PDA

View Full Version : Hercuse in Sydney you guys have all the fun



new_guy90
27th Apr 2009, 02:19 PM
ok i want a lathe and im constanty looking at the H&F website for second hand lathes and machines (all to expensive for me) and there all in Sydney or Melbourne :( owell us here in sunny Queensland cant have everything :p

oh yeah theres a nice Hercus in Sydney at H&F that looks in great condition with full cabinet see it here (https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=XLA60) know that i dont have anything to do with H&F and im simply telling you guys about it because it looks like a very interesting model that would be great in a workshop i just wish i had the money for it :((

wheelinround
27th Apr 2009, 02:21 PM
a few lathes in QLD on e-pay

new_guy90
27th Apr 2009, 05:33 PM
a few lathes in QLD on e-pay

yeah saw them some are cheap but not what im looking for :(( then look at the ones from Sydney and Melbourne, i saw an advanced lathe in Sydney, a tiny 7" (i think) Hercus somewhere in NSW hell even a Dean Smith & Grace for a very nice price (to high for me :(() owell i want to get a lathe not sure if i will yet

blackfrancis
27th Apr 2009, 05:42 PM
That Hercus Crafsman sure looks nice Patrick. You're always likely to pay more if you buy from a dealer. I have a different problem to you, currently I've got nowhere to put anything.

If you join a local model engineering club you could put the word out that you're after a lathe.

I second the ebay suggestion. If you keep your eyes on ebay regularly you will probably find something turn up. You may be a good chance to pick up an old hobby lathe, say 7" swing, for less than $500 if you perserver. Watch out for screwcutting lathes without a gear box that don't have the set of change gears. Replacing them can be expensive and difficult.

I've seen lathes like the Qualos Junior, the Advance etc. pop up on ebay from time to time. You may find the bigger Qualos lathe pop up on ebay a bit too, I think there's a few of them about. The older machines, which are still capable of making good stuff, somtimes go pretty cheap. I saw a very early LeBlond regal go sub $1000 bucks once. That could have been a good machine. Hercus model C lathes can also be picked up at reasonable prices. The old Mars lathes, such as the Hercules and even old belt driven Colchesters pop up from time to time.

If you get an old clunker for minimal outlay now, you can always replace it with something better down the track when you have more money.

Old lathes are likely to have worn beds. But if the price is right you can still make all sorts of stuff on a lathe with a worn bed.

new_guy90
27th Apr 2009, 05:58 PM
That Hercus Crafsman sure looks nice Patrick. You're always likely to pay more if you buy from a dealer. I have a different problem to you, currently I've got nowhere to put anything.

If you join a local model engineering club you could put the word out that you're after a lathe.

I second the ebay suggestion. If you keep your eyes on ebay regularly you will probably find something turn up. You may be a good chance to pick up an old hobby lathe, say 7" swing, for less than $500 if you perserver. Watch out for screwcutting lathes without a gear box that don't have the set of change gears. Replacing them can be expensive and difficult.

I've seen lathes like the Qualos Junior, the Advance etc. pop up on ebay from time to time. You may find the bigger Qualos lathe pop up on ebay a bit too, I think there's a few of them about. The older machines, which are still capable of making good stuff, somtimes go pretty cheap. I saw a very early LeBlond regal go sub $1000 bucks once. That could have been a good machine. Hercus model C lathes can also be picked up at reasonable prices. The old Mars lathes, such as the Hercules and even old belt driven Colchesters pop up from time to time.

If you get an old clunker for minimal outlay now, you can always replace it with something better down the track when you have more money.

Old lathes are likely to have worn beds. But if the price is right you can still make all sorts of stuff on a lathe with a worn bed.

oh i really want a lathe but i dont want to settle for a worn out piece of junk that will never do any accurate work and the only good thing about them are they are cheap :(

now i would love to have this Advanced (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Metal-Lathe-Handyman-size_W0QQitemZ280338531094QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_BnI_Woodworking_Metalworking?hash=item280338531094&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A4%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318) BUT ITS IN SYDNEY. i know of one Hercus lathe in Brisbane listed on the Gregory machinery web site but its $1500 money im not sure i have and then theres the tooling to get and setting it all up proper i think id go for the little TNC lathe or the BIG old iron for some fun ...........lol is this ok to talk about in the hercus forum :p

blackfrancis
27th Apr 2009, 09:04 PM
With some luck and patience something like that Advance may pop up in Qld. Alternatively you could look into getting it shipped.

SurfinNev
28th Apr 2009, 12:28 AM
If you want an Advance look for the Tapered Roller Bearing Headstock model and make sure it comes with change gears. They are often missing. You can adapt a set of Myford Change Gears.

An Advance Lathe Website -

http://www.titaniumstudios.com/tooljunkie/advance.html

I wrote the section on how to dismantle and reassemble the Tapered Bearing Headstock model. I still have not completed the rebuild on this lathe yet.

