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garfield
2nd Nov 2007, 11:07 AM
G'day all,

I've never welded before, but would like to start. I have a small project that I'd like to get started on.

I'm building a camp kitchen and i need to weld/make a rectangular shape base frame using steel tube - say 40mm x 20mm with a 1 - or 1.5mm wall.

I'm thinking of buying a GMC arc welder from Bunnies they're pretty cheap $100 there abouts, and tackling this myself as it's not a hugely important or large job that requires tradesman like welding. I was wondering if anybody else has sort over time self taught them selves to weld?

I'll also be welding a couple of cut down tent poles to use as legs for my camp kitchen.

So bottom line two Questions - 1: is the GMC arc welder ok for what I'd like to do?

2: does anyone see a problem with me trying this without any experience?

thanks
Geoff

DJ’s Timber
2nd Nov 2007, 12:49 PM
Here's a few links to get you started. A few of the members have the GMC welder and from all accounts, seems to be a useful little welder.

Welding light tubing will require a bit a know how, but if you read up on the following links you should be able to do it. You'll need to use 1.6mm tube as a minimum.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=19428
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=51277
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=44815
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=43621
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=34235

BobL
2nd Nov 2007, 04:50 PM
The GMC should be fine (just bear in mind it will not last for ever).

DJ has already given you all the good URLS - Hey these should be in a sticky at the MM (Mr Moderator :D)

Here as bit of a quick and dirty sumamry.

Figure on spendin at least the same on PPE
- elbow length leather gloves
- A decent helmet

If you don't have one you really will need a (cheap is OK) angle grinder to cut, clean and tidy up the tubing. Plus
- a full face clear mask
- decent ear muffs

I suggest you consider using 1.6 mm thick walled tubing as you will probably end up spending a lot of time patching holes in any tubing thinner than this. Once you have mastered this you can try 1.2 mm - I think you are really pushing it with 1 mm without a MIG.

Don't try to learn how to strike arcs or practice on the tubing.
- Get hold of some scrap 3 mm thick steel and clean up and then practice after cleaning back to bare metal, striking arcs, and running longe beads on flat metal first.
- Try the same with a dirty/rusty/oily surface and see what happens
- Try different currents and arc lengths etc - those marked on the welder ar not always right.
- Then try joing some pieces of 3 mm, varying the same parameters
- Finally try the tubing.

Here endth the lesson - now if only I could weld as well as I know the theory :~

garfield
2nd Nov 2007, 06:20 PM
Thanks guys..... yeah I wasn't sure what size wall exactly and stuff like that.

I really just want a cheapie welder and just wanna learn as I go weld non-structual things, like this project I have going now.

I always get great advice in this forum and thought I'd get advice for this one too.

obee60
2nd Nov 2007, 06:50 PM
Garfield,
Being a TIG welder by trade the best advice I can give you is start by practising on heavier plate. Like at least 3mm and then keep practising.
I worked with an old bloke in the late 70s who could weld stainless steel sink bowls with a stick and that is less than 1mm thick. He could only do that after many years practise.
Another tip is - keep your rods dry. Don't leave them in a damp area. They really should be kept in a cabinet with a light in it to help drive off moisture. When they're wet (damp) they take a lot more effort to start.

Cheers.......obee

Grahame Collins
2nd Nov 2007, 07:45 PM
Hi garfield,
A little GMC is fine for what you wish to achieve.
A bit of practice as in anything one does,will never go astray.

Grab a bit of scrap a bit thicker (at first) .Electrodes if available in 2mm and 2.5mm are the shot- Look for 6012( or 4812) or 4 or 6013(or 4813 ) on the labellings.

The electrodes are struck like a match and lifted slightly.The electrode is dragged inclined in the direction of travel. The arc is maintained at a height roughly at the electrode core wire diameter.It is easy to say but hard to do.
What you are looking for is a bead consistently wide and of consistent height with an even crescent shaped ripple pattern.The slag on a properly deposited weld will just peel up away from the deposited weld metal or fall off at the touch of a chipping hammer.

Buy your welder and start some practice and if you have probs the mob here can and will help you.

Cheers
Grahame

garfield
4th Nov 2007, 10:48 PM
Thanks for that.... I might tackle it over a couple of weeks and hopefully see some improvement. Its just that I've never ever did any welding before and I know bugger all about a welder its self, but I'm so keen to learn and hopefully be a dependable small home job welder.

garfield
3rd Dec 2007, 10:23 PM
Hi all, I still haven't brought my welder yet :no: but i'm close. I've been looking on ebay and stuff, what do you guys with the knowlage think of something like this http://cgi.ebay.com.au/BRAND-NEW-200AMP-TIG-INVERTER-DC-WELDER_W0QQitemZ110198602336QQihZ001QQcategoryZ3247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
v's a GMC mig welder from Bunnies for $100??

BobL
3rd Dec 2007, 11:02 PM
Hi all, I still haven't brought my welder yet :no: but i'm close. I've been looking on ebay and stuff, what do you guys with the knowlage think of something like this http://cgi.ebay.com.au/BRAND-NEW-200AMP-TIG-INVERTER-DC-WELDER_W0QQitemZ110198602336QQihZ001QQcategoryZ3247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
v's a GMC mig welder from Bunnies for $100??

3 months warranty says it all for me.

Grahame Collins
3rd Dec 2007, 11:42 PM
Hi Garfield
We all all short of a quid and search the Fleabay for bargains but a bargain, this one is not a bargain. I think its a major PITA waiting to happen to some one.

The specs seem very suss to me.

This a gut feeling based on what I understand about about stick welders. Now, sure these are Inverter specs and I have been been very wrong before - and apologized-

85% efficiency- should be much better than that for an inverter.I have used a good stick machines capable of that.

Take more notice of the 21amp Input rating and the 60% duty cycle. Electrical guys! If I am stuffing this one up too, please feel free to put us all right.

How many have plus 20 amp Gpo's?
60% Duty cycle many stick welders(big uns will run at 100% duty cycle )

And I could not find the bit that said no trouble with spare parts cos it wasn't there!.

Honestly, I reckon it depends on what you are doing.For light work the little GMC is a good as anything else and its got more than 3 months warranty and it will run on a 10 amp plug.
Cheers
Grahame

garfield
4th Dec 2007, 07:39 AM
forgive my stupidity guys, but with that GMC mig welder do i need to have a special power point installed or something?

Basically i want to acheive this (picture below) with a welder to make some legs for my camp kitchen i've just built. It will be some cut down tent pegs welded in a few spots.

61666

DJ’s Timber
4th Dec 2007, 08:36 AM
Hi all, I still haven't brought my welder yet :no: but i'm close. I've been looking on ebay and stuff, what do you guys with the knowlage think of something like this http://cgi.ebay.com.au/BRAND-NEW-200AMP-TIG-INVERTER-DC-WELDER_W0QQitemZ110198602336QQihZ001QQcategoryZ3247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
v's a GMC mig welder from Bunnies for $100??

Whoa, lets back up here.

First of all I wouldn't go anywhere near this welder with a barge pole, my Lincoln Inverter welder is 250amps and will run of a 15amp P/point and has much better efficiency then that one, mind you I paid $1600 for it secondhand.

Now the Whoa bit, your now changing the tune here.

At the start and until this post I've quoted here we were all talking about the GMC Arc Welder, now your talking about a MIG.

I would be very wary of the GMC MIG as they use consumables whereas the ARC doesn't apart from the rods and I don't think you'll pick up a GMC MIG for a $100 either.

Just be aware, the little MIGs don't like continuously welding, and you will need to be able to source new tips, nozzles and liners for it not to mention having a regulator and gas bottle for it as well.

If you go the gasless route, it will need a very good duty cycle or it will overheat and shut down till it has cooled down and if done continuously will shorten it's life.

acton
4th Dec 2007, 11:24 AM
Assuming we are talking about the arc welder and not the mig, then the GMC will work fine. I have an "Ozito" which apart from having ridiculously short leads works surprisingly well. It has a fan as well which may improve the duty cycle a little? For intermittent welding with smaller rods, it rarely cuts out and it is plenty good enough for the non-critical work I do around the home.

The problem with teaching yourself is you invariably "practice" on rusty broken bits at awkward angles on a cold and dirty concrete floor. The first thing that happens at TAFE is you get directed to this nicely built booth with a massive welder that has "low settings" that are as high as the maximum for your poor little home brand welder. They have a welding table set up at the right height and present you with a new clean chunk of 10mm plate, with a carbon content conjusive to easy welding and a box of rods, and off you go, trying to make your beads as neat as the guy that demonstrates it.

I recommend a TAFE course, because it is cheap (the consumables you use are worth more than the course fee), I found the instructors were happy to "massage" the curriculum to suit your requirement (when they realised I had no interest in the actual qualification, they were happy let me make my own "Rusty gate repair 101" course. I simply turned up one night a week until I got sick of it, and randomly welded bits of steel together, presented them to my instructor who would tut-tut, and then proceed to lay a perfect demonstration bead and show me up. I could have easily gotten carried away and progressed onto more advanced stuff, but I could see too many applications of me doing overhead pipe welding with my little Ozito!

MMAW is what you want (Manual metal arc welding). In my town they have a beginner, intermediate and advanced course.

garfield
4th Dec 2007, 11:29 AM
I'm sorry I just mean a welder.... I thought for some reason mig as I was typing the reply. I just need a welder to do a job suitable to the pics I attached. sorry for the confusion :-

BobL
4th Dec 2007, 05:50 PM
. . .
The problem with teaching yourself is you invariably "practice" on rusty broken bits at awkward angles on a cold and dirty concrete floor. The first thing that happens at TAFE is you get directed to this nicely built booth with a massive welder that has "low settings" that are as high as the maximum for your poor little home brand welder. They have a welding table set up at the right height and present you with a new clean chunk of 10mm plate, with a carbon content conjusive to easy welding and a box of rods, and off you go, trying to make your beads as neat as the guy that demonstrates it.

Swings and roundabouts, it's all very well learning on such nice gear but then you eventually have to face the reality of "rusty broken bits at awkward angles on a cold and dirty concrete floor". It would be useful for a home handiman to be shown how to weld on the cheapies as well as the RR welders - it's like they should have both welders on hand to experience.

I also recommend a TAFE course. I did 3 (?) terms of night school TAFE courses 30 years ago and made some car ramps, a BBQ, Car jack/stands, a fireplace hearth and tool rack. Still have the car ramps somewhere.

Cheers

garfield
4th Dec 2007, 07:20 PM
So there's no chance i can teach myself to weld small jobs..??

I brought the GMC arc welder this afternoon and was all ready to go practice on some scrap.... Do you need a special surface to weld on? is it possible i can use my laminated bench top to weld on? or do i need to weld on concrete?

I'll bet when you experienced guys read what i just posted you'll be doing these ones :doh:.... sorry guys but i don't know if its a silly Question or not. My common sense tells me that welding on a wooden surface just doesn't ad up, but I'm asking you guys in the know

cheers
Geoff

DJ’s Timber
4th Dec 2007, 07:58 PM
You can weld on a wooden bench, but be prepared for the timber to smolder and end up with burnt spatter holes all over it, not to mention all the smoke from the smoldering top as well.

You don't need a special surface to weld on at all, grab a concrete paver and set that on your bench or rig up a couple of steel bars on some workhorses.

I have welded in all kinds of conditions, on bare dirt and even grassed areas with a bit of fire dosing afterwards :doh:.

rpepper
4th Dec 2007, 08:08 PM
You can teach yourself, if you get some really good information — from books, the WWW, a mate — but if the information is dodgy, you'll be led up the garden path, barking up the wrong tree.
I did a TAFE course in 2002. I couldn't have done without it. Maybe others can, but I think this saves a lot of time making mistakes (which we call experience).
Even one term with a good teacher who sympathetically helps you overcome the common mistakes we all make, can make a world of difference.
I nearly gave up after week 3, for all sorts of reasons, but it's worth persisting.
And, it doesn't matter if you never, ever want full penetration, x-ray quality. Learn to do it well, then you know what the standards are. There are plenty of household/farm/hobby projects where welds are less critical. It's also nice to know when you weld a line of seagull poop why it turned out that way:U

BobL
4th Dec 2007, 08:11 PM
RE: .... sorry guys but i don't know if its a silly Question or not.
It's not a silly question:

yes you can teach yourself but it may take you a long time to get anywhere. Just a few minutes with someone who know what they are doing can save a lot of time.

RE: Bench
My metal work bench has a 40 mm thick Jarrah top and a 4" metalworking vice. When welding I usually place a piece of 3 mm x 450 mm square steel plate on top of the bench. If I'm welding small stuff in the vice I don't bother with the steel plate - I keep a squirter bottle of water handy to spray on anything smokey. I can really recommend using a vice to hold stuff.

garfield
4th Dec 2007, 09:18 PM
OK, thanks for the help regarding the bench.

I just tried to have a little muck around with the new GMC arc welder. I read the instructions, put on my elbow high welding gloves, set the current for a 2.5 electrode. I grabbed a piece of clean galvanized steel i had sitting in my shed, i attached the return cable clamp on the piece of metal and then put in the electrode, turned on the machine and read that i should i should strike the electrode against the metal like i was trying to light a match..... i did all that and got nothing :no:

its been raining here this afternoon and i had the electrode in my shed on the bench, it didn't get wet but could it be too damp to star?

DJ’s Timber
4th Dec 2007, 09:28 PM
Did you put the bare end of the electrode in the holder?

garfield
4th Dec 2007, 10:18 PM
:Uyeah.... i may have had some of the electrode in there as well..... would that affect it?

BobL
4th Dec 2007, 11:26 PM
:Uyeah.... i may have had some of the electrode in there as well..... would that affect it?

You want a bare metal end connection in the electrode clamp. None of the flux around the electrode should be inside the clamp. Then try very briefly touching the electrode on the earth clamp to make sure the electrode is making a good connection. Then try a bit of steel.

I wouldn't start with galvanized steel the zinc coating is a PITA to weld thru, Grind it off or use naked steel.

garfield
5th Dec 2007, 06:46 AM
You want a bare metal end connection in the electrode clamp. None of the flux around the electrode should be inside the clamp. Then try very briefly touching the electrode on the earth clamp to make sure the electrode is making a good connection. Then try a bit of steel.

I wouldn't start with galvanized steel the zinc coating is a PITA to weld thru, Grind it off or use naked steel.

so i can touch the clamp with the electrode?

Grahame Collins
5th Dec 2007, 07:24 AM
So there's no chance i can teach myself to weld small jobs..??

Geoff

Of course you can. As mentioned by others the trick is to know what level you want to achieve-You will need to be able to identify the basic welding defects or faults and learn what to do to eliminate them.
Firstly I see from a later post that you are having difficulty in
striking the electrode.

Check for


Machine plugged in properly-sometimes plug is not pushed all of way in the the socket.

Machine switched on -I think that the GMC has a rocker type on /off switch-You should hear/feel it hum when turned on.

That the earth clamp is connected-on occasion it is necessary to wiggle the earth to make he connection properly-welders don't like earthing on material with a poor or dirty surface condition.

That the electrode bare wire connection is made inside the electrode holder.If using a screw up holder make sure the tongue firmly holds the bare electrode.

heres some links for reading
http://www.aussieweld.com.au/arcwelding/index.htm

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?p=173608#post173608

Do a bit of reading and maybe print out the good relevant bits and have them nearby in the shed.
Keep clocking in with questions and we will get you up to speed in no time.

Best of luck
Grahame

garfield
5th Dec 2007, 09:52 AM
Of course you can. As mentioned by others the trick is to know what level you want to achieve-You will need to be able to identify the basic welding defects or faults and learn what to do to eliminate them.
Firstly I see from a later post that you are having difficulty in
striking the electrode.

Check for

Machine plugged in properly-sometimes plug is not pushed all of way in the the socket.
Machine switched on -I think that the GMC has a rocker type on /off switch-You should hear/feel it hum when turned on.
That the earth clamp is connected-on occasion it is necessary to wiggle the earth to make he connection properly-welders don't like earthing on material with a poor or dirty surface condition.
That the electrode bare wire connection is made inside the electrode holder.If using a screw up holder make sure the tongue firmly holds the bare electrode.heres some links for reading
http://www.aussieweld.com.au/arcwelding/index.htm

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?p=173608#post173608

Do a bit of reading and maybe print out the good relevant bits and have them nearby in the shed.
Keep clocking in with questions and we will get you up to speed in no time.

Best of luck
Grahame


Thanks

garfield
5th Dec 2007, 08:45 PM
Well I had my first go at using the welder today. My brother works with a guy who is a gun welder who i lined up for a little tutoring and some advice which he was full of and happy to pass on, and to help me out. He gave me a few tips on the electrodes i purchased with my machine (well actually my wife purchased them for me on the advice of the bunnies guy) which are 2.5mm pink Ferrocraft 12xp general purpose electrode. he said to get another brand (the name escapes me at the moment) a 2.5 mm low hydrant or something like that - general purpose electrode.... i remember that the sticks he had were blue, he said that they'd weld anything really good and that the ones i had weren't all that crash hot.

i tell you what though, it sure isn't as easy as it looks that bloody welding, i take my hat off to guys who can do it, and are the kind of guys the others wanna be like. After about 20 - 30 mins of mucking around with the scrap (i got better in patches) i talked to him about welding some more and we got on to MIG's and he explained to me a few things about them, then showed me his MIG welder.... that is the sh@t!!!!! he gave me a go on the MIG, and I'm here to tell you I'm sold on it. That thing is a lot easier to use and seems as though its alot more forgiving to the armature than the arc welder. Still I'm happy with the type of work I'll get done with mine when i practice and learn some more...... a MIG for me in five years or so maybe:U

i left there with more knowledge than i walked in with, and about 30 Min's experience which was good, coz before today I was actually scared just to turn it on at first, so i gained some knowledge and some confidence, which I'm glad for.

I brought home some scrap metal to keep practicing for a while, and did so trying both a hand full of blue electrodes that Robbie gave me and the pink ones my wife had suggested to her by the guy at Bunnies. while i was welding (more so with the pink ones) the electrodes would often just get stuck to the metal i was welding and in one instance it wouldn't come off and actually burnt out while still attached the th project i was doing.... what would cause that? actually it was basically just the pink Ferrocraft ones that were doing it.

I';m baffled as to what was causing it to stick so much, and i noticed that the Ferrocraft rods needed to be further away from the metal and sort of positioned different to wet a a good bead.

Thanks
Geoff

garfield
8th Dec 2007, 08:13 PM
Can someone pleeeeeaaaassssseeeee tell me why the rod keeps sticking to the metal while I'm trying to weld please. obviously its something I'm doing wrong, but i don't know what.

pipeclay
8th Dec 2007, 08:54 PM
Im no expert by any means,one thing to look at is the tip of your rod that you are stiking the arc with,if the flux is not covering the length of the rod you will find it very hard to strike an arc an will probably stick,you could try upping the amps a little to see if it will arc,you may find you will blow holes though depending on your material thickness,(dont disscard the rod if you still have more than 50% of it left,with practice you will still be able to use them.(graham would explain this better than me).
In regards to your rod sticking to your job and burning out I'd say technique,maybe amps to low or your holding the rod to close to the job,If it does it again try and remove the rod from your handpiece,its not real good for the welder.

BobL
8th Dec 2007, 10:31 PM
I agree with pipeclay. Also have you got clean bare metal ?

garfield
9th Dec 2007, 06:59 AM
Yeah its a clean surface

BobL
9th Dec 2007, 11:17 AM
Yeah its a clean surface

Don't be discouraged by the rod getting stuck. This is normal for newbies and even less newbies if they have been out of practice for a while.

Here is how the TAFE demonstrator back in 1976 showed me how to learn how to strike an arc. Using 3 mm plate to practice on, turn the amps up about 10-15A above what is recommended for the rod you are using. The arc should strike easily like a big match. Then turn the amps down 2 - 3 amps at a time, and try starting the arc, till you reach a current where it starts to consistently catch the rod. Turn it back up 2-3 amps from there and practice starting the arc at that current. The demonstrator said we had to strike 20 arcs in a row without catching before we moved down in current. When you got the hang of it, drop it down some more, practice starting, do this until you reach the right current.

I remember it took me several hours of mucking about to be able to consistently strike an arc. Some people get the hang right away others take longer. I was really off because this young woman doing the same class got it first time! Sometimes I have gone years without using a welder and when I get back to it I have to up the amps a bit till I get my strike back again.

SPIRIT
9th Dec 2007, 11:36 AM
when starting a new rod l run it over some scrap metal this will heat the rod up then l move to the job
If you already lost the flux from the end of the rod you can keep running it over the scrap until you get down to the the flux ,dont do it to slow or it will stick again

Metal Head
9th Dec 2007, 11:58 AM
Hi Garfield,

Why don't you go and buy youreld a DVD/Video on how to arc weld? A picture is worth a 1000 words - especially a moving one:wink:. Here is a site for a start.

http://smartflix.com/store/video/11/Steve-Bleiles-Arc-Welding-Series

It appears to me - and don't take this the wrong way - but if you were given some tuition from a "top welder" why are you still asking all these questions? Its sounds to me that you don't have any confidence and you are not willing to give it a go and practice - practice makes perfect. It's no good seeking advice off everyone because its different strokes for different folks. You only have to look at all the professional golfers to notice they don't all have exactly the same swing? No, they don't yet they generally all get around the course within 10 strokes of one another:). So I would suggest get a DVD (or lesser so a book) and follow the instructions. You could also try googling the subject matter and see what you can get for nothing. EBay is usually a good source of getting DVD's on certain subject matter.

MH

garfield
10th Dec 2007, 08:41 AM
It appears to me - and don't take this the wrong way - but if you were given some tuition from a "top welder" why are you still asking all these questions?

MH

I've only had one lesson off him, and I don't have access to him all the time and I like everyone's advice. People do things different to everybody else, and I think if you try them all you usually find one that suits you :U

P.S I want to have a go at welding this thin stuff, so should I buy some thin rods to give it a go?

Thanks

garfield
10th Dec 2007, 09:19 PM
Well I tried to weld some tent poles today for my camp kitchen. I sort of got some ok, but it's bloody blotchy. I'm finding that my rods don't arc all that well. I turned down the amps to the 1.6 amps mark, but found it wasn't arcing so well so I turned it up to the 2 amps mark, it got a bit better it would arc ok and then some times really good but it also seemed to stick a lot. Is it maybe the amps are down too low - or could it be my rods?

DJ’s Timber
10th Dec 2007, 09:57 PM
You might be holding the rods to close to the steel, the rods must have an arc, which is created by having a gap between the rod and the steel. If the rod is too close, the arc is lost and the rod then fuses to the steel, which is the problem your having with the rods sticking.

Aim for a 2 to 4mm gap between the rod and the steel, if your getting blowouts decrease the gap or lower the amps. If sticking or dragging increase the gap or increase the amps.

garfield
10th Dec 2007, 11:12 PM
Sometimes it gets stuck when I'm trying to arc the rod too.... maybe I'm a bit slow with my arcing. Is it a major NO, NO to hit the earth clamp to try and get the arc started? a few times I hit the clamp to get an arc going and now my clamp looks like it's got the chicken pox:doh:

Should I persist with 2.5mm rods for this thin stuff - or should I go the 1.6mm? Will it make much difference..?? I did actually get a good weld on .1% of my work:U It's a bloody expensive lesson though. I did blow a couple of holes, but found that when I did that that the arc was quite good and it was really red which kept the arc going enough for me to patch up what I'd blown through.

One more thing - If I have a couple of really annoying looking blotchy welds, do I just grind them and then try and weld them better?

pipeclay
11th Dec 2007, 01:56 AM
Ive asked before where abouts in sydney are you,if time permits and your interested I may be able to help.

garfield
11th Dec 2007, 06:47 AM
Ive asked before where abouts in sydney are you,if time permits and your interested I may be able to help.

Sorry pipeclay, I mustn't have seen your reply. I'm in western sydney.... Blacktown way

garfield
11th Dec 2007, 06:49 AM
Can you not weld over slag? If you have just welded something is it important to knock the slag off before welding next to it?

And how important is it to wire brush it?

Grahame Collins
11th Dec 2007, 06:56 AM
Is it a major NO, NO to hit the earth clamp to try and get the arc started? a few times I hit the clamp to get an arc going and now my clamp looks like it's got the chicken pox:doh:


Hi Garfield.
Lets put it this way. Apart from the visual aspect of the clamp you are overheating the spring in the a clamp and reducing the tension of the grip. This affects the flow of electricity in the circuit which in turn affects your weld.Spatters from the arc get under the clamp reducing the area contact and welding gets even worse.
Clean up the clamp and the contact area under it- to start with.

If you are still welding on tent poles,they can be as thin as paper and one of the most difficult things to weld anyway. Get some 50 x5 or 6 mm thick flat 70 to 100 long and run parallel beads.

As the other fellows suggest I would be perfecting my welds.You have several hours of practice ahead of you. From assistance of your gun welder ,you should already have a visual idea of what you are trying to achieve.

The striking block of scrap is the way to go.
To help what the gun probably showed you.
A good bead should be even height ,even width and have a consistent ripple that looks like a crescent.If the pattern is arrow shaped -you are traveling too fast. Consistency is the name of the game here.Slag inclusions and holes generally indicate too long an arc.

Don't fixate on the specific numerical arc setting.It will vary with grid load through out the day.What goes into the machine at the plug, affects what you will get out of it. Ignore the numbers and work out what you need, to be hotter or colder or stay the same. As the metal overheats you will need to reduce amps slightly.

Get SAVAGE

Speed -Speed of travel
Angle -Determines depth of penetration into the metal
Volts - Arc length determines volts and heat value into the weld pool- About that of the core wire
Amps-The amp setting to suit the electrode diameter.
Gauge -The electrode diameter in metric measure to suit your plate thickness
Electrode-The correct type of electrode for the work 6012 0r 6013

Work backwards from Electrode end of the anagram.
The above are the basics required to achieve a reasonable weld.You won't get there p***ing around on ultra thin materials to learn upon. I have taught hundreds of people to weld and they all take between -4 to 8hrs to get up to speed on a a piece of reasonably thick plate -say 6mm to start. To do otherwise will waste your time and effort.
Perfect your technique first, OK?

Keep practicing

Grahame

garfield
11th Dec 2007, 08:04 AM
The striking block of scrap is the way to go.

Get SAVAGE

Speed -Speed of travel
Angle -Determines depth of penetration into the metal
Volts - Arc length determines volts and heat value into the weld pool- About that of the core wire
Amps-The amp setting to suit the diameter
Gauge -The electrode diameter in metric measure to suit your plate thickness
Electrode-The correct type of electrode for the work 6012 0r 6013

Grahame

Thanks Grahame. Does the striking plate need to be earthed?

Also, do you think it would make that much difference if i used a thinner rod.... say a 1.6mm rod as against the 2.5 i'm using now?

Grahame Collins
11th Dec 2007, 08:25 AM
Hi Garfield,
The striking plate must be earthed otherwise you could not make an arc strike on it.

It can be just a bit of scrap clamped between the table /work surface or a dedicated plate tacked on a bit of round with a little 50 x50 x 6 plate tacked on a bit of 10mm round (kinda like a 1 legged table.)
This is assuming you have a steel table top-otherwise clamp the throw away plