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neksmerj
22nd Nov 2008, 02:22 AM
Not exactly a novel title or idea, but let's have some pictures of your old girl, lathe I mean.

Some before and after shots would be great, or just as it is, swarf and all.

This will compliment Wannabe's thread "Things you have you made for your Hercus".

Ken

bitza500
22nd Nov 2008, 02:40 AM
Hi Ken, when you come over you can show me how to upload photos as I have tried and failed miserably DJ might be sending you a PM about your nut to make sure it is ok for me to pick up as the drive will do me good and I might catch me mate in Yarra Junction with luck

all the best derek

DJ’s Timber
22nd Nov 2008, 02:57 AM
Hi Ken, when you come over you can show me how to upload photos as I have tried and failed miserably DJ might be sending you a PM about your nut to make sure it is ok for me to pick up as the drive will do me good and I might catch me mate in Yarra Junction with luck

all the best derek

Posting Pictures to Your Post (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=78760)

Penpal
23rd Nov 2008, 10:16 AM
1967 Model. I was using a collet chuck at the time. This lathe is very convenient for me and is in constant use.
Peter.:2tsup:

bitza500
23rd Nov 2008, 08:38 PM
Hi Penpal, nice to see a lathe that has been used as many of the registered owners are still trying to put theirs back together again

Have you done any modifications or paint or is it as you bought it
As it looks good considering it gets used
all the best Derek bitza500

Penpal
23rd Nov 2008, 09:20 PM
I bought the lathe from the original owner who used the lathe seldom, I have the original test certificate from Hercus. It came with Angle Boring Attachment,Milling Attachment both in the original packing grease, I have bought many other bits and pieces since purchase.It is original in every way useful as well.

Peter:2tsup:

wannabe
23rd Nov 2008, 09:53 PM
I've seen Peter's lathe in real life and it's a beautiful example of a Hercus in pristine original condition.

blackfrancis
28th Nov 2008, 03:31 PM
Here's a pic of my 1952 model A in action. I made the fixed steady and the QC toolpost myself. I got the machine off an old European guy who had completly reconditioned it after spending his life rebuilding machine tools the old fashioned way. He had even fitted a new spindle by handscraping the bearings. You can see the scraping marks on the bed if you look closely.
89846

wannabe
28th Nov 2008, 04:11 PM
Nice one. The steady rest looks like a commercial one not like a home made one. I'd be interested in some more info/pics on how you went about making it. I'm in the process of trying to design one now but it would look like something you would find at the tip compared to what you have done there.

blackfrancis
28th Nov 2008, 04:28 PM
I was doing an evening foundry course at a Tafe many years ago. Really just an excuse to make castings at will. They had the pattern sitting around, so the rest was relatively easy. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Steve

wannabe
28th Nov 2008, 04:37 PM
Bugger. I got all excited there for a while.:) Pity they don't have any courses like that around Canberra.
Oh well. Back to my crappy design.

bitza500
28th Nov 2008, 08:51 PM
hi Steve, As the holder of the register I always ask if you join our little group by registering your lathe all I need is Serial number and that is all as the rest is on the Forum anyway and you would be our 25th owner and the register is only to try and track down more Hercus owners and collect your serial number to see were you sit in with the other 24 owners
It is not a compulsory thing more a Hercus were are they now list as thousands were made but we have 24 and as I said if you do not mind giving me your serial number I have you on my papers less the number so please let me know

Pity about the steady as if you had kept the pattern it would have been a good money maker

all the best derek bitza500

blackfrancis
29th Nov 2008, 06:52 PM
Yer, I would guess they don't have a course like that anywhere now Peter. It seems you can buy a steady from the UK though.

see

http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/BOXFORD_LATHE_USERS_NEW1.html

and

http://www.lathes.co.uk/boxford/page12.html

re. making your own, have a look at
http://homepage3.nifty.com/homeshop-tools/fixed_steady/fixed_steady-e.htm

Also there's some mob in the UK who sell castings for an oversized steady with four fingers. They have a Boxford version as well as the Myford one. I think it was either model engineering services or hemingways, but I'm not sure and they don't have it on their site anymore, you could email them about it though.

Derek, my number is A4231. It would be interesting to find out what year they changed over to the lever tailstock and detent tumbler reverse. Sometime in the mid 50's. Also the year they increased the micrometer dials and changed the cross slide. Sometime in the 60s I think.

Cheers
Steve

footz
29th Nov 2008, 10:20 PM
Well she is almost finished.
I made the little useless brass oil thingy for the tailstock ( I was going to put this in things you have made for the Hercus but I didnt feel like getting kicked). I think I need a life heheh. You have to look carefully to see it though.
The logo that ken (neksmerj) fixed up (thank you very much) I just printed out on photo paper and stuck it on the head stock.I think I will just get some decal paper or air brush the dam sticker. I ordered some brass wipers for the saddle as I thought the steel ones looked crap and I luv shiny bits! . I still need to polish the handles a bit more but I couldn't do it, I have had enough and needed a break so I threw the last couple of bits on . I still need to make a small shelf on the r/h side for my tools. And tomorrow I will measure up a splashback and get it pressed up. Then I will get it painted not sure of colour yet might make it silver. I also have to mount the fixed steady on the wall and repaint it and the thread gauge thingy
Thanx to all who gave me advice on how to do things I really appreciate it. I fitted the original cross slide instead of the one with the mill slots in it. I needed a gib strip as I didnt have one for the cross slide (they are different of course) ,rang Hercus and got a new one, not bad for a 1964 machine LOL. The mill cross slide is a pain in the ass to clean as it gets all the chips in it so it can sit on the shelf till I need it. I also have to make up a coolant pump.

bitza500
29th Nov 2008, 11:11 PM
Hi Gene Congratulations at what must be the most amazing restoration on a Hercus 9" lathe mind you with what you have at your disposal plus your Painting Knowledge and skils you have done a terrific job
although remember
a clean workshop and a clean machine means you need to get a life or you have a very sick mind
My garage never looked that clean when it was new and now just ask Ken he will tell you I have Hercus parts and 4WD parts
I cannot even see a spiderweb get a grip on your self go and get it dirty make something hang your conversion sheets on the wall

But I must say I am keeping the photos as that is one over the top Restoration I reckon you should send a copy to good old Hercus Old Jeff Vickers would be impressed

By the way on the T-Slot Crosslide did it have a full length jib or not or you never got one for that either ??
And if you did can you tell me how long the jib is please

So what is next a Hercus Milling Machine ?????

to a top notch tradesman
all the best Derek bitza500

wannabe
30th Nov 2008, 12:03 AM
Footz that's looking great. It will be a shame to get it dirty. Top job.

I'm sure your little brass thingy looks a hell of a lot better than the one I hacked up one day. I didn't post a pic of it because I wouldn't admit to making it.
What I've done on my lathe is make up nylon plugs that I put in some of the holes to stop them filling up with swarf. The one on top of the taper turning cross slide especially.
One of the most useful little tools I've ever made is a spring loaded tube with a couple of strong small rare earth magnets in it. Pick up the swarf, retract the magnets and the swarf falls off. Makes picking up swarf and getting it out of holes real simple. I use it on both the lathe and the mill and would be lost without it.

neksmerj
30th Nov 2008, 12:04 AM
Gene,

You are an absolute disgrace, how dare you show up fellow Hercus owners. That is one hell of a restoration job, and how long did it take, 2 weeks?

