Hercus Lathe Oil

[Pete F]

I'm not sure what type of oil to use in the (plain) bearings of my Hercus. I'm told that there is a special oil that a company used to decant into useable sizes for us, also another anti-corrosion oil for the bed/ways, however the company has gone out of business. What are the suggestions now, and where to get it?

[Penpal]

A consesus on this forum over time would appear to be Chain Bar Oil. Mind you there are lots of brews out there called definitive , look forward to hear about them again from others to help you, my supply of appropriate oil is holding out. The brand does not exist as it came from a 20 litre drum 18 yrs ago.

Have success Peter:2tsup:

[Pete F]

The brand does not exist as it came from a 20 litre drum 18 yrs ago.

That would certainly fit the description of the oil described to me by the woman at the engineering supply company. I may go back there and ask again as she could quote the precise brand and type. Who knows, if enough people are interested 20l could be split.

Chain bar oil hey, cripes I would never have come up with that one, thanks for that.

[damian]

I use engine oil in the oil cups. Shell makes a oil that's "stringy", really hangs on to gears. That would be perfect for the gears, but I haven't bothered getting any yet. I just given them a squirt form a $2 oil can occasionally as they get noisy...it soon works it's way round the teeth...

The most important thing is there is some oil in the system, especially the plain bearings, so keep your oil cups full. As for slides WD40 is better than nothing. You can get it in a plastic bottle and trigger pump, much cheaper than aerosol cans.

[Pete F]

I use engine oil in the oil cups.

Ok, you're probably aware but according to the info I have from Atlas/Hercus/South Bend, they make a point of emphasising not to use engine oil BTW

[damian]

The origional spec was much thinner oils, but engine oil works, I know people who've been using it for 20 years in hercus 9" plain bearing machines.

Did they say why ?

[pipeclay]

If you are going to use an engine oil make it a 20 grade non detergent oil.Detergent based oils have a tendency to hold particles in them.
for what its worth I use hyspin 46 a light hydraulic oil,I believe they reccomend a 32 light machine oil for the spindle and a 140 for backgear lube.

[damian]

yeah but it's not circulated, so as it leaks out it takes the dirt/bearing wear bits with it ?

[Pete F]

Did they say why ?

Nope, just emphasised NOT to use it as it was unsuitable, anyway this bloke suggests why and another old lathe book I have gave the same reasons. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/archive/index.php/t-22758.html

I don't own a chainsaw so don't know anything about chainbar oil. Isn't it thick to help stop it getting flung off? I was wondering about air tool oil for spindle bearings etc

[Greg Q]

May I add a couple of thoughts?

1. Way Oil...Old machinery manuals will often specify Mobil Vactra 2 for way oil. Mobil changed the formulation of this oil and kept the name. The Mobil product that conforms to the old Vactra 2 specification is called "Vacuoline"

2. I read elsewhere that if your machine uses grease anywhere it pays to either identify what's there or remove it all before adding new grease. Some greases are incompatible with each other apparently.

Way oil contains tacifiers that make it sticky, like chain bar oil.

If you get any Vacuoline or similar* way oil I'll be happy to share the cost.

*shell vitrea 33,

Greg

[Pete F]

Gee, I had no idea how difficult getting the correct type of oil was going to be! I managed to track down the "correct" spindle oil, Velocite 10, but only available in 20l drums. Maybe if enough people around Sydney are interested we could split it? It will work out at about 10 bucks a litre but I doubt we would find 20 people interested. Anyway, post if you're prepared to pickup from Hornsby, sorry interstate people but can't post it.

For the moment, the alternatives look like Synthetic motor oil, Singer Sewing machine oil, or wander out to Bankstown and see if I can convince a refueller to sell me a quart or two of jet turbine oil (a jet engine is after all just a couple of giant spindles).

Pete

[jmk89]

I'll drop by to Hornsby for a litre or two. Thanks for going to the effort

[malb]

Retired instrument maker/fitter/turner friend has run his Myford from new on Briggs and Stratton 4 stroke motor oil, find it anywhere theres a Bunnings or mower shop, non detergent, single weight mineral oil, and thin enough to flow around and coat plain bearings etc.

Don's been retired for 18 years and the Myford averages about 20 hours running every week. He's had it since new, close to 30 years, and it looks and works as well as new.

I would be very sus about using a synthetic motor oil around a headstock as they are often include acid based components that etch steel long term and promote rust.

[Pete F]

I would be very sus about using a synthetic motor oil around a headstock as they are often include acid based components that etch steel long term and promote rust.

Yeah I agree, the other thing is mixing mineral and synthetic oils, they're not always friends, probably not a problem but why take the chance.

Ok well after a bit of a search I've gone with compressor oil for the bearings as it meets all the criteria so far as I can tell. For the gears and ways I'm using differential oil, basically just because I had an unopened bottle here. While the diff oil works very well it was only when I left the workshop and returned I realised just how much it stinks so think I may look for another alternative there.

Anyway it's running nicely, still have to properly level it but first chips flew this afternoon.

[Greg Q]

For the moment, the alternatives look like Synthetic motor oil, Singer Sewing machine oil, or wander out to Bankstown and see if I can convince a refueller to sell me a quart or two of jet turbine oil (a jet engine is after all just a couple of giant spindles).

Pete

Having been around turbine oil since 1975 or so let me recommend that you do not use it.

Turbine oils in the typical formulations (Esso 2380, 2381, Mobil Jet II etc) is acidic. Jet oil is also probably carcinogenic and the vapours are certainly irritating as hell. Jet oil is mixed for usable viscosities over a very wide range of temperatures, but it only sees hardened steel bearings. Brass, bronze and other metals may be damaged by it. Can you tell that I hate the stuff?

Greg (whose avatar used to use pure mineral oil after an overhaul, Aeroshell 80 IIRC. Now there's a thought...the aviation dealers may still supply mineral oil in usable viscosities.

[kats1719]

I have only used Vacuoline type way oil in my lathe. bridgeport. grinder. ect it workes plus i get it for free from a frend but only in small amounts

[Retromilling]

For your bedways Shell Tonna s680 Slideway oil. For the sleeve bearings the most important thing is the oil viscosity.It should be thin enough to go through the oil cups but not so thin that it runs straight out of the bearings.Lathes with enclosed quick change gear box are a different situation they use hydraulic type oils. This allows any contaminates to quickly fall to the bottom of the gear case and does not foam up.Vacuoline is an oil that satisfies hydraulic systems and has good corrosion protection for the bed ways also. It should be a good alround choice also.Velocite 10 is a high speed spindle oil mainly for close tolerance bearings it is very similar to Vacuoline being used in hydraulic systems and having low foaming . However it thinner in viscosity.If the sleeve bearings are tight then this oil is suitable but if they have some wear use a thicker oil.

[flinders]

Retired instrument maker/fitter/turner friend has run his Myford from new on Briggs and Stratton 4 stroke motor oil, find it anywhere theres a Bunnings or mower shop, non detergent, single weight mineral oil, and thin enough to flow around and coat plain bearings etc.

Got some Briggs and Stratton 4 stroke oil and it IS a detergent oil according to the fine print on the container. So it went back. Maybe it once was non-detergent?? Still looking for a readily available oil for the lathe

[Pete F]

Using compressor oil, specs seemed to match spindle oil pretty much, maybe not quite as good, who knows. Get it from the same source.

[flinders]

You mean Bunnings?

[Pete F]

Yes Bunnings sells compressor oil, in tool section. Not expensive

[wannabe]

When you say Compressor Oil are you referring to Air Line Oiler Oil or oil you put into the compressor. I was just looking at details for Mobil Velocite No:10 and it's saying it's suitable for inline air oilers.

I'm just going through this whole oil scenario thing again for the umpteenth time and I'm still totally confused. Everything I know I 'should' be using I can only get in 20 litre quantities.
Went into Supercheap on the weekend to get some Tellus hydraulic oil based on what I've been reading here in the forums. They only had 32 and I wasn't sure about that so left it. Have since done some reading on the Shell site and they are saying not to use straight Tellus on chrome plated components, use Tellus S instead. I'm not sure if I have any chrome plathed stuff on the lathe or the mill so better to err on the side of safety and go for Tellus S. Don't know yet if this is available in 5 litre quantities but my bet would be NO.

At the moment I'm using Singer Sewing Machine Oil on the spindle, Chainsaw Oil for ways on mill and lathe and a general purpose oil for everything else.

Total confusion. You wouldn't think getting oil for the lathe and mill could be so frustrating. Oils ain't oils.

[Pete F]

Well the inline oilers will technically be oiling the tools not the compressor, and it's very light stuff. No the compressor oil is designed for the compressor itself, find it in the tool section of Bunnings.

Yes oils aint oils but at the end of the day it's there simply to lubricate a relatively low speed spindle under light load at room temperature. Compared to the demands some modern manufacturing machines place on their lubrication systems this is not a big ask. I would guess if the oil used was too thin in a total loss system it would migrate through faster than desired but at the end of the day chances are most here probably pamper their toy and keep it well oiled so are unlikely to run the bearings dry.

Pete