Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Needs Pictures Needs Pictures:  0
Picture(s) thanks Picture(s) thanks:  0
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Coffs Harbour
    Posts
    9

    Default Welding bisalloy

    Hello All
    Joined this site for the woodworking because that's my hobby.
    I am a toolmaker by day.

    I was asked to do a job the other day welding some big bisalloy plate.
    It is 12mm to 25 mm plate ( fillet weld )
    I have never welded bisalloy before.
    As yet I am not sure what grade of plate it is, they said they will find out.

    I know that people will want more info, but I thought I would start the thread while I gather said info.
    I have been on the net doing some research, but it is a bit
    I have a water cooled 3200 Kemppi.

    Thanks in advance
    Andrew

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Mornington Peninsula
    Posts
    183

    Default

    Are you welding the plates together or are they a wear plate being welded onto mild steel?

    http://bisalloy.yurtest.net/applicat...20bisplate.pdf

    Cheers

    Justin

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Coffs Harbour
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Yes I am welding the plates together.
    There is approx 3 meters of weld.
    The sample has approx 12-14 mm leg length fillet.

    I will get some pics of the job when I can.

    Thanks
    Andrew

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Coffs Harbour
    Posts
    9

    Default pics

    Here is a pic of the job in question
    mini-Picture 004.jpg

    It is the keel off a large racing yacht.
    The rectangular hole in the face is where a fabricated box section protrudes through the flange.
    Both the box section 12mm and the flange 25mm are bisalloy
    It is then welded on both sides. Flush on the face of the flange (V grooved ) and a fillet on the back edge.
    The stud that you can see protruding from the flange is one of 12, M25 stainless studs which are used to hold the keel to the bottom of the boat.
    The keel assembly weighs approx 2.5 tons

    I know I haven't explained it that well.
    The only reason that I am going to do the job is to learn a little about welding bisalloy.
    The material is bisalloy 80.

    Thanks
    Andrew
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Coffs Harbour
    Posts
    9

    Default assembly thingy

    OOPS I hope I didn't do that.
    If I did I didn't mean to.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    60
    Posts
    95

    Default

    Hi, I am not sure why you are attempting this job if you have no experience in it. It also suggests that no body else there where you work has either. Dealing with a heavy weighted keel as what you say is not something to experiment with. If you are to learn on this welding job it should be overseen by someone with the right experience or not attempted at all.

    This type of job may require some form of weld test ( xray etc ) in order to be approved before fitting up and you should at least find out. The onus will fall on the company taking the job on and i would not want to tied into it if something went wrong and your lack of experience was the contributing factor. Its great to learn but make sure you have the right people to teach you and if the company fires a bullet in your back if it "keels over'' ( i could not resist).
    Be wary.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Woodstock (Cowra)
    Age
    75
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobre View Post
    Hi, I am not sure why you are attempting this job if you have no experience in it. It also suggests that no body else there where you work has either. Dealing with a heavy weighted keel as what you say is not something to experiment with. If you are to learn on this welding job it should be overseen by someone with the right experience or not attempted at all.

    This type of job may require some form of weld test ( xray etc ) in order to be approved before fitting up and you should at least find out. The onus will fall on the company taking the job on and i would not want to tied into it if something went wrong and your lack of experience was the contributing factor. Its great to learn but make sure you have the right people to teach you and if the company fires a bullet in your back if it "keels over'' ( i could not resist).
    Be wary.
    I would agree. Somewhere in the deep depths of my dubious memory, there was a court case about 3 to 5 years ago involving an almost identical situation where someone had done some work on a boat and the welds failed, boat went base over turkey, someone lost their life and it all ended with the person who did the work.

    Your call, be wise
    The person who never made a mistake never made anything

    Cheers
    Ray

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    60
    Posts
    95

    Default

    Welds can still fail even when all the correct things were done. The welds can be flawless, welded by certified or qualified welders and pass all the tests under the sun but ay least this way if something failed and causes damage, personal injury or loss of life, the company and people involved at least have a leg to stand on. This at best would be ruled an accident as all the correct things were done and done to the industry standard.
    My comment is to simply make you aware of the risks involved and if this is not your companies main line of work I would keep a good distance from it. If they tell you "youll be right mate" I would be worried.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,447

    Default

    If its a job through work let them organise a Certified Welding Supervisor to write you a welding procedure.