I've been at mine in fits and starts, for more than 12 months, and it's still only half done.

My sincere congratulations, you have achieved a mighty job. When you are finally finished, I'll send you mine for completion, ok?

As a side note, I finally got to meet Derek today, quite a character. Since he mentioned it, my observations of his workshop, are as follows.

A. It's too small.
B. There's no room to move.
C. If a part was dropped on the floor, a metal detector would be required to find it.

Possible solutions.

A. Remove ten 4 wheel drives, all in various stages of disassembly.
B. Remove 300 tonnes of extraneous bits and pieces, a life time's collection.
C. Move the nicely restored lathes into the house, where they belong, and the missus to the shed.

Just kiddin Derek, I hope your missus has a sense of humor.

I might have exaggerated a tad about the number of 4 wheel drives. Couldn't get around to count them all.

Ken

bitza500
30th Nov 2008, 01:43 AM
Yer, I would guess they don't have a course like that anywhere now Peter. It seems you can buy a steady from the UK though.

see

http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/BOXFORD_LATHE_USERS_NEW1.html

and

http://www.lathes.co.uk/boxford/page12.html

re. making your own, have a look at
http://homepage3.nifty.com/homeshop-tools/fixed_steady/fixed_steady-e.htm

Also there's some mob in the UK who sell castings for an oversized steady with four fingers. They have a Boxford version as well as the Myford one. I think it was either model engineering services or hemingways, but I'm not sure and they don't have it on their site anymore, you could email them about it though.

Derek, my number is A4231. It would be interesting to find out what year they changed over to the lever tailstock and detent tumbler reverse. Sometime in the mid 50's. Also the year they increased the micrometer dials and changed the cross slide. Sometime in the 60s I think.

Cheers
Steve

Hi Steve, if the number is 4231 well she is a bit older than that try around 1952 the lever Tailstock has been around a long long time
As for the larger dials yours must have had them upgraded as it was not until the late 60's I believe the larger dials came in as I have been chasing a lower crosslide large dial but to no avail yet as they were not as common and it was the Model A's with the lot got them so I would say a 1952 model would not have had large dials but I thought origanally they were made when they converted to Metric but no that was the size as I remember my trade school with the large dials but one day a lower crosslide dial asy will roll up or I will make one as I have the plans from America as the 9" is big business over there
I wish I knew about the lack of Hercus parts when I got My Workcover payout I would have brought a container load over as they are everywhere the South Bend which is the original that everybody copied and half my lathe is now South Bend

Thanks for your serial number as it is a fairly old one compared to the majority I have mine 1954 a4891 and the Tassie devil I bought and sold to my mate is a 1941 flat belt with a remote motor and rear pulley assy serial number VB316 and the oldest so far

all the best Derek bitza500

pipeclay
30th Nov 2008, 02:47 AM
Gene I notice the position of your Drum switch,I dont think you have had a go at doing any thread cutting as yet but the closer you can have that switch too you the better.

As well as for threading ,it would be much safer to have it mounted at the opperater side of the machine,looks very risky having to lean over to switch it off.

footz
30th Nov 2008, 02:13 PM
Thanx for all the kind words guyz
Well pictures always look better then real life, and I couldnt show you a mess, my battery is flat on camera as I would show other part of shed LOL. My normal home camera wife left at her work and I brought my work one home so no charger sigh.
Now to answer some questions

Bitza I am sik hehehe. Dont worry it will get all dirty I just clean up after. Its the wife 30 years of marriage and she has rubbed off on me(not that way LOL) she is a cleanaholic. At trade school when its home time you have to clean the lathe and the same is in my crash shop. When they guyz finish a job they clean up there bays. So I do the same at home, though whilst doing the polishing and such it made a massive mess and only that part of shed is clean. The mill is still covered in wood shavings from making the stands for the chucks and such.
I have the gib strip for the T-Slot Crosslide and it is the full length of the T-Slot Crosslide. The length of the gib strip is 235mm, you can probably buy a new one from Hercus cost me about 50.00 for the ordinary one.

Wannabe I want to get some of them gitz fillers and put them on the oil holes just to finish it off, and looking at gear you made for youre lathe I cant believe your brass thingy was made poor!.Id like to see a pic of the tool you described for picking up stuff.

Ken well you are the one that got me into doing this LOL. I seen pics of what you had done and it got me going , I then seen pics of a 1947 model a south bend lathe and the rest is history. When I start a job I tend to go flat out until about 90% then I loose interest a big fault of mine sigh. But this forum has helped me immensely. So it was about 3 weeks but lot of man hours went into it LOL.

Pipeclay the switch is just mounted on the wall as a temporary measure, it used to be mounted above the chuck, (Pic enclosed) and I was always worried about leaning over the chuck to switch it off. I must figure out where to put the switch it is a dam big thing. Where abouts is yours?. I have thought of making up a switch on the saddle as the newer machines have , but not sure what to do yet. When I put the splash back up I will then figure out where to put the switch. And no I havent done any thread turning yet but that is very soon.

Thanx again all your words and help are what made me do it. Almost finished anyway next week hopefully.

pipeclay
30th Nov 2008, 07:05 PM
Gene mine is mounted bellow the Q/C nearer to the tail stock end.
My swarf tray covers most of it ,I have the cabinet type base and it mounts to the cabinet,its in easy reach for threading and its protected by the swarf tray.

aljunk
21st Dec 2008, 11:11 AM
Hi all! Hey great to find this forum!
I inherited a 9" a couple years ago from a good friend who passed away suddenly. It was a fixture in his automotive repair shop for years and had been there when he bought the shop which is all the history I have on it. They used it for the odd bushing or spacer but none of them really knew how to use it, they used the half nuts for turning operations...yikes! lol
It's actually in good condition and a little tlc and a new chuck it cuts consistently true. Here's a few pics of it in my new home shop. One of the first things I made for it was a new crossfeed shaft and nut. You can see my first thought was to just make a backlash eliminator, was kinda hokey but actually worked very well.
Lookin forward to getting to know some of u guys and swappin info etc.
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/messages/viewthumb/5965388090-1166127252-17705/gallery/page/1/15/
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/messages/viewthumb/5965376324-1171338209-43711/gallery/page/1/15/

al

neksmerj
21st Dec 2008, 02:41 PM
Hi Al,

Nice job on the cross slide nut. Bugger ya, what I'd do for a nice workshop, I envy all you blokes.

My workshop is a table in the back yard.........one of these days!

Ken

aljunk
22nd Dec 2008, 03:22 AM
Thanks Ken, it was a lot of years in coming! My workshop was also the big outdoors or a small shed for a verrry long time too. Not so bad in the summer but the snow and -40 deg kinda took the fun out of it in the winters! lol It's a real joy to finally have a place where I can have some equipment and just putter away on stuff!

.RC.
22nd Dec 2008, 09:55 AM
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/messages/viewthumb/5965388090-1166127252-17705/gallery/page/1/15/
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/messages/viewthumb/5965376324-1171338209-43711/gallery/page/1/15/

al

Another Canadian Hercus, must have been a few turn up over there...

aljunk
22nd Dec 2008, 10:30 AM
I found another one here in PG and am workin on buying or horse trading for it. Not quite sure why I need 2 of them tho lol! I sure find mine handy for small stuff.

bitza500
22nd Dec 2008, 10:58 PM
Hi Al, welcome to the Hercus Forum,and being Number 28 to our slow but growing list of Fanatical Hercus owners ,going by the Numbers yours is about a 1970 Model please correct me if I am wrong,plus the first long Lathe bed in the Group as most have just the 40" were yours should be 48" denoted by the letter L on the Model Number
As you have stated you are a glutton for punishment going for a Second Hercus I had 2 but sold 1 to my mate as I was going to strip it so that parts were available but my mate twisted my arm and within 3 Months has it all finished and running
Like most of the Owners,we are in for the long haul do restorations and Footz who has everything at his finger tips to make a brilliant job of restoring is a shining example
Mine has been stripped cleaned assembled only to find on the first cut the Thrust bearing was shot .So a Full Restore was Plan B Now on Plan C raised 2" so I have 6 5/8" centre height and more different parts that you could poke a stick at plus 14 Months and still not finished it can run but that is all

Question Do you in Canada have the USPS Flate Rate Parcel service ??
as many a time we Hercus Owners have to look abroad to find parts and during the middle of the year I scooped some bargains as at $17.00 for a 20 LB box to Australia a lot of small hard to obtain parts was a real bargain
My mate who was sending gave up after the second box of 20+ went missing and he no longer wanted to take the responsibility in case of losing another

So can you find out as I would not doubt if you are willing we could fill a 20LB box with ease

Now the Lathe you have a V at the end of the Serial number do you have any info as to the length of time the previous owner had it and do you have any paperwork
as so far we have VB, Model,A, B,C, AR, and ARL and as I am trying to collect as much Information about the Hercus so it just does not Disappear like a lot of the small lathes did
So Welcome to the register ask away as the Brains trust within this group is amazing if it is Hercus or can be fitted or fixed these are the Guys you need to ask as many have had their lathe for years

So Welcome aboard
all the best derek bitza500

speedy
22nd Dec 2008, 11:07 PM
Hi everyone here is a pic of my hercus 9.
It was bought new by my father in the early- mid 60's, he was an auto electrician and starting his own business. In 1974 the shop burnt down and the lathe suffered a lot of damage. It was had a quick repair and was put back to work. About a year later a new 10inch hercus was purchased and this one became a standby spare. I worked with my father for a number of years until his death in the early 80's, I managed the business for my mother for a number of years until we decided to sell the business. I kept a number of macines from the shop and one of them is the 9" hercus you see here, about three years ago I completely striped it down cleaned serviced and painted it. It still works well and true, although I don't have the time to use it a lot, but its handy to have in the shed when i'm making or repairing something. I'll never sell it...

Things made for it ---

Boring bar holder; tools post; milling rig; and a few small tools and holders.

I still have the original oiler for the tail stock.

Model AL
Machine Number 9810

ps. The photo isn't too good, I'll try to remember to take some more and upload.

bitza500
22nd Dec 2008, 11:48 PM
Hi Speedy, welcome to our expanding You are Number 29 (you are the second person today to register )
The Lathe dates around 1965 ? please correct me if wrong
I notice you have everything bar the Kitchen sink in your tool cupboard
Did you rebuild the lathe yourself and is that Hammertone Blue????
As for the Picture it looks like a lathe in Good condition
Does it get much of a workout or is it just a Hobby lathe ??
As I have said before remember there are 28 other Hercus Owners who will share their Experience if you get stuck with any problems
So welcome and let's here what is in that Cupboard ??

all the best Derekbitza500

speedy
24th Dec 2008, 11:42 PM
Hi Speedy, welcome to our expanding You are Number 29 (you are the second person today to register )
The Lathe dates around 1965 ? please correct me if wrong
I notice you have everything bar the Kitchen sink in your tool cupboard
Did you rebuild the lathe yourself and is that Hammertone Blue????
As for the Picture it looks like a lathe in Good condition
Does it get much of a workout or is it just a Hobby lathe ??
As I have said before remember there are 28 other Hercus Owners who will share their Experience if you get stuck with any problems
So welcome and let's here what is in that Cupboard ??

all the best Derekbitza500


Hi Derekbitz500,

Yes, 1965 would be about right.
I rebuilt the lathe myself and yes its hammertone blue.
For the first 10 to 15 years, the lathe worked in my parents auto electrical workshop and would have done hundreds of hours for work, mainly light work. Then for about 20 years it was stored away in a shed at my mothers house. Around 2001 I bought a house and built a shed, now I had some where to set it up so I restored/ serviced it. As I'm no longer in the auto electrical trade the lathe is only used for hobby purposes.
The cupboard, well, I can't remmember everything but here a a few things-
2x 3 jaw chucks
1x 4 jaw independent chuck
Steady
10 to 15 diferent tailstock centres including a 3 jaw live centre, 3 or 4 other live centres
T slot cross slide
Morticing attachment
Boring bar attachment
multiple tool holder (rotating)
Knerling tool
another set of gears
and some boxes of tool steel
misc other odds and sods

aljunk
26th Dec 2008, 08:03 AM
Does everyone have this oval with RGE in it after their SN?

Penpal
26th Dec 2008, 09:37 AM
My Lathe 1967 model A has the oval frame around the letters RGE and on the other rail opposite is stamped BS.

Cheers from here Peter,:2tsup:

wannabe
26th Dec 2008, 10:53 AM
Have a look at post #32 on this thread should explain it. R.G Excell was the guy who inspected them.

aljunk
27th Dec 2008, 03:58 AM
Mine has the BS on the other rail too, wonder what the significance of this is?
Thanks for cluing me in Wannabe, I kinda figured it had to do with inspection or some kind of certification.

YarrD
15th Jan 2009, 11:18 AM
hi Steve, As the holder of the register I always ask if you join our little group by registering your lathe all I need is Serial number and that is all as the rest is on the Forum anyway and you would be our 25th owner and the register is only to try and track down more Hercus owners and collect your serial number to see were you sit in with the other 24 owners
It is not a compulsory thing more a Hercus were are they now list as thousands were made but we have 24 and as I said if you do not mind giving me your serial number I have you on my papers less the number so please let me know

Pity about the steady as if you had kept the pattern it would have been a good money maker

all the best derek bitza500
Hi, I have just registered and hope to take delivery of Hercus ARM in next day or so -serial number ARM15015F (I think it is an F at the end looking at picture on Ebay). I am missing faceplate and steady if anyone has one for sale.

David

bitza500
15th Jan 2009, 01:40 PM
Hi, I have just registered and hope to take delivery of Hercus ARM in next day or so -serial number ARM15015F (I think it is an F at the end looking at picture on Ebay). I am missing faceplate and steady if anyone has one for sale.

David
Hi David, welcome to the Hercus Forum and that Serial Number makes it nearly one of the last 9" lathes made

When you get the lathe please let me know the proper serial number as It is a very unusal set of letters on a Hercus The AR is ok the M ?? and the F at the end has me very intruiged

So welcome to our 38th member of the Hercus Sub Forum

all the best Derek

blackfrancis
15th Jan 2009, 01:43 PM
M is used for metric machine lathes. F i have no idea

brittleheart
15th Jan 2009, 06:33 PM
My number (between the v's) is BS30. As it is and old model, can I assume it was made in 1939? And as they started at no 20, would this be the 10th made?
Not that it really matters, but if is, should I keep the lathe original as an early example?
Personally I would like to paint it a lighter colour and change the gearbox to make it more user friendly.
Any opinions?
Regards, Peter

bitza500
15th Jan 2009, 11:58 PM
My number (between the v's) is BS30. As it is and old model, can I assume it was made in 1939? And as they started at no 20, would this be the 10th made?
Not that it really matters, but if is, should I keep the lathe original as an early example?
Personally I would like to paint it a lighter colour and change the gearbox to make it more user friendly.
Any opinions?
Regards, Peter

Hi peter, this is a good quwstion as my old Lathe has the Serial Number VB316 dating it 1941 but this is going by the list Drummond supplied But every one keeps asking are these numbers for all the Hercus lathes ?? and why VB or BS or VBA or the V at the end of the Serial number and our newest Hercus owner YarrD he has ARM and F at the end of the Serial number

I would love to see a picture of it as to compare the SouthBend which started building the 9" in 1936 and Hercus in 1939

I was going to strip my VB316 but my Mate bought as he said it was a part of History that should not get stripped so he rebuilt it and I am still waiting to be paid TOO

I have tried to make Contact with HERCUS about the Serial number and letters but have never got a reply and DUNNO was one reply I got by phoning them so can anybody shed anymore light on the serial numbers and letters as peter YES your's maybe be one of the first Marketed HERCUS 9" lathe
As for keep it Original well look at it this way are you going to use it ?? get it dirty,scratch the paint have a few slight OOPS I agree the Hercus green is not a particular nice colour VB316 is painted with epoxy enamel Brunswick green and has small dots and lines of yellow to break up the green

If you want a show piece never to be used again paint it original or like me I started with the Dark Blue and ended up with Black and Blue as I got sick of rubbing the dark blue paint off

The main reason Hercus went to Good old Kermit Green was as told to me as a Apprentice Green is more a neutral colour on a machine and does not make your eyes strained looking at some drab dark grey or Blue and this was from a sales rep in 1975 when the Company bought 2 new Lathes the first new Machines since 1948

Just remember the more you pull apart the more you will have to clean and strip off the Concrete Paint and then use Body filler to fill in all the imperfections
Me I just stripped it it and painted it as It is a Machine to be used big deal if it is white, red, yeelow or Blue
It is your Lathe you have to look at it so go choose a colour you like Ok it knocks the Originality but so will the Model A gearbox

all the best Derek

brittleheart
16th Jan 2009, 12:45 AM
Derek,
I think you have a point regarding authenticity and colour. So it took 28 years for them to realise that the dull colour that they had used causes eye strain?
More likely the surround lighting for the apprentices was inadequate.
Personally, I prefer a light grey, or a shade that gives a background contrast, and reflects a little light.
As a working machine, I plan to aim for accuracy and efficiency. Why change the gears on the drive train to alter feed, when fitting a gearbox makes it quicker?
Probably best to make changes that encourage an enjoyable working experience, not a dull chore.
Regards, Peter

aljunk
13th Mar 2009, 02:30 PM
Hi guys, it's`been a while since I posted progress on my hercus rebuild. It's taken a while to get this far but there's still lots more to do. I put on the first coat of paint today!!! I had the original color matched just cuz I'm a fan of restoring to original as much possible.
Here's a link to some pics. http://photoshare.shaw.ca/messages/viewimage/4486267974-1236913021-38544/parm/12663027/page/1/15 (http://photoshare.shaw.ca/messages/viewimage/4486267974-1236913021-38544/parm/12663027/page/1/15)
I also cut a new 56 tooth gear. I tried it on my other machine and it runs nice and quiet!!! whew! I'm looking forward to starting to put the pieces back together soon, I have too many projects on the go right now. There's a few more gears that I have to make or repair etc.

neksmerj
17th Mar 2009, 10:22 PM
aljunk,

Interesting snap of gear cutting, how about a separate thread detailing how you went about it.

I see you have some sort of indexing plate at the back of the chuck, home made?

What sort of cutter did you use, correlation between no of teeth and PCD, gear blank material, etc, etc, all the usual questions.

Reckon we could all benefit from your expertice.

Ken

aljunk
17th Mar 2009, 11:03 PM
I will do something on th e gear cutting shortly Ken, a few people have expressed interest in the details. I still have to do some figuring on the PA as I used 20 deg but it seems like maybe they are 14.5..........
update soon
al

neksmerj
17th Mar 2009, 11:29 PM
aljunk,

I reckon 20 degrees for the pressure angle is correct for Hercus change gears, I believe 14.5 degrees was the angle used by Southbend. From what I have read, Hercus changed to 20 degrees for a stronger tooth profile, someone with more knowledge may back me up on that.

Ken

bitza500
18th Mar 2009, 02:50 AM
Hi All, well as We Al my Mate the Toolmaker and myself started on the 17th Mach the process of manufacturing ring gears for Bull gears Back Gears and the Mainshaft Pulley gear plus fitting so shortly we will have a little production line of rebuilt Headstock gears for sale on a Change over basis

We did our first back gear yesterday and surprisingly enough it is not 20DP nor 20PA

As we I have spent weeks checking out the DP/PA YES Hercus on paper used 20DPand 20PA but as no paperwork work is available to back this up as everything was destroyed when the 9" lathe was last produced

So we only have it by word of mouth and what has been written as to the DP/PA for the Hercus Gears in the Headstock

The trial one yesterday a backgear was not 20 DP nor 20 PA but as I have gathered a few old gears along the way (and I need any more broken Headstock gears to get a stock up)

We have gear cutters coming from England ,America and were able to buy a cutter locally only to find that out of all 19 broken gears I have none seem to have the right DP/PA?????

If anybody can shed some light on the subject please email me as I today will do some more using the ring gears that I bought

So I will have 5 rebuilt back gears for sale by the end of Wednesday the 18 March

As we are still waiting for the cutters for the Bullgear and the Mainshaft pulley I have compared the premade ring gears the original Back gear and a South Bend and a Sheraton

And as far as we have attained the DP/PA is all the same for all 3 Machines (PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG INA DRAWING)

I have for weeks been checking this out to make sure that the gears we are going to make are the correct DP?PA ? but there is nothing (OFFICIAL) on any paperwork I have read to say that YES Hercus produced 20DP 20PA Headstock Gears

I have read probably like all of you that good old Fred Hercus made the Headstock Gears 20DP 20PA as he believed the South Bend gears wer to weak and made the Hercus 20DPand 20PA

All this is written on page after page about the Hercus (BUT NOT OFFICIALY PROVED TO ME ) as there are no Official Documents
(PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG WITH A DRAWING )
That can be prove that Hercus Did use 20DP and 20 PA

So as Al and I are now making gears using a different DP/PA as the gear cutter we have fits the original Hercus Back Gears and yes I have 9 back gears that have all been checked and not 1 of the 9 back gears I have is 20DP/20PA

Dilema,Dilema, as do we keep making these gears the same as all the broken 9 Backgears I have in the DP/PA configuration ???????????

I would really like some input on this as when I emailed Steve Durden at Hercus he advised that all material, patterns, drawings, the lot was destroyed at the end of Production of the 9" lathe

So there you have it I have not found anything OFFICAL to prove that Hercus used 20DP?20PA ? as the size of the gears used in the Headstock ONLY

So if anybody can prove me wrong with Drawings stating the DP/PA on the Hercus is 20/20 please do ASAP as By the end of next week we will have all rebuilt Headstock gears machined fitted and checked ready to sell on a CHANGEOVER BASIS and we will want your old gear first before we send out the rebuilt /remanufactured you are wanting as we only have a small amount of stock

So once again please prove me wrong as I am not the only person who has gone down this path in the last few weeks and due to NO OFFICAL HERCUS DRAWINGS showing we are going by the size of the 9 gears I have waiting to be rebuilt

Any replies please send to me at
[email protected]

all the best Derek
The Metric Hercus ARM will be stripped and waiting for any body who may need parts after this coming weekend

aljunk
18th Mar 2009, 10:45 AM
Well I have cut a couple 56 tooth gears to 20 PA and they actually run nice and quiet on my machine. But they do have a different profile so I'm thinkin they are 14.5 deg.PA. I bought my cutters from Ash Gear in the eastern USA and they have a great selection and reasonable prices, $55usd for each cutter I bought. (Ashgear.com) Woulda been a better deal tho if I'd got the right PA gear cutters tho!
I would like to see some pics of the rings you guys made Derek. I bought a Southbend bull gear off Ebay and it has the same tooth profile as the original Hercus part so I bet they are the same PA 14.5.

al

blackfrancis
18th Mar 2009, 02:48 PM
Hi Al

Here's the details of what I know on the issue.

I attended a talk given by one of Fred Hercus' sons years back. He stated that his dad had quite a background in the gearcutting business before building the 9". I believe gear cutting is still a major part of the Hercus buisness. He stated that his Dad purposely made every gear in the Hercus lathe have a pressure angle of 20degs because he believed that they were superior to 14.5degs.

Now that is not to say that it is impossible that your lathe has 14.5degs on the Bull wheel or elsewhere, or that this information is infalable.

I have read on a forum somewhere that southbend moved over to 20degs at some point in time. So another possibility is that the SB bull gear you have is actually 20degs.

I have a few change gears from a WW2 vintage southbend and they definately don't run as well as they should with the hercus gears.

bitza500
18th Mar 2009, 11:13 PM
Hi All well we have or should I say I have gone through every gear in my garage with the 16DP 14.5PA cutter and then took to my Toolmaker Al's this Morning and he did the same slow with Magnifying glass checked the gears on (SUPPOSEDLY ) original Hercus Back gears and all the gears matched the 16DP and 14.5PA

The most mystifying thing I found was a lack of supply of 20DP cutters in Australia as there is 8 in the set you would reckon that somebody would have NO WAY

I contacted a old Machinery salesman and talked in length and he tried to see if any of his friends had anything we could Borrow
(STILL NO REPLY ) I am getting a gear cutter from the States off eBay whether it good or bad we have to work out all the possible cutters we can find, I have read a million times Fred Hercus was not impressed in the 14.5 PA and improved and strengthed it to 20PA which up untill 3 weeks ago I was a confirmed 20DP20PA believer but after buying the ring gear from Mick Moyles they are not 20DP or 20PA but yet the cutter we have is exactly the right shape and pitch as the ring gears
so next week is set up the dividing head and start cutting and go with what we have now which is not 20/20
all the best Derek

aljunk
19th Mar 2009, 12:08 AM
To figure out the DP (diametral pitch) you take the number of teeth =N add 2 divide by gear OD. For example 56+2=58/3.22=18DP
Is this how you came up with 20dp for your gears derek? any pics of the back gear repairs yet, i'd like to see pics of the various stages. How much interference fit do u figure to sure for the gear rings and do u plan to heat them for installation? We used to do that with ring gears on flywheels for the starter in automotive just heated them with the oxy/acet and dropped it on to cool in place. ( my 2 trades tickets are automotive Machinist and also automotive Technician)
Well I guess I will be buying new cutters @ 14.5 deg........
al

bitza500
19th Mar 2009, 12:35 AM
To figure out the DP (diametral pitch) you take the number of teeth =N add 2 divide by gear OD. For example 56+2=58/3.22=18DP
Is this how you came up with 20dp for your gears derek? any pics of the back gear repairs yet, i'd like to see pics of the various stages. How much interference fit do u figure to sure for the gear rings and do u plan to heat them for installation? We used to do that with ring gears on flywheels for the starter in automotive just heated them with the oxy/acet and dropped it on to cool in place. ( my 2 trades tickets are automotive Machinist and also automotive Technician)
Well I guess I will be buying new cutters @ 14.5 deg........
al

Hi Al, the turned down back gear had a .05" interference fit we heated the ring on a barbeque gas ring and then just dropped it straight on the backgear

BUT we mad a jig up so aligning the gear onto the backgear assy was set flush so the gear could not go any further than the length we set the jig up to and this is only for the large gear
We have yet to do the small gear as we are waiting for the cutter same as the bullgear waiting for cutters
will take pics as soon as we get going properly as we just wanted to see if the gear distorted or buckled but put in lathe and runs true

all the best Derek

blackfrancis
19th Mar 2009, 11:35 AM
One way you could get to the bottom of this would be to have a close look at the rack. If it's 20deg PA the angle of the teath to the vertical will be 20degs. If it's 14.5PA it will be 14.5.

You'd probably need to pull the rack off to do this. Derek do you have a rack sitting around that you can measure?

Regarding cutters, one possibility is to make them yourself.

tanii51
19th Mar 2009, 08:15 PM
a pic of my old girl 1955 vintage s/n C5097 front bearing has about 3thou play the ways seem good except the bumps near head stock

jomac6
19th Mar 2009, 10:39 PM
Mine has the BS on the other rail too, wonder what the significance of this is?
Thanks for cluing me in Wannabe, I kinda figured it had to do with inspection or some kind of certification.

Hi. I think the "B" stands for basic and the "S" stands for shortbed model.
JohnH

jomac6
19th Mar 2009, 11:02 PM
Hi. If some one can measure the thickness of the top of the gear (not the width) compare this with a Southbend or a new chinese metic lathe, I think a 20 degree is smaller than a 14 degree, or it could be the other way round.
This sounds a bit muddled, but I read it in Model Engineer, or something, so a rack or gear with similar DP and tooth number could point you in right direction.
John H

aljunk
20th Mar 2009, 12:01 AM
I have both a long and a short bed machine and both have the BS on them. The model/serial numbers are different in that the longbed one is an ARL where the other is an AR.
As for the gear angle, I convinced they are 14.5 not 20 as the ones I cut this week were 20deg and looks very different than the originals.

blackfrancis
20th Mar 2009, 01:45 PM
In that case I apologize for giving you bad information Al

aljunk
21st Mar 2009, 11:18 AM
No problemo Blackfrancis, it seemed to be the general consensus on here.

al

aljunk
24th Mar 2009, 12:03 PM
Well I have most of the pieces painted and reassembled!!! Just hunting for a few adds n ends now, like some felt material to put in the gearbox oil slots etc.
It's a lot more work that one might think to strip one of these babies and do a full restore, new headstock bearings etc.

al

Penpal
24th Mar 2009, 12:52 PM
Have fun with your lathe but I fail to see why the control switch is mounted there looks suicidal to me quick way to slash a wrist or worse, off to the side or in front is much safer. With yours you have several chances a session of potential harm.Mine is mounted outside the lathe on the left. Tell me how you find the switch using steel or other materials larger than the chuck.

Cheers mate.

Regards Peter.:2tsup:

bitza500
24th Mar 2009, 04:32 PM
Hi Peter, my 1954 factory switch was on the opposite side of the chuck so you had to lean over the chuck to turn it off
at least I see John has a knee KILL switch
A lot of the early 40's and 50's lathes they put the switch in what we now call dangerous spots back in those days no loose clothing tight fitting overalls to the wrist plus as they were originally a PRECISION lathe no mass of flaming swarf would be ever allowed to build up plus the machining was small parts
John's switch is mounted on the same bracket probably as mine was but flattened out to mount that monster switch and as John has plans like we all do his picture is of the lathe when he bought it
I have seen lathes that do not have anyswitch bar lean over and turn off at the powerpoint
My switch sat in the same spot when I rebuilt the first time but never wired it up I eventually got a SouthBend Switch mount ground the back flat and is now mounted on the Headstock were the Hercus sticker use to be

And as I know abit by emailing John who is chasing parts, for the price and were he bought it would astound a few owners and one day it will get there mine is 17 months and still modifying

all the best Derek

tanii51
24th Mar 2009, 08:32 PM
fear not guys the switch at the back is actually a reversing switch which isnt connected atm the on /off switch is the little red and yellow one at the bottom left under the chip tray
its a kill switch off a triton 2000 work centre

Ray39
15th Apr 2009, 05:36 PM
Hi All
As I am very new to this I will just start in the hopes my message will arrive in the correct spot.
As I look around some of the pictures of all the Hercus lathes, I never realised there was such a following, but most of you guys have put me to shame already.

Almost twenty years ago now I managed to acquire two Hercus Craftsman model lathes mostly I think they were cheap and came from the Firm where I worked. As they were dismantled for transport they have been stored in various boxes, with the cabinets clogging up my workshop. The whole idea was my sons may like to be involved in the refurbishment etc. the prize being to have one each to play with. Well the idea did not work as one son has no interest and the other son will take the rest of the shop one day so has no need.

I have now finally started the rebuild process very slowly as you can imagine. To this point I have only managed the time to strip the head of one unit and cleen and paint the bed,saddle and topslide etc. now I have parts everywhere.

I will try and keep this history going and maybe a few pictures if im game. So if anyone has any questions or suggestions please feel free.

Ray

bitza500
15th Apr 2009, 07:18 PM
Hi Ray, yes you have found the right spot and as we are 2 suburbs away from each other you must call in and have a look at the completed old Girls plus my unofficial spare parts collection
Would you care to register your lathes nothing sinister I just started the register to try and get more info and have someone to call on if I get stuck
All I need is the serial number and the model and I assume they are both GREEN???

Just make sure you have plenty of plastic bags to put your parts in and mark them well and take pictures as you pull apart saves a lot of hassle later on believe me I know as mine was bought Oct 07 and still not complete it runs and can be used but
the BUT is I do not have the time as I am always busy, makes me wonder how I managed when I was working before my accident

As I live in Dorset Rd Croydon we cannot be to far away from each other and you are more than welcome to drop in and have a look and say hello (SORRY KEN)

Do you have any paperwork on the lathes as when I started the register the main thing I was after was HISTORYas for some strange reason HERCUS never kept their paperwork and very little is written about the old Girls plus all the other Hercus machines made since 1939

I would also like to see a different model Hercus as the more info and pictures the more of a chance of getting the facts or fiction sorted out

So if you want to call in ring me on 0415291212 or email me at
[email protected] as most of the Victorian Hercus owners have called in for parts and I am not afraid of giving my number or email out as most of the owners would have it anyway

So give us a call and lets dicuss the old girls

all the best Derek bitza500

BEE55T
28th May 2009, 08:53 PM
Hi All,

I've put some info into the register and I thought I'd add a picture.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a22/lisa76/Shed/Hercus.jpg

Pete F
9th Jun 2009, 02:10 AM
Well she is almost finished.

Gene I was wondering what colour and type of paint you used for your machine. I'm assuming it's not the original colour, but I've always likes that grey on machines.

Pete

bitza500
9th Jun 2009, 05:48 AM
Hi Pete, what a beautiful old original girl you have but the thread guage has me more intruiged did you make it yourself ?? or di it come that way as this is the second homemade thrad dial I have seen and am well very interestedas I would not mind making one if you have any plans/drawings
Can you let me know and can you give me a PM so I can look first hand

all the best from Croydon Derek bitza500

Adelaide
9th Aug 2009, 06:20 PM
Hercus C1643

jackafrica
19th Sep 2009, 06:50 PM
Ex Hobart Technical College, purchased new in 1982.
Now in my hands, bought at auction.

Very dirty, as usual I suppose with ex school stuff. Now clean and tidy awaiting conversion to 240v single phase.

jomac6
19th Sep 2009, 07:38 PM
Hi Iv'e got the basic model of the Hercus 260, ie CTM without gear box and powerfeed. had to make a few things for it, but its a fantastic lathe, can rip off 2mm in one cut useing indexable tools and tips, its also very accurate.
To make sure I was doing the right thing I got the Texbook of turning for the 260, I also got the 2 (two) parts manuals,
you do need both if you want to do any repairs or maintenance, the only thing is they expensive and the parts manuals are only a few pages long, the diagrams are only photo copies never the less they are indispensible, for me anyway.
It seems that there are not many 260's represented in this site even though its a very good site.
Good luck, and tell us what you intend to turn up.
John Holloway:2tsup:

jackafrica
20th Sep 2009, 12:41 PM
Hi John,
Thanks for the information. Have you compared the " Textbook of Turning " featuring the 260 with what is contained in the earlier version which is available online ( links on this site, or I'll send to you ) for free ? I'm curious.

You mentioned two parts manuals, I was aware there is a third edition from 1980 and a fourth edition from 1990, but unaware there are two different parts manuals. Do they have different titles ?

I look forward to your reply, I'm only a learner here too. Look forward to your reply.

Cheers
Richard

Finnowa
20th Sep 2009, 10:27 PM
I have the three books available from Hercus refering to the 260;
Text Book of Turning (4th edition 1990)
Parts Manual
Maintenance Manual (photocopy from original) showing numbered parts in section drawings.
The US Army manual on South Bend has very good exploded view diagrams and is available online.
Finno

jackafrica
21st Sep 2009, 02:19 AM
Finno, a couple of questions please.

Does the parts manual you mention have an edition reference or publishing date ?

Other than the sectioned drawings, are there instructions for setting up a 260, such as freeplay of slide hand wheels, endfloat specifications of top and cross slides, alignment, etc ?

I have the " Textbook of Turning " featuring the earlier model and also the Army SB on line manuals.

Thanks, I look forward to your reply.

cheers
Richard

Finnowa
21st Sep 2009, 03:49 PM
Does the parts manual you mention have an edition reference or publishing date ?
" Spare Parts Manual
Hercus 260 Lathe".....4th ED 1991

Other than the sectioned drawings, are there instructions for setting up a 260, such as freeplay of slide hand wheels, endfloat specifications of top and cross slides, alignment, etc ?
Most maintenance and removal/replacement procedures are in both the Text Book of Turning (later ed covering 260) and the Maintenance Manual.


Cheers, Finno

jackafrica
21st Sep 2009, 05:51 PM
I spoke with Steve Durden at Hercus this morning on the subject.
There's nothing in any manual available which has the information/specifications I seek.

Certainly the Textbook of Turning does not cover this area and Steve advised he had no information, details or data of what I'm looking for.

Thankfully though, I was able to purchase the correct thread chasing dial indicator, which for the 260 ATM should have three series of numbers defining the graduations, rather than four lines at 90 ° to each other.

Finnowa
21st Sep 2009, 06:54 PM
There is a copy of the inspection sheet from a 9in (1947) on the lathes.co.uk site which maybe close to what your after.
I have the specifications listed from the original advertising, but Steve would know that.
Is the former what your after?

jackafrica
22nd Sep 2009, 12:20 AM
There is a copy of the inspection sheet from a 9in (1947) on the lathes.co.uk site which maybe close to what your after.
I have the specifications listed from the original advertising, but Steve would know that.
Is the former what your after?

Hi Finno, I had seen that sheet, though the information I required has more to do with backlash and end float or end play tolerances in the compound and cross slides, from best to acceptable.

From speaking with Steve Durden he advised what he felt was acceptable with a reconditioned unit, but could not advise on any specification to that end in particular.

As I am not a machinist, perhaps my expectation of this information to be recorded, is unrealistic.

cheers
Richard

Finnowa
22nd Sep 2009, 12:36 AM
Richard,
Your best reference is page 13, Text Book of Turning.
Finno

jackafrica
22nd Sep 2009, 01:18 AM
Richard,
Your best reference is page 13, Text Book of Turning.
Finno

Downloaded 1970 copy is cutting tools and their uses.

Nothing to do with what I'm seeking.

pipeclay
22nd Sep 2009, 07:22 AM
Probably your best advise is what Steve Durden advised.
Backlash should be minimal,you need some but not a lot,desirable would be I think .002/.005".
Depending on your experience you can live with a fair bit of backlash as long as you remember to take it out before starting your cut.
In regards to End Float of your Cross and Compound Slides prefferably none.
You have a Gib Key on both of these slides as well as adjusting screws,the slides should move freely but not be loose.
You can set them by feel or if you like use a Feeler gauage to set them,you will only be able to set the outer ends with the Feeler gauage then adjust the centre ones by touch.
Would suggest to initially set with a .001/.0015" Feeler and see how that goes and work down or up from there.
If you have excessive End float you may have a problem with wear in your Compound or Cross slide,or even the Gibs maybe worn.

.RC.
22nd Sep 2009, 07:44 AM
Here are the JIS specs

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/OzRinger/MSlatheinspection1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/OzRinger/MSlatheinspection2.jpg

jackafrica
22nd Sep 2009, 10:55 AM
Probably your best advise is what Steve Durden advised.
Backlash should be minimal,you need some but not a lot,desirable would be I think .002/.005".
Depending on your experience you can live with a fair bit of backlash as long as you remember to take it out before starting your cut.
In regards to End Float of your Cross and Compound Slides preferably none.
You have a Gib Key on both of these slides as well as adjusting screws,the slides should move freely but not be loose.
You can set them by feel or if you like use a Feeler gauage to set them,you will only be able to set the outer ends with the Feeler gauage then adjust the centre ones by touch.
Would suggest to initially set with a .001/.0015" Feeler and see how that goes and work down or up from there.
If you have excessive End float you may have a problem with wear in your Compound or Cross slide,or even the Gibs maybe worn.

Thanks pipeclay,
Perhaps i have not described correctly what I am referring to as endfloat.
When pushing either slide, backwards and forwards in its longitudinal plane, there is a distance of 0.120mm endplay. This relates to .12mm of freeplay on the rotating dial before the slide moves.
If this measurement is excessive, how may it be adjusted out ? Steve Durden said that new Acme nuts would be unlikely to improve.

The condition you have described is what I would refer to as side play, not endfloat. There is no detectable sideplay at either end, the slides move beautifully smoothly in their ways.
What I am trying to describe is ( I think ) what you are refering to as backlash. If this is the case, then how may I reduce that backlash ?
I have checked the " endfloat " at each end of the slides travel as well as points inbetween, where one could expect wear on the spindle thread through use. The " endfloat " is the same, suggesting little wear on the spindle thread, or the nut.

Being new to this, I could have this nomenclature thing all wrong. Please correct me where necessary. Thanks for the asisstance and patience.

cheers
Richard

pipeclay
22nd Sep 2009, 12:16 PM
The measurements that you indicate are not excessive in my opinion and the machine should be quite serviceable.
There will be a reasonable amount of backlash or end float from new.
I cant tell you what that should be,if you can find on the net the classes of fit for ACME threads this will give you a better refference point,you can also find the specs in the Machinerys Handbook.
If you feel the movement is excessive you could try and source new nuts as there are the typical wear areas,as they are bronze.
There is a temporary fix you can do if the wear in the nuts is excessive,it repqires you to remove the nuts ,split them HALF WAY through the thread,drill and tap for small screw, to pull the nut together reducing the amount of clearance on the screw.

Finnowa
22nd Sep 2009, 01:50 PM
Removing end-play from Feed Screws..
is the title of page 13 of Ed 4 Text Book of Turning
"Wear on the thrust faces of the cross feed and compound rest screws will produce end play which makes up one of the three components of backlash in the slide movement. The first two components, wear in the nut and wear in the screw can only be corrected by replacement of nut or screw."
It goes on to detail use of a shim to reduce the remaining backlash to 0.03mm
Are we getting close?
Finno

12teethperinch
22nd Sep 2009, 03:04 PM
Hey finno I think your book is newer than the pdf book most of us have ,I dont suppose you feel like scanning you book for us? Not sure if it would be a copyright issue after all this time.
Darrell

jackafrica
22nd Sep 2009, 04:17 PM
Removing end-play from Feed Screws..
is the title of page 13 of Ed 4 Text Book of Turning
"Wear on the thrust faces of the cross feed and compound rest screws will produce end play which makes up one of the three components of backlash in the slide movement. The first two components, wear in the nut and wear in the screw can only be corrected by replacement of nut or screw."
It goes on to detail use of a shim to reduce the remaining backlash to 0.03mm
Are we getting close?
Finno

Now we're cooking with gas finno.
Can't seem to locate this info on the PDF version.

I have checked the backlash at both ends of travel, as well as five points between the extent of travel, the backlash measurement does not vary, on both slides.
I've looked at the condition and they don't look worn. Heck the machine has hardly been used even though it spent 27 years in two institutions. Well, really only one owner, the buildings and name changed.
0.03 is what I'd like to aim for.

Is it possible to email me a copy of that page of information ?

Thanks

cheers
Richard

jackafrica
22nd Sep 2009, 04:27 PM
The measurements that you indicate are not excessive in my opinion and the machine should be quite serviceable.
There will be a reasonable amount of backlash or end float from new.
I cant tell you what that should be,if you can find on the net the classes of fit for ACME threads this will give you a better refference point,you can also find the specs in the Machinerys Handbook.
If you feel the movement is excessive you could try and source new nuts as there are the typical wear areas,as they are bronze.
There is a temporary fix you can do if the wear in the nuts is excessive,it repqires you to remove the nuts ,split them HALF WAY through the thread,drill and tap for small screw, to pull the nut together reducing the amount of clearance on the screw.


Thanks, there's more info from finnowa now, stating the backlash as being 0.03mm.
I'm four times that.
Another bloke suggested to me the same method of splitting the nut.
Steve Durdon suggested the new Acme nut would be unlikely to improve my current lathe. Perhaps, given the specification by finnowa, there is room for improvement after all.
It's tough sometimes as an anorak.
Thanks for the assistance. Maybe there is a market for the nuts rather than the change gears, or indeed complemented by same.

cheers
Richard

blackfrancis
22nd Sep 2009, 04:39 PM
The 260 has the exact same crosslide screw arrangement as the later 9" models with the bigger dials. If you really want to get all the end play out of these you should consider modifying it by putting thrust bearings in as Southbend did in their later models.

Check this excellent thread on converting a Southbend to larger dials with proper thrust bearings.

"http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=150571"

IMHO, without thrust bearing, attempting to reduce the backlash below 0.1mm is a waste of time. It's probably a waste of time anyway. They would have had that amount of backlash when brand new. There's documentation on the web saying Southbend had roughly that amount of backlash between the feed screw and nut from new.

BTW, if you're going to mess about with this it could be worth making a special screw driver for the nut which holds the ball handle on. If you can't do that nut up properly you can't get rid of any play.

Finnowa
22nd Sep 2009, 04:41 PM
Hey finno I think your book is newer than the pdf book most of us have ,I dont suppose you feel like scanning you book for us? Not sure if it would be a copyright issue after all this time.
Darrell

Hey Darrell,
Yes it is, 1990 4th editon and good for the 260 lathe.
I would not post a copy because Hercus still sell the book and they are very good in answering questions. I would hate to jeopardise that (or breach copyright!)
Finno

jackafrica
22nd Sep 2009, 05:01 PM
The 260 has the exact same crosslide screw arrangement as the later 9" models with the bigger dials. If you really want to get all the end play out of these you should consider modifying it by putting thrust bearings in as Southbend did in their later models.

Check this excellent thread on converting a Southbend to larger dials with proper thrust bearings.

"http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=150571"

IMHO, without thrust bearing, attempting to reduce the backlash below 0.1mm is a waste of time. It's probably a waste of time anyway. They would have had that amount of backlash when brand new. There's documentation on the web saying Southbend had roughly that amount of backlash between the feed screw and nut from new.

BTW, if you're going to mess about with this it could be worth making a special screw driver for the nut which holds the ball handle on. If you can't do that nut up properly you can't get rid of any play.

Thanks for that information and link.
I have already modified a screwdriver for that purpose precisely. Uselss now for anything else !
cheers
Richard

jackafrica
22nd Sep 2009, 05:06 PM
Hey Darrell,
Yes it is, 1990 4th editon and good for the 260 lathe.
I would not post a copy because Hercus still sell the book and they are very good in answering questions. I would hate to jeopardise that (or breach copyright!)
Finno

How about detailing the information on the shim please ?

Crikey, we're only trying to improve and repair a product no longer sold new. Don't post it on the internet, send an email, it is a backup copy.

cheers
Richard

Finnowa
22nd Sep 2009, 05:21 PM
I will PM you that procedure Richard.
Interestingly it states that is "the minimum required for smooth operation."
Which I read as some backlash is required ( i.e. at least 0.03mm)
When I discussed this with a tool maker, the teacher that sold the lathe to me, he pointed out that it was not an issue. The way you set up takes any backlash out.
Do not forget ( post above) that the backlash is a product of three components.
I also agree with Blackfrancis

Finno

Finnowa
22nd Sep 2009, 07:18 PM
Check this excellent thread on converting a Southbend to larger dials with proper thrust bearings.
"http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=150571"
.

Good one blackfrancis..:2tsup:
What an excellent set up he has (and I aspire to!)
That old South Bend looked very good.

Finno

watson
22nd Sep 2009, 09:09 PM
This thread is temporarily closed for Admin purposes. (HINT)

watson
22nd Sep 2009, 09:28 PM
Thread is open again.
Splashing in the pool, will result in children having their pool pass revoked.

No splashing OK??

jomac6
24th Sep 2009, 05:15 PM
Hi its jomac6 again, the text book of turning 1990/91 is the last edition, in one of the posts someone asked is the last edition better than the previous editions.Well the 1990 edition is written for the 260, but basiclly its just an upgrade.
The Spare parts manual has just photos and part numbers for the lathe and accesories, Why I mentioned the other book, (260 lathe mainteance manual) is that it has the schematics of all the lathe parts, it is only 19 photocopies from the original Hercus book I found this handy for trying to discover where all the hidden allen screws are.
By the way if you do remove the handle and dials, PLEASE put a clean cloth or paper under them before unassembleing.
Why ??? cause when I pulled mine apart, and turned the dial round to see the brass pad that sits under the adjusting screw it fell out never to be seen again, So I turned up a piece of nylon/plastic cut it off to length to repace the minute worn out brass pad.
The good thing about that is now I have a much more flexible adjustment for drag.
Its all a mystery. John Holloway.
PS send me an e/mail about the maintenance manual

dguildford
26th Sep 2009, 03:36 PM
Chasing Dial, a thing of beauty
Here is the Chasing Dial for a Hercus model A with a metric lead screw.

It is a thing of beauty, but how does it work?

Does anyone have a manual explaining the use of this part.

Frank

pipeclay
26th Sep 2009, 06:17 PM
The Gears engage on your Lead Screw.
You mount the Dial to suit the Pitch you wish to cut.
Check the Hercus book it explains what you need to do.

dguildford
26th Sep 2009, 06:56 PM
Thank you pipeclay, but some things I need explained are:
There are 3 gears marked 24,33,35? There is a peg and 3 matching holes.
There are 2 series of numbers on the face of the dial?
The Hercus book I have was downloaded from http://www.neme-s.org/Model_Engineer_Files/Hercus%20TextBook%20of%20Turning.pdf for an imperial lathe. It is a simpler setting and explained fully.

Do you have a reference for a metric lathe?

Thank you

Frank

pipeclay
26th Sep 2009, 08:08 PM
The peg corresponds to the appropriate gear,Either 24,33 or 35 teeth.
The 24,33 and 35 tooth allows you to cut the following pitches and you engage the dial when the appropriate number on the top of your dial corresponds with the mark on the body of the dial.
24: .4(3),.45(2),.8(3),.9(2),1.2(3),1.6(3),1.8(2),2(3),2.4(3),3.6(1),4(3),6(3),8(3).
33: 1.1(3),2.2(3),5.5(3)
35: .35(5),.7(5),1.25(7),1.4(5),1.75(5),2.5(7),3.5(5),5(7),7(5)
The numbers in brackets are where to engauage the others are the different pitches.
These pitches can be cut anywhere on the dial it dosent matter where you drop in,
.2,.25,.3,.5,.6,.75,1,1.5,3.

jomac6
26th Sep 2009, 08:19 PM
Help!!!! I need a dial indicator and intend makeing one so can you measure the gears and all the other dimensions,
ie, number of teeth DP, PA PCD and outside diameter.
Its too dear to buy an indicator, even if you can get one.
Im'e set up to cut gears, so any help would be VERY much appreciated.
John H:2tsup: