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motegi
6th May 2009, 11:55 PM
Hi All,

Thanks to everyone for contributing to my other thread, I have now started the building of the my ute. I've posted some pics, I'm considering doing some 45degree 50x50 brace at each corner "just incase". My welds are actually quite average and I'm hoping if some of you more experienced guys can tell me if this will hold?

I've sat and bounced on the middle brace it seems very sturdy...

Any tips on welding? I seem to have issues with starting the arc, sometimes taking more than 20 tries before i can ignite the rod.

First weld
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/motegi/IMG_1410.jpg

Close up of weld.
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/motegi/IMG_1411.jpg


http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/motegi/IMG_1412.jpg

One issue I had was that there were fairly large gaps so i stuck the end of a piece in the gap to weld over, is there any problems with that?
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/motegi/IMG_1413.jpg

on the saw horse...
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/motegi/IMG_1414.jpg

Close up of the weld. Grounded excess of the welds...
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/motegi/IMG_1417.jpg

motegi
11th May 2009, 01:45 AM
I've had to grind back all the welds i did the first night as they weren't great and in the interest of safety I'd rather redo them.

Here I've dummied up the draw bar on the main frame...I'm using 75x50x3mm draw bar, they are heavy as! As you can see I've added a corner brace on then front seeing thats where the the draw b ar exerts the most force on the chasis.



http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/motegi/IMG_1442-1.jpg

The drawbar now welded in place...

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/motegi/IMG_1459.jpg


I've added two plates to connect the drawbar to the chasis, Dont know if that is overkill, anyone see any issue with the welding the plate on?
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/motegi/IMG_1460-1.jpg


Close up of the plates...

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/motegi/IMG_1461.jpg

Woodwould
11th May 2009, 10:43 AM
No offence intended, but I wouldn't take a trailer on the public roads with porous welds like those. You may not be concerned about your own safety or that of the contents of the trailer, but you have a resposnibility towards other road users.

I would recommend either having a fresh frame welded up by an accomplished welder, or take tertiary lessons in welding before proceding. Just my opinion (I used to be a motorsports scrutineer and I've seen some nasty accidents caused by chicken poo welds).

mikm
11th May 2009, 01:32 PM
:iagree:

But dont loose heart now. By posting close-ups of your current (no pun intended) welds, you sould now get some useful feedback from some of the knowledgable types that haunt these pages on how to do it properly. Your photo headed with "Close up of the weld. Grounded excess of the welds..." is the sort of problem that Woodwould was probably talking about. The guts of the weld has no filler materail in it being full of slag and has no structural integrity whatsoever. At present, your trailer empty would very likely bounce to bits in no time behind a vehicle, let alone full, so get it re-done properly or hang around here for a bit to learn some theory and then do lots of practice on some scrap. Or do a TAFE course as previously mentioned. Your first beads should NOT be on a road-going vehicle.
Good luck and keep at it; with the welding and this thread - it should be a good learning experience for you and the rest of us bird 5h1t welders.

martrix
11th May 2009, 01:36 PM
do not put that on the road. A trailer is way too ambitious for a first welding project.

Make a few other things first, like a cart to hold and move around all of you welding gear.

motegi
11th May 2009, 01:43 PM
Thanks Mikm!

Those are actually old welds for the frame, the one close up of the bracket actually has 3-4 layers of welds and i did make sure the first one nice and clean with good penetration...It was with consequent layers that screw me over cos i couldn''t spark properly...The weld there has 4-5 mm of welds!!!

The below are more what my other welds look like...Not great but i think they will hold.

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/motegi/IMG_1440.jpg


http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/motegi/IMG_1435.jpg

I've had the mobs in the welding section dissect to make sure they are strong enough...

how many trailers ( of this size) do you see this heavily engineered with all the extra braces everywhere...I'd be surprised if this dont't hold together...

Woodwould
11th May 2009, 02:59 PM
I didn't mean to urinate on your fire, but sometime one has to be blunt. I still wouldn't call that last weld satisfactory; there's too much evidence of previous inclusions. That's one of the problems you'll encounter with porous welds, it's nigh on impossible to weld properly over the top of them, even if you try and grind them back first. That's why I recommended begining afresh.

Just because you have a pile of steel in the frame doesn't make it safe. Don't forget, with the excess of steel, all you're doing is adding mass which the (poor) welds won't be able to cope with. Properly welded with less steel would make a much better and safer trailer.

I would keep practicing until you can make consistent welds that look like you've piped soft butter along the seams. A hint that you've got the welder settings correct for the material thickness, wire diameter and angle of attack etc. is that it should sound like cold bacon straight out of the fridge, sizzling on a really hot frying pan. :U

soundman
14th May 2009, 12:54 AM
On the subject of your welding.

Stick welding takes a bit of knoweledge and a bit of skill......if I have not done much for a while it takes me a good couple of hours to get my welding up to scratch.

I strogly recommend you get a pile of scrap pieces of metal similar to what you are working with and spend an hour or two getting up to speed.

You need to have the right size rod, the right amount of current and the right presentation & speed.

I find welding 2 to 3mm RHS I get better flat welds with 2.5mm rods and better first pass corner welds with 2mm rods. and about 65 70 amps (on my welder)...the current scales on some welders are far from accurate.

If you are getting slag inclusions, as pictured early on the most common cause is insufficient current.

You should be able to weld over the gap pictured with out any problems.... the trick is to angle the rod away from the thin end and drag the puddle across to it... tending to dwell on the edge side more and the end side less.

Once you think you are up to speed.......get out the hammer and break some welds.

You realy have to get rid of all traces of slag before welding over.....often a chipping iron will not do it and grinding it all out just makes a bigger hole......I find a hammer and a centre punch or a nail punch followed by a wire brush is the goods.

I find stick welding frustrating because even when I am up to speed, 1 in 4 of my welds needs a grind and redo.... particularly the V welds.

here is a test.......get a piece of RHS... like you are working with......do only 1 weld.....grind it flush......then smack it with a hammer......do you have near full thickness weld?

With mig any dummy can make decent welds in a short time, Oxy I love because you can see the quality of your weld as you go.

BUT stick requires practice, .... now my brother is a hard core metal work tradesman who grew up when stick was king....I have seen him do bad welds when his eye is not in and he is using a strange machine.

Fresh good quality rods help too

on the matter of starting your rods....you need to start your rods before you expect to weld with them......I sometimes clamp a piece of plate near where I am welding to start my rods on....so i don't have pidgeon s##t everywhere on the job.
Some rods dont strike well cold, so you have to re start them even if you only stopped a few seconds ago.

your welds realy should look better than the ones pictured.

cheers