Nev

new_guy90
3rd May 2009, 06:20 PM
well was i the only one biding on this (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Lathe-metalworking-collectors-item_W0QQitemZ200335792333QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_BnI_Woodworking_Metalworking?hash=item200335792333&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A4%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318) or were some of you biding to? started cheap then went through the roof!!!! and man when i started i wasn't looking for a lathe but the more i looked the more i wanted a lathe any lathe so now i may have to go Asian and get a small mini lathes ............thinking about it they can do more than a beat up hercus and who cares id you break it?

there is one other option but is $1500 a good price to pay for a hercus? i know that some people have paid over $2000 for theres but is it a good deal or not?

pipeclay
3rd May 2009, 06:34 PM
Could be a terriffic deal for the seller,
Depending what if any tooling or extras come with it as well as what model it is.
The age of this lathe or any small bench lathe isnt really of a great concern,whats more important is how well its been treated.
A lathe 40 yrs old could be in a lot better condition than one a few yrs old.
Working a machine hard doesnt mean its had it not keeping up with day to day and periodic maintainence does.
In regards to your of $1500 it might be ok but for that money it would need to have a good selection of extras,if possable I would also be doing a personal inspection.

new_guy90
3rd May 2009, 06:48 PM
can find that all out latter but have to wait till tuesday, oh i want a lathe its either a metal lathe or the vl100 owell there both expensive

blackfrancis
3rd May 2009, 08:40 PM
Yep - At $1500 you'd probably want it to be a roller bearing model A in top condition or alternatively have some good stuff with it. The going rate for a good model A 260 is probably more.

Second hand lathes don't cost what they used to, so keep in mind what people paid may have been some time back.

Buying second hand is all about waiting for the right deal to come up. If you want to get value for money you'll have to be patient. If you don't see the machine first you should probably err towards the condition being bad.

So is the vl100 a wood lathe?

new_guy90
3rd May 2009, 10:12 PM
Yep - At $1500 you'd probably want it to be a roller bearing model A in top condition or alternatively have some good stuff with it. The going rate for a good model A 260 is probably more.

Second hand lathes don't cost what they used to, so keep in mind what people paid may have been some time back.

Buying second hand is all about waiting for the right deal to come up. If you want to get value for money you'll have to be patient. If you don't see the machine first you should probably err towards the condition being bad.

So is the vl100 a wood lathe?

yeah i want a new wood lathe

back to the metal lathes i did some more looking and found a great big Colchester triumph circa 1950's for $1200 but its 3 phase and looks very heavy ill ask else where about this lathe but if anyone has used one of these lathes i would love to hear from them oh its a round head lathe kinda art deco i would love to have it. i also found another hercus in great condition but no price tag ( it was labled hercus/myford how do you mix them up?) and a myford on a cabinet set up for jig boreing but missing the compound slide, tool post and tail stock, the price was far to high and it looked beat up

i can afford the hercus and it would be so much easier and size suited for me but if its a high price im not going to pay, i have used a 260 before at school didnt like it much because it had been very abused :(

ill call about both these lathes on tuesday and hopefully go see them when i have time (got some work this next 2 weeks)

oh and just for comparison a normal bench lathe has what 1hp well that triumph is 5hp :p wouldn't that be nice

blackfrancis
4th May 2009, 12:22 PM
If the Colchester is in ok nick, has sufficient accessories, and you want something that size I don't think you'll go too far wrong with it at that price, they are reliable and capable machines.

We had 260's when I was at school but ours were only a few years old and in excellent condition. I think they're far and away the best Hercus. If you had poor teachers they might not have had the lathe's adjusted properly which would make them seem terrible. In the old days all the trade teachers were qualified tradesmen and taught their trade only, not sure if that's still the case.

I think a Hercus came with half horespower with single motor pulley and 3/4 with twin pulley. A typical belt driven lathe can't come close to using up 1hp. With carbide cutting tool at high speed that Colchester will eat up 5hp at the blink of an eye.

new_guy90
4th May 2009, 05:29 PM
If the Colchester is in ok nick, has sufficient accessories, and you want something that size I don't think you'll go too far wrong with it at that price, they are reliable and capable machines.

We had 260's when I was at school but ours were only a few years old and in excellent condition. I think they're far and away the best Hercus. If you had poor teachers they might not have had the lathe's adjusted properly which would make them seem terrible. In the old days all the trade teachers were qualified tradesmen and taught their trade only, not sure if that's still the case.