    As its a fairly complex procedure its best overseen by a competent person ie welding supervisor.

    Your consumable ( mig wire) will need to be matched to to the Bis 80.
    The welding will have to comply with Australian Standard 1554, parts 4 &5. Do you ( your company) have copies as the price will astound you?

    Also you have to be careful of the heat inputs and control them well.

    Grahame

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Roxby Downs Sth Aust
    Age
    47
    Posts
    205

    Default

    hi , ive been in the maintenance game for years now (18 years) and dealt with bisalloy over this period, weldall's or stainless electrodes are used in the welding application of bis. nothing to it, if you can weld well with a gp then you won't have any probs with a down hand weld using weldalls or stainless rods.

    good luck.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,447

    Default

    Kraits
    With respect,we are not dealing with a piece of mining equipment ,but something that really can't be allowed to fail.
    Its a document that behooves any potential welder to read and follow it for fear of welding something that can bear extreme consequences if it fails.A C&P from the Bisalloy 80 manufacturer recommendations, follows.

    <
    COOLING RATE
    Limitations on both preheat and heat input are necessary to ensure that the HAZ cools at an appropriate rate and that the correct hardness and microstructure are achieved. Too slow a cooling rate can result in a soft HAZ and thus a loss of tensile and fracture toughness properties. Too rapid a cooling rate produces a hard HAZ which may cause loss of ductility.


    PREHEAT/HEAT INPUT
    The preheat/heat input recommendations outlined in tables 2 and 3 will ensure that the cooling rate of the HAZ is satisfactory.>

    The poster states he has a Kemppi 3200 water cooled,which is a MIG. Bisalloy recommend a GMAW wire from the W76xx grade.


    Go into Google and read about the keel snapping off the Excalibur.It was down to shoddy work and men died and a man nearly went to jail over it.There a other similar instances also mentioned in other google links.

    Extreme caution on the part of the welder fabricator needs to be exercised here.Fitness for purpose puts a real focus on this job.

    Take care

    Grahame

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    formerly from Sydney (north of The Harbour), NSW, Oz
    Age
    68
    Posts
    306

    Default

    regards from Canmore

    ian

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Mornington Peninsula
    Posts
    183

    Default

    When I worked in NZ they welded in Bisalloy wear plates on dump truck bodies with flux cored SS MIG wire.

    From memory they did pre-heat as well.

    What I don't understand is why Bisalloy was chosen for a yacht keel? Seems over kill to me. I was in the marine industry for quite some time and it was always just mild steel plate that was used. (It has been a while though I might add)

    Cheers

    Justin

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Roxby Downs Sth Aust
    Age
    47
    Posts
    205

    Default

    [QUOTE=

    What I don't understand is why Bisalloy was chosen for a yacht keel? Seems over kill to me. I was in the marine industry for quite some time and it was always just mild steel plate that was used. (It has been a while though I might add)

    Cheers

    Justin[/QUOTE]


    might be panning on carving up a reef

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    formerly from Sydney (north of The Harbour), NSW, Oz
    Age
    68
    Posts
    306

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarh73 View Post
    When I worked in NZ they welded in Bisalloy wear plates on dump truck bodies with flux cored SS MIG wire.

    From memory they did pre-heat as well.
    Hi Justin

    there's a vast difference in risk between a yacht keel and wear plates on a dump truck. If a wear plate weld fails, the consequences are minor to insignificant -- the production manager will be a little peeved that one of his trucks is off the raod being repaired, but otherwise who really cares.

    But if a yacht keel falls off
    the vessel capsizes
    people are lost at sea
    coroner and police are involved
    responsible parties loose house, livelihood, reputation, go to jail (in some countries manslaughter is a capital offence)

    I think a yacht keels call for prudence and as close to 100% perfect as you can get
    regards from Canmore

    ian

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. welding
    By rabbito in forum METALWORK GENERAL
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 29th Oct 2011, 11:21 PM
  2. lpg for welding
    By wodstok in forum WELDING
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 28th Jul 2010, 09:23 AM
  3. Welding gal
    By Groggy in forum WELDING
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10th May 2009, 11:00 PM
  4. Bisalloy question...
    By Yonnee in forum WELDING
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 4th Mar 2008, 12:20 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •