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009jim
2nd Dec 2007, 04:14 PM
hi All

I could use some advice on welding of car body panels. This is for my little 1984 ute which I've decided I'll have to repair myself as I cannot get anyone to quote on the job. They all just shake their heads and make grunting sounds. The auto restoration business is only about replacing parts these days. The door is only slightly damaged and it has a mere 50k on the odometer so I'm determined to fix it. As I see it there are two or three possible ways for welding thin car panels. That would be OXY & MIG (gas/gasless).

Considering Oxy-acetylene welding. I'm pretty familiar with this. I have my own set. I have welded (I don't mean brazing either) quite a lot of thin material, just handyman stuff, but haven't used it on car panels. I don't necessarily want to buy a MIG and learn how to use it just for one job, but if a MIG is essential for doing car panels then I will. But, MIG hasn't been around all that long, so, did they use OXY before MIG was invented? Time is not a factor for me because I'm only doing the job once for myself.

So, can anyone comment on welding car panels with the OXY?

L8N
2nd Dec 2007, 05:19 PM
Oxy will work i have had a patch pannel welded in to the boot of a vb commodore it did warp abit though. Mig probily wouldnt warp as much. To controll warping do small runs and leave to cool down between runs. check out http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/index.php you might get some better answers on how to go about it there

Master Splinter
2nd Dec 2007, 07:12 PM
Oxy will do it, but you may find that you end up with a heck of a lot of distortion in the panel that will take you forever to chase out, plus the back of the panel will become a rust magnet if you can't reach it to clean/paint it.

If you do decide to oxy it, use a small tip, do lots of little tack welds to help hold the panel shape, get the panels to butt join perfectly so you don't need to add filler rod (I've used MIG wire as filler rod when I've wanted really neat little welds)...and best of luck!

MIG would be the way to go; but even then I'd stick to using it where repair joins are supposed to be made and not in the middle of a flat panel because of distortion. Personally I'd be tempted to hire a TIG for the job, but thats just because I know that my TIG skills are better than my MIG skills.

If it's only the door, why not hunt up a new (secondhand) door from the wreckers and just swap them over. It'd be less work by an order of magnitude!

009jim
2nd Dec 2007, 08:26 PM
Thanks for those replies so far guys. I've already been chasing another door but this utility was maybe not so common and I have had only marginal success. What I found would take more work than what I have!

Brickie
2nd Dec 2007, 08:30 PM
But, MIG hasn't been around all that long,

Only since 1948. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_welding) :roll:

China
2nd Dec 2007, 08:55 PM
009jim you will need to hammer weld the joint, wel a shot distance then hamer the weld with a dolly behind the weld to flatten it and help reduce distorsion, if you are unable to get to back of the panel you would be better to offset the edges with a flanging tool and braze weld the joint. Don't think that Mig has replaced Oxy for body work only in the crash repair industry. Many top custom body shops all around the world still prefer oxy for this type of work

Grahame Collins
2nd Dec 2007, 11:43 PM
Welcome to the mob Jim

You have oxy and could not get a better tool for the job. Yes it does take some skill and practice.
My advice

Low pressure setting about 35 to 50 KPa.Oxy and Acetylene equal pressures.
Use the smallest tip you can lay your hands on.
Using a true neutral flame-big problems with oxidization if flame is set oxidising.
Clean shiny material- you can't weld with any rust present.
Spread the heat - small portions of weld spread around the panel. Weld on one side then the other as it counteracts the weld on the opposite.Cool down with a bucket of water a wet rag.
A copper heat sink jammed behind the weld seam to wick up the excess heat- a 150 x 75 x 1.6mm copper sheet- can be shaped to panel curves.
Do not use mig filler wire as a filler-most of it is LW1 which is high tensile which WILL give you major distortion due to a different strength and rate of cooling to the parent metal.New clean soft steel welding wire is the go.Remember clean,clean clean.
An excellent text is Donald Wait 's Car Body Repair which is printed by Gregorys and available at Super Cheap where I purchased mine.I used his original book written around then,it belonged to my mate who used it in Tafe.
A cheap panel set - hammer ,dolly etc- also at supercheap will assist in correcting the little distortion you should encounter if you do the other stuff right.
As Splinter indicated clean up and treat inside panel as the surface untreated is rust city.


