myself to work with them although I would like to at least up the hot start a little and forgotten how to do it. Hopefully in the book, otherwise I will have to annoy the rep..

  6. #6
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    That's right I was following your origin build. Nice looking boat.
    Thanks a lot for that info John, your a top bloke.
    Plate alloy Australia also uses these migs in there boat building training school. So with your extra good feed back I'll go and pick one up today with a bit of material to give it a work out tomorrow.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for your kind words, much appreciated and yes thanks the little Origin has come up really good.
    I just hope you have a good experience with the T&R now.
    Please let us know how it goes and what you think of it. It certainly seems to fill a void in the market for an affordable single phase Pulse MIG with similar features to units 3 times the price.

    My friend was telling me last night of another Fronius owner who uses the machine in his business is looking at a $4k part to get his going again. Not the first time I have heard that sort of money quoted so as good as they are they still fail and cost $$$$ to fix.
    If my Kemppi was to fail and they quoted $4K for a part I think I might be putting it aside and buying a T&R.

  8. #8
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    Picked it up today for a total cost of $3,738.24. Will be making a trolley for it tomorrow. Will post up some pics and comment how it goes. cheers

    - Mig Torch - Aluminium Set-up
    - Set of Aluminium Drive Rollers
    - Gas Regulator & Hose
    - 4m Earth Lead
    - 4m Electrode Lead
    - Set of Swivel Castors
    - Binzel 1.2mm Aluminium M6-8mm Tip
    - 1.2mm Safra 5356 Aluminium

  9. #9
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    Wow, amazing price for all that. A spool of Safra 1.2 as well, seems like nice wire.
    Are you making the trolley in ally with the new machine? I notice most of the boat builders make their trolley's nice and high with the front a little lower so the wire exiting the machine is running downhill from the start. Seems like a good idea and every bit of help to make that wire feed smoothly is good.
    Looking forward to hearing your feedback on it.

  10. #10
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    I think my little Lincoln 180 will be up for sale. This thing is bloody fantastic compared to it. Had no feed issues/burn backs at all, synergic settings were a piece of cake to use, it was just a pleasure to weld.
    Mainly just played with the single pulse for tacking and short stitches and a slow double pulse for everything else.

    Only gripe like John said, was the instructions. The manual is very brief and doesn't mention anything about the secret parameters hidden in the secret parameters which I found. It states contact your dealer for more information. mmmmm. I wonder if they would really no all the secrets.
    Oh another gripe is the red/yellow rotary isolator on the front, looks a bit Chineasy. Would of preferred it on the back hidden.

    Anyhow here's some pics
    20130508_093545.jpg20130512_160401.jpg20130512_160448.jpg20130512_160601.jpg20130512_160622.jpg20130512_160654.jpg

  11. #11
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    That sounds like good news and very glad to hear the T&R runs nicely. The pics are fabulous and assuming that you knocked up that welder trolley with your new machine, a very nice job indeed. I like the height you gave it and all the shelves and attachments should serve you well.
    Looks very clean, did you acid wash it all when finished welding?
    You must be a bit experienced with welding Ally, well I hope you are, my welds not quite that good.

    Hopefully you will be able to track down the info you need to go into the setup parameters and talking to my friend earlier in the week he said that he was around at his mates place trying to help him with some settings and although the manual was lacking it was very similar in a lot of ways to the Fronius in it's design so he was able to do what he needed to.

    My Kemppi has a similar style switch on the front but it's black so if it really bugs you, it may be possible to get a black one and replace it.
    Do you mind saying who you bought yours through and how you found transaction so far???

    Anyway thanks for your report and pics and I hope it gives you good years of service

  12. #12
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    Thanks John. I was a busy boy yesterday getting things done. Having a mitre saw and a pretty good idea of what i was making sped things up. Most of it was pre-designed on paper before I got the welder. It ll fit a fronius, kemppi, Cea and other migs i was considering purchasing.
    Very little testing was needed to get the right welds. The synergic programming was pretty close. Just had a piece of scrap similar to what I was welding and test/adjust before doing final run.
    Need to work on the hot start a bit, welds were a bit high in some places without pre heating.
    Yep, brushed over some alibrite last night cleans ally up nice.

    I began welding ally January last year with the little Lincoln 180c mig. Found it very difficult, but became better. Have had some training during tafe doing an electrical apprenticeship.
    Originally brought the Lincoln to do up an old tinnie, now I'm addicted to welding. Ultimate goal is to build my own boat much like yours John. In the meantime its trailor cages, ute cages, tig/mig stands, sign light brackets and whatever else i can think of.

    Phoned unimig today and they sent a technical manual which shed some light on a few things. Have to call them again to find out the meanings of some terms.
    Thats a good idea will download a couple of manuals for similar machines to check out.
    Purchased from ACL industries in Bundaberg, seem pretty helpful so far.

    Next is purchasing the Tig. Pretty keen on the CEA Matrix. Not so keen on the price. This is another welder with not to much info on it.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwcarter View Post
    I think my little Lincoln 180 will be up for sale. This thing is bloody fantastic compared to it. Had no feed issues/burn backs at all, synergic settings were a piece of cake to use, it was just a pleasure to weld.
    Mainly just played with the single pulse for tacking and short stitches and a slow double pulse for everything else.

    Only gripe like John said, was the instructions. The manual is very brief and doesn't mention anything about the secret parameters hidden in the secret parameters which I found. It states contact your dealer for more information. mmmmm. I wonder if they would really no all the secrets.
    Oh another gripe is the red/yellow rotary isolator on the front, looks a bit Chineasy. Would of preferred it on the back hidden.

    Anyhow here's some pics
    20130508_093545.jpg20130512_160401.jpg20130512_160448.jpg20130512_160601.jpg20130512_160622.jpg20130512_160654.jpg
    Not to take anything away from this machine but you said the switch looked a bit ''chineasy''. Well the machine is and they are rebranded under whatever distributor.

  14. #14
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    Yes, Italian spec made in China at Shenzhen Riland Industry.
    Don't no about re-badging though. Thought they were trade marked to T&R. Haven't seen anything similar to this in my search. Let me know if you come across one.
    Cheers.

  15. #15
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    John, just found your weld samples in weldermicks thread (Oh and your boat, looks awesome with that T top), no expert myself but I notice fish tailing on the beads. I found that not moving with the pulse creates this or moving to fast.
    My setup was using 0.6Hz pulse, gun position more upright than usual and moving with the pulse....... deposit - move with off pulse -deposit and so on. Also found by moving the weld pool in a circular pattern while moving in off pulse you can achieve a flatter bead with better edge tie in. Hope that helps.

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