I think a Hercus came with half horespower with single motor pulley and 3/4 with twin pulley. A typical belt driven lathe can't come close to using up 1hp. With carbide cutting tool at high speed that Colchester will eat up 5hp at the blink of an eye.

yeah the 260's were in very poor order and the teachers didnt teach you how to use them at all really just "do this and this and show the next person how to do it" really it wasn't the best way to learn, the teacher said if we broke it we wouldnt have it anymore and so he wouldnt fix it if we did :? really shoddy

i have been doing some more thinking on the colchester and im not sure what it is :? but i dont think its overly bigger than a hercus and i could have it in my shop but i would have to mount it properly and sort out the motor oh we are going to get a sparky in to do some stuff in the shed how much do you guys think it would cost to put in 3 phase?

heres a pic off the website (http://www.mendham.com.au/images/stock/651_SN3060%20Colchester%20Lathe.jpg)

.RC.
4th May 2009, 05:57 PM
how much do you guys think it would cost to put in 3 phase?




Many, many thousands..Energex will firstly want their bit, maybe $10 000 if the three phase is close, more if you need a new transformer and other bits and pieces (you have to pay for the twenty men they will send to do the job...1 working, 19 watching on)

Then you need to install a couple of new meters in the meter box, most likely have to lay new cable to your shed as the old conduit won't be big enough for the extra wires..New fuse box and then some three phase switches...

It would have cost me $20 000+ to get three phase on here, Ergon/Energex would have wanted $15 000 alone to run one wire 300m and a transformer..I got a 10hp phase converter installed for about $7000..

As for the lathe...Depending on what you want to do, if you are new to lathes and get a worn out one it will be the worst thing possible...You will not know if your poor work will be due to your skills or the lathe...At the very least try to get someone who at least knows a bit about machine tools to accompany you when you go for a look...

My first lathe was a worn out piece of scrap metal and I never knew if the poor work it produced was because of me or the machine...After I bought my new one a few years later it turns out the poor work was both from me and the worn lathe.. When I got the new one I was able to teach myself better skills where today I an just not so crap as I was... You would be surprised how hard it is to work to close tolerances even on a new machine...

blackfrancis
4th May 2009, 06:19 PM
"My first lathe was a worn out piece of scrap metal and I never knew if the poor work it produced was because of me or the machine...After I bought my new one a few years later it turns out the poor work was both from me and the worn lathe."

That sounds like my first experience. I kept thinking the lathe was set up twisted, but it was actually worn out. In my experience there are alot of heavily worn machines on the second hand market.

new_guy90
4th May 2009, 07:10 PM
Many, many thousands..Energex will firstly want their bit, maybe $10 000 if the three phase is close, more if you need a new transformer and other bits and pieces (you have to pay for the twenty men they will send to do the job...1 working, 19 watching on)

Then you need to install a couple of new meters in the meter box, most likely have to lay new cable to your shed as the old conduit won't be big enough for the extra wires..New fuse box and then some three phase switches...

It would have cost me $20 000+ to get three phase on here, Ergon/Energex would have wanted $15 000 alone to run one wire 300m and a transformer..I got a 10hp phase converter installed for about $7000..

As for the lathe...Depending on what you want to do, if you are new to lathes and get a worn out one it will be the worst thing possible...You will not know if your poor work will be due to your skills or the lathe...At the very least try to get someone who at least knows a bit about machine tools to accompany you when you go for a look...

My first lathe was a worn out piece of scrap metal and I never knew if the poor work it produced was because of me or the machine...After I bought my new one a few years later it turns out the poor work was both from me and the worn lathe.. When I got the new one I was able to teach myself better skills where today I an just not so crap as I was... You would be surprised how hard it is to work to close tolerances even on a new machine...

well that means ill have to replace the motor or fix a phase converter well that can be done latter. yes i have a fair bit of experience with machine tools, i was taught on engine lathes at the railway and have done work with CNC's im going back to work next week for some time should be good. i can see how a worn machine will give very bad results for the noob and combine that with carbide tooling well that will all make your head spin but i know how to check for the problems and how to work with a bad machine. the place i was working had an engine lathe that was utter crap!!! you could tell as soon as you used it thats for sure. i dont want to get an asian machine because ill be payind double for what i can get for a secondhand one with the same features and if its in good condition why not? not saying asian machines are bad or that second hand machines are all good :~

anyway isnt this off topic of this sub forum lol :jacked:

pipeclay
4th May 2009, 07:42 PM
I thought you said earlier that you would probably go Asian as they could do much more than a crappy Hercus and who cares if you break it.

.RC.
4th May 2009, 07:47 PM
i dont want to get an asian machine because ill be payind double for what i can get for a secondhand one with the same features and if its in good condition why not?


Hope you have better luck then I did trying to find a good second hand machine for a good price in Queensland..

blackfrancis
4th May 2009, 08:13 PM
There's some pretty good food for thought on checking out second hand lathes to be had here.

http://www.mermac.com/advicenew.html

If I was going to check out some second hand lathes I'd be reading it and making a strategy for deciding what is up to scratch and what's not. You want this clear in your mind before you get there. If you really know what you're doing you will be able to identify significantly worn ways instantly by their visual appearance.

new_guy90
4th May 2009, 09:18 PM
There's some pretty good food for thought on checking out second hand lathes to be had here.

http://www.mermac.com/advicenew.html

If I was going to check out some second hand lathes I'd be reading it and making a strategy for deciding what is up to scratch and what's not. You want this clear in your mind before you get there. If you really know what you're doing you will be able to identify significantly worn ways instantly by their visual appearance.

fairly simple to check the ways, yeah i did read that page on how to check a lathe a long time ago it was very helpful.

ok yeah i could go Asian but really what is there for under $1500? you really only have 3 to chose from and they will all need some work to get them to there full potential and have there limitations. i have seen a few of these and im not really impressed but ill go to H&F and have a look just the same. still tomorrow ill call up these machines listed on the net and see whats worth it oh and check everything else that would be needed these things need to be thought about

Edit: well gave the people a call the Colchester was sold, one place i have to get back to for information on there older hercus, i do know it comes with 4 and 3 jaw chucks and collets. the other place has a hercus 260 ex school lathe with 3 jaw chuck but nothing else oh and its 3 phase but talking to the guy he said they have replacement motors that they could put in it. so now i just have to get back to these guys with the older model, go see everyone and try and get the price right

franco
8th May 2009, 02:41 AM
Patrick,

For future reference - a word of warning - I looked at a round head 12x36 Colchester a few years ago, which was in fair to poor condition and missing some of the loose change gears for thread cutting. I rang the Colchester agents for a ball-park price to replace these - they were available, probably from England, but the price for just the missing gears was well over the cost of a brand new Chinese 12x36 gear head lathe with all the standard chucks, faceplate, tool kit, steadies etc. delivered to Cairns! The gears have an unusual 3 splined centre, so cannot easily be replaced with stock items, so if you are ever tempted to get a Colchester, get a rough quote on the cost of any missing bits before you commit yourself!

Frank

aljunk
8th May 2009, 07:06 AM
HI Guys,
I see a lot of discussion regarding 3 phase power here lately and thought I should share my recent experience. A few weeks ago I purchased a new milling machine which came with a 3 HP 3 phase 220 volt motor. I had discussions with my supplier about swapping the motor out for a single phase 220 v one and they suggested not to but rather install a static phase converter. I was quite dubious about this as they said it would lose about 1/3 of the HP but the good side is that all your electrics work the same, forward/rev etc.
I have been using it a lot since I got it (made 5 new gears for my Hercus lathe) and would never know the difference in power supply. I mounted my 3.25" carbide facemill and set .100" depth of cut 1500rpm and let er rip across 1.5" mild steel and it cut like butter so I even cranked up the feed to a good clip! I was amazed at the performance.
The mill is a knockoff of the Bridgeport design which we have at work which only has a 2 HP motor so by the time you lose 1/3 hp from the 3hp mine has you end up with 2hp like the Bridgeport.
I would recommend them to you guys with the caveat that you make sure you are a bit overpowered with HP first. The cost was not that much either around $200 I think.
If anyone is interested I will find a link to the site where the phase converter purchased from.
Phase-a-matic on page 911
http://www.kbctools.com/can/main.cfm



al

blackfrancis
8th May 2009, 01:34 PM
Good stuff Al. So I take it that this unit does not have speed control?

Is you're milling machine bigger than the old series 2 Bridgeport? I've never been able to get one of the classic small Bridgeports to successfully drive a proper carbide facing cutter. Maybe it's just me?

new_guy90
8th May 2009, 07:47 PM
god work to long these nights not much time to do anything owell called up the guys about the "good" hercus and it was gone so i dont think ill find a second hand one which is ok because i went into H&F after work today and saw the lathes there well it was a mix of surprise and disapointment surprise that the hobby sized lathes looked very good but disapointed that that the quality didnt change between the hobby machines to the bigger more expencive trade machines well i suppose thats why companise like Colchester and Harison are so expencive

i still havent seen that 7"x12" lathe but i was really taken by the AL-50G that would do all my needs very well i think but ill wait till i have a look at the EX school hercus

aljunk
9th May 2009, 12:00 AM
BlackFrancis; I know what you mean about the bridgeports and heavy cuts, cuz the one at my workplace (a tradeschool) sure doesn't like a facemill either. This machine is slightlty larger than the BP perhaps 10% but with the 3hp motor I think the variable speed belt drive is a bit more sturdy. This is the machine I bought.....
http://www.bellmachineryltd.com/new_manford_sp150vs.htm
al

blackfrancis
9th May 2009, 03:41 AM
Sure looks nice Al. Funny how that little bit of extra size makes so much difference, but it is undeniable that it does.

aljunk
9th May 2009, 06:39 AM
Despite what we are told growing up........Size does matter! lol :D