Splinter is correct on most points points but I can't agree with him on using the mig wire and major distortion from using the oxy .The above should have explained it.

I been down that road when I was unaware of the difference in the wire designations and chose the copper coated one cos it did not rust- big mistake - big distortion-.

My motor mech mate put me on to the Donald Wait and the soft wire and it went together very well. Theres probably more but is has been thirty years and I have forgotten a lot.I will post if i have any more brain phartz.
I hope this helps you

Grahame

wheelinround
3rd Dec 2007, 08:16 AM
Jim what they have said is all pretty correct I have done many of these.
Like the repairers who shook their heads it can turn into a night mare due to distortion its the biggest problem and a 1984 is damn thin metal usually especially Datsun/Nissan. if you can press your thumb into the panel and leave a dent its very very thin.

What make model maybe a pic of the damage.

you'll need to remove the sound proofing and mastic from the back of the area to be welded and make sure the window is either all the way up or better yet removed have seen many forget this ending up with a broken glass from over heating or hitting and smashing :doh:

009jim
3rd Dec 2007, 07:27 PM
Thanks China, Grahame and Wheelin, et.al. for those useful and detailed comments. I've done some researching of my own and it has supported exactly what you're saying. I have a big pack of soft wire but due to it's age I will give it a clean up before I use each rod. This is a great forum.

kevjed
3rd Dec 2007, 08:14 PM
Oxy is the way to go.
I'd use one of these if you can borrow one: http://www.amweld.com.au/
Henrob 2000. Uses low gas pressure and can use very small tips for the very thin stuff. You can even weld aluminum with a bit of practice.

009jim
3rd Dec 2007, 09:00 PM
hi kevjed

That's very interesting. Have you used the DHC2000? I checked out the web site. It sounds believable, but so does everything if you want to believe. Seems like it would be uncomfortable to use the piston grip for downhand work though?

China
3rd Dec 2007, 10:03 PM
009jim I have used the DHC2000, my opinion is that it is overated and I found it awkward to use, see if you can borrow one before you out lay you cash, I was able to borrow one from a mate who swears by it. I personally wouldn't buy one

Grahame Collins
3rd Dec 2007, 10:08 PM
Hi Jim,
A couple more things.
Panel metal.

More than likely the bottom of the door edge has gone.Replacement with a zinc anneal sheet is possible.If you can make a profile template it is often possible for a sheet metal works to roll up the door skin and start the wrap around flanges.It is usually joined adjacent to the horizontal body stiffener line.

A panel joggle tool if you can get one, makes a lap finish possible .The lap finish allows you to have a overlap which ends up flush. I will have to research a link for you.
I replaced the the bottom half of rusted door skins in a TATA ute a few years back using Zinc anneal and the joggling tool.
A spot weld cutting tool can be a handy thing if they are still available-they are a tiny holesaw with a spring loaded pivot pin which cuts the panel around the spot weld.

The Henrob is OK if you can get one but hard too justify the 600 or 700 dollars for a one of use. If you have excess money maybe, but I would urge caution if $ are hard to come by.
There is also the matter of conversion of the Yank standard Oxy Acetylene threaded fittings which it comes with, to Aussie standard fittings.
Hopefully the system and the vendors has improved a lot since our school made the purchase. We at school fortunately had acess to a qualified oxy acetylene repair specialist who got it going no thanks to the vendors. After sales service were just words to those guys.
It runs better on Low pressure gauges which were extras.Well supported the system may do better than it has been. Based upon our experiences with the system we could not recommend it to others.

Cheers
Grahame

kevjed
3rd Dec 2007, 10:14 PM
009jim,
yes I have the Henrob 2000 as my main oxy gun.
It is wonderful for thin material but a pain on any thing over 6mm. They have a heat shield that is needed for the thicker stuff as your hand is closer to the work than with a traditional torch.(I'd use TIG or MIG for the thicker stuff any way)
I don't do much welding any more but have done a fair few thin sheet jobs. Like any tool though you just need to get to know how to handle all the variables. You just need to get comfortable and you can weld in any direction from any position. If you can borrow one for your job then do so. I will always go to this torch for anything <5mm.
All the best

Grahame Collins
3rd Dec 2007, 10:16 PM
Here ya go
handy but not essential.
grahame

Metal Head
3rd Dec 2007, 10:20 PM
Nice one kevjed.

If you look in the gallery section there are some great pictures of various items be welded up with this torch. I have used them in the past and they are excellent for brass & copper related jobs.

In 1988 whilst in the RAF, I had new sills welded on my car by a so called welder from another squadron. When I went to pick the car up from his house I nearly died due to the distortion that had happened on both sides of the car just forward of the rear wheel arch - I could have sworn he must have used a cutting torch to have caused that much. I ended up having to take it to a body panel shop who got the distortion out but they had to respray the whole of both the back panels because it was too hard to match up the metallic paint that was 7 years old!!. So it turned out to be an expensive job in the end.

I was told later that I should have had it mig welded but as some of you have said unless it is nice clean metal you are wasting your time.

Has anyone ever spot welded items onto a car before?

Cheers
MH

durwood
4th Dec 2007, 05:48 PM
I was at work today and had the camera in the car so took these photo's of a guard which hangs on the wall in the panel beating workshop. I thought those looking at this thread may be interested in them. This type of repair can't be done with a mig welder. Lucky for me I have always worked with trademen who excelled at this type of work, unfortunately its hard to find younger tradesmen who are really good at it and as governments have been steadly downsizing tafe colleges you can not easily get classes which teach such skills. 10 years ago anyone wanting to learn to restore a car could enrol in tafe, today virtually all such courses have disappeared.

The advice about oxy is spot on but as you have not exactly stated what the repair exactly is it's a bit hard to give more specific advice.

First thing is the welding of thin panels is a particular skill, so different that normal welding classes don't teach it. In the panel beating trade its taught as one of the first basic skills they need. A good student normally takes 3 to 6 months at tech before he finally gets the various techniques mastered well enough that his boss would let him attack asimple job on a customers car. Often some never get the hang of it properly and others you wouldn't let anywhere near a car.

Any decently trained panel beater would have no problem oxy welding any panel and getting a good result. Unfortunately time is often the main consideration and smash repairers are paid probably the worst hourly rate of any trade ( its only $30-$35 per hour) so usually its a rough beat out zap with a mig welder and plastered with plastic filler or easier still replace the panel. After a few years most tradesmen loose the skill enough that you get that blank look when you ask them to repair a panel properly.

If you know of anyone who is in a car club or has a restored car they probably know someone who is able to do such work. If this repair is not that big I would be making further enquiries before setting about tackling the job. If you don't get the techniques correct you may turn a fairly simple repair into a major stuff up which may not be easily fixed. If this is not possible then Grahame Collins advice about getting my old boss Don Wait's book is the way to go.

The photo's are of two front guards cut in half and welded together with oxy, they are file finished on the front. The back as you can see still shows the weld. The paint on the front and the proof coating on the back are removed well and truely away from the repair before it is welded. The student who did this would have received a mark in the high 80's. You can just see that some of the join is still visible after filing, done properly the join is invisible from the front and requires no more filling before the painter can respray it.

If we knew exactly what the repair was I'm sure we could give you some more specific advice.

Metal Head, exactly what is it about spot welding on a car you are enquiring about?

Metal Head
4th Dec 2007, 08:15 PM
Unfortunately time is often the main consideration and smash repairers are paid probably the worst hourly rate of any trade (its only $30-$35 per hour)

You have obviously never worked in a factory durwood? As a qualified fitter & turner I have never earnt more that $25 an hour. So I wouldn't say that you are being hard done by in comparison to other trades people:wink:.

You can just see that some of the join is still visible after filing, done properly the join is invisible from the front and requires no more filling before the painter can respray it.

Did you mean "filling" as in filler compound or "filing" with a metal file?


Metal Head, exactly what is it about spot welding on a car you are enquiring about?

Like guards (known as wings in the UK) to the engine compartment, or new sills to the existing framework, or is spotwelding not used because it's welds aren't strong enough??

durwood
4th Dec 2007, 08:47 PM
I've worked in lots of factories and for myself, What the actual worker gets is not the hourly rate. The boss has to pay your holidays, sick pay. compo plus all the business cost and more. I don't know of any tradesman who quotes less than $60 an hour costs that much for a washing machine mechanic, next door the neighbour has builders who are working on $70. If I get my car serviced they charge $65 and half the time its an apprentice who's doing the service work like changing oil.

I meant filing, the metal is welded, planished with a hammer and dolly and then a body file is used to smooth the surface. If there are highs or lows they are then brought up to level with the hammer and dolly or with a pick hammer to riase the area or heated up and shrunk to remove the stretched metal and the process is repeated until the metal is smooth and the desired shape. If you arn't good at this the answer is to use a plastic filler or lead to level the surface. but he ideal is smooth metal no highs and lows - invisible repair.

Spot welds are numerous on a car there are thousands of them. Depending on the design they may or not be used in certain places. A lot of cars don't spot weld the front guards onto the skirts so thay can be easily replaced. The repairer has a choise of methods for original spot weld parts. He can use a mig, plug weld or spot weld or oxy weld depending on the circumstances.

On a lot of the new cars the steel used is special high strenght and you have to spot weld ( or use specified welding) or the repair is not safe.

009jim
5th Dec 2007, 09:11 AM
Thanks for the comments guys. This info is invaluable. Grahame, I'd like to know more about that joggle joint. Is it like the side seams on my Levi's jeans? The bottom of my door will be OK. This little ute has never been near the coast. Came from out at Winton in central QLD. Where did you buy your zinc anneal sheet from? I'm definitely getting Donald Waits books (asked Mum and Dad for Xmas, hehe).

Metal Head
5th Dec 2007, 12:29 PM
I've worked in lots of factories and for myself, What the actual worker gets is not the hourly rate. The boss has to pay your holidays, sick pay. compo plus all the business cost and more. I don't know of any tradesman who quotes less than $60 an hour costs that much for a washing machine mechanic, next door the neighbour has builders who are working on $70. If I get my car serviced they charge $65 and half the time its an apprentice who's doing the service work like changing oil.

I meant filing, the metal is welded, planished with a hammer and dolly and then a body file is used to smooth the surface. If there are highs or lows they are then brought up to level with the hammer and dolly or with a pick hammer to riase the area or heated up and shrunk to remove the stretched metal and the process is repeated until the metal is smooth and the desired shape. If you arn't good at this the answer is to use a plastic filler or lead to level the surface. but he ideal is smooth metal no highs and lows - invisible repair.

Spot welds are numerous on a car there are thousands of them. Depending on the design they may or not be used in certain places. A lot of cars don't spot weld the front guards onto the skirts so thay can be easily replaced. The repairer has a choise of methods for original spot weld parts. He can use a mig, plug weld or spot weld or oxy weld depending on the circumstances.

On a lot of the new cars the steel used is special high strenght and you have to spot weld ( or use specified welding) or the repair is not safe.

Thanks for the reply Durwood:2tsup:.

Uncle Bob
5th Dec 2007, 01:06 PM
Oxy eh. I thought TIG would've been the process of choice.
Well, you learn something everyday :)

Grahame Collins
5th Dec 2007, 05:53 PM
Hi Jim
what you are after is a Panel Flanging Tool

http://www.totaltools.com.au/downloads/TTI_AirTools/TTI_airtool_23_24.pdf

or as a manual type
see photo below.

Your ute will have no tricky alloys to weld.

What other correspondents refer to are what I know as HSLA High strength low alloys.The reason for many new vehicles being able to acheive better fuel economies is that.
the steel is thinner ,weighs less than equivalent thickness in the old type steel but is much stronger than the old stuff.

As for zinc anneal sheets see your local sheet metalworks who will advise you on the correct thickness .I think it is around .6mm thick from memory.

Don't be afraid to get some old scrap panel OLD panel not HSLA panels and have a good practice before you even touch the old ute.

Cheers for now
Grahame

009jim
5th Dec 2007, 07:37 PM
hey Grahame

On that tool sheet I see a couple of mini-hacksaws. This is exactly the thing I will require for my cutting out of the damaged area. I am aiming to do a really fine cut so there is minimal gap when I weld the panel back in. Thanks, where do you get those tools? I assume I can find it from their web page? Yes - there is one handy in Brisbane.

I reckon that HSLA is what I would have called "high strength quenched and tempered low carbon steel". But, usually called Bisalloy. I have welding specs for that but understandably the strength properties are lost once it has been heated up above 800 degC. Hopefully this won't be something I come up against. It's a good idea to get some old panel to practice. I'm going to make some strips up as backing bar for my welds too, I think.

009jim
5th Dec 2007, 08:05 PM
hi Folks

Here's the photo of my door damage. Looks bad but is localised. Hinge area is bent back but I believe workable. Frame on the car body side seems fine, luckily. By cutting out the skin damage I gain access to work on the hinge area from both sides too. I'm thinking of tek-screwing the door to a wood pallet once I get it off, then I can hold it with my boot while I apply some force on the hinge area.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb160/yllekden/Img_1089_small.jpg

Grahame Collins
5th Dec 2007, 09:19 PM
Hi jim
I thought you had a rusty door base.My advice on cutting was based around that premise. the picture is worth a thousand words. Maybe you won't need those toys.
The repair now does not look all that daunting.If there's not much damage to the door frame, I would consider pulling that damage out with a slide hammer. The majority of the work is done with the slide hammer and the rest with a dolly and slapper.
I would leave the door frame intact,to start with, so it can resist the force being applied to the skin.
It appears to be damage caused by reversing with an open door and catching a post - gateway was it?

Its just me, but I think you could get away without the need to cut a piece out of the panel. But I don't claim to a panel beater.What say the real panel beaters ?

Its sounds like from your comments about Bisalloy that you are a metal fabricator .If thats the case you can save a quid and even make the slide hammer. Save a few dollars.

Grahame

China
5th Dec 2007, 10:49 PM
As Grahame said you don't need to do any cutting just lots of pulling and hammering plus some shrinking, as said previously go and buy Don wait's book this book is the BIBLE for beginners

durwood
5th Dec 2007, 11:29 PM
Yep No welding needed there, wish we had a picture (as Graheme said - worth a thousand words) would have saved a lot of posts.

No welding just pulling back to original shape and repairing the damage but you will need a lot more force than your boot can exert. A panel Beater uses one of several hydraulic ram devices to do a job like this clamp onto the back edge of the door grab the damaged edge and pull it back then repair any frame and skin damage left.

Get Don's book or another door.

wheelinround
6th Dec 2007, 07:47 AM
quickest is to deskin the door and work the hinge area as well as the brace the door is buckled to half way along and bent at the top also the hinges will possibly be out of shape as well. Then the top window frame will need to be checked.

If you can get a hold of a ram puller or even a small bottle jack using oxy to heat/warm the areas you'll straighten that out no worries it ill take time for a beginner.

Remove the window winder and glass :doh:

Oh and dont be surprised if the door pillar is out of wack a little

I did my TAFE course with Donald Waits SIL he was head teacher back in the 70's.

009jim
6th Dec 2007, 08:50 AM
Well guys, the panel beaters wouldn't touch it! I was shocked, as you can see, the damage is not a big deal. Last thing I expected was to have to do the job myself. I'm really looking forward to it though, because I have fixed just about everything that moves in my life, thanks to all my Dad taught me, but I've never done panel beating or car restoration. Who knows where this will take me.

BTW I actually did the damage by letting the vehicle roll away. Sadly the rear end is damaged too but we will discuss that another time. The door is the main dilemma.

I am somewhat shocked by the guys that are suggesting the panel can be fixed without removal from the door. Consider this, by cutting that piece out I figure it will be a cinch to just hammer out the ding. Then the bonus is, that while the piece is cut out I can also work the area near the hinges. I reckon it'll be a little bit tricky to cut out the spot welds along the front of the skin before I can remove the cut piece.

wheelinround
6th Dec 2007, 09:36 AM
Well guys, the panel beaters wouldn't touch it! I was shocked, as you can see, the damage is not a big deal. Last thing I expected was to have to do the job myself. I'm really looking forward to it though, because I have fixed just about everything that moves in my life, thanks to all my Dad taught me, but I've never done panel beating or car restoration. Who knows where this will take me.

BTW I actually did the damage by letting the vehicle roll away. Sadly the rear end is damaged too but we will discuss that another time. The door is the main dilemma.

I am somewhat shocked by the guys that are suggesting the panel can be fixed without removal from the door. Consider this, by cutting that piece out I figure it will be a cinch to just hammer out the ding. Then the bonus is, that while the piece is cut out I can also work the area near the hinges. I reckon it'll be a little bit tricky to cut out the spot welds along the front of the skin before I can remove the cut piece.

I can understand why they didn't want to touch it.

:o:no: Jim if you cut it you'll regret it and have a bigger headache easier to undo all the spot welds and remove the skin really, that way you can panel beat the door frame and the skin cleaner less hassle the oxy spot weld the skin back on.

This will give better access you need swingin room

a sample of jobs done over the yrs none of them are MY damage
180B SIL, Corolla LOML, Mini contract restore respray,
Nissan a mate had parked under a bridge at Parramatta and ended up with chunks of coal dropping of trains leaving dents I did all prep work and dent removal prior respray
Suburu last one done recently 2 yrs ago next door neighbour and pole

009jim
6th Dec 2007, 08:57 PM
You make some good sense there "Wheelin". You have some fine work there too by the looks.

I understand there is a small tool for drilling out spot welds. Anyone know where I can get this?

Grahame Collins
7th Dec 2007, 06:46 AM
I understand there is a small tool for drilling out spot welds. Anyone know where I can get this?


http://www.autotools.com.au/catalogue/product.php/10/125/1383

Most places that stock panel beating gear will have them and some of the higher end auto accessory shops.

Grahame

wheelinround
7th Dec 2007, 08:06 AM
You make some good sense there "Wheelin". You have some fine work there too by the looks.

I understand there is a small tool for drilling out spot welds. Anyone know where I can get this?

I used to use a 3/16 drill bit and just take it easy so I didn't go right through the panel :doh:

cousin in law used to heat with oxy :no: this used to be ok with heavy panels light panels buckle to easy.

You can as I said previous use a bottle jack and blocks of wood to bend the door frame back to shape heating the area helps. You may have to go just past the point so its springs back with some hammer work still to do. The frame I can see is twisted so watch that!!

Chris Parks
7th Dec 2007, 08:41 PM
I meant filing, the metal is welded, planished with a hammer and dolly and then a body file is used to smooth the surface. If there are highs or lows they are then brought up to level with the hammer and dolly or with a pick hammer to riase the area or heated up and shrunk to remove the stretched metal and the process is repeated until the metal is smooth and the desired shape. If you arn't good at this the answer is to use a plastic filler or lead to level the surface. but he ideal is smooth metal no highs and lows - invisible repair.

Now that brings back memories, all bad ones, gee I'm having a nightmare. :oo: I wonder if lead is used now due to OH&S concerns? Anyone doing this sort of work these days is either a millionaire or going broke I reckon. Who would want to lead fill anyway, it was only because there was nothing else, the same with Oxy, MIG is the winner here any day of the week. Unfortunately that was all there was and we used it. Ah, the good old days...not.

durwood
7th Dec 2007, 11:12 PM
Mini, Yes lead is still used, its the only satisfactory way to fill joints on vehicles with lapped over panels.

Anyone with a vehicle more than 30 years old will probably have a vehicle that has lead filled joints. Modern vehicles don't as they are designed to eliminate the need for such joints. Usually the joints are placed in a position where they can be not seen like behind a plastic bumper bar.

In a car plant the lead loading bay on the assembly line was always a problem. If you toured the factories the guide always made the point that the workers in the lead section got better pay than other workers. Part of the reason was danger money and part was the specific skill required to do it.

Plastic filler helped see the end of lead in some workshops ( it was even tried on the assembly line when Leyland were operating) but it is not a patch on lead. If you fill a dent with plastc filler and a similar one with lead you can easily see the difference real quick.

Just turn over the panel hit the plastic filled one with a hammer and the plastic will immediately fly out. Try it with the lead one and you can belt hell out of it forever and the lead won't let go.

Any decent restoration shop or top class panel shop doing quality work will use lead. They even still use it in the USA saw some being put in a hot rod on Discovery channel recently.

It is only suitable for certain areas. you can't use it easily if the panel is large and flat as the heat will tend to buckle the metal. It is used in areas not accessable from the rear to panel beat out or in areas with a lot of shape that won't buckle when heated.

Unfortunately its a dying art and even though its still taught at Tafe colleges most students don't work in shops that do such quality work.

The start of this thread will point to that, 009jim can't even get his door repaired and its an easy repair.

As goes safety, there are rules to follow, you can't grind it with an angle grinder or a sander (well you can but its dangerous as the lead shavings coming off the disc have so much inertia they can fly several meters with the force of a shot gun pellet) it must be filed and you obviously need to be in a well ventilated area when applying the molten lead. If you are soldering anything you are doing exactly the same process .

With the problem with oil prices etc cars are now made as light as possible so lead is not a goer but if you need to repair the roof of an FJ Holden where the side panel joins or something similar the only way its going to be a lasting job it to lead wipe the joint where the two meet.

Dino1
1st Sep 2008, 04:44 AM
good day

i would like to steer this into a repair i am doing on my daughetrs car, it is a ford laser 1987 that rear ended a ford ute 1985 the towbar pushed the air con intercooler through into the radiatoe and so smashed the grill, lights and bent the bonet.

i have panelled most of the damage out and straightened the radiator surround, however there are some cracks that will require welding i was going to purchase a gaslesss mig

any thoughts

Sibbo
6th Sep 2008, 08:11 PM
Hello gentlemen ,
as you can see I'm a rank newcomer but with your permission I'd like to ask a question .

As with originator of this thread ,I have an ancient ute repair .A 1981 Rodeo Diesel with some rust ...not too much but such that it needs cutting out .I have oxy /lpg ....can I use this ?
If so ,what provisos ?

niall
12th Sep 2008, 10:58 PM
Not sure if this will help but it may be cheaper in the long run. I bought from total tools in moorabin a benzomatic with oxy kit a bit like a baby oxy actelene kit but u own it and dont have to rent bottles. I have heated 3/4 copper to sivler solder in about 30 seconds
and they say you can weld and braze with it...Not sure if this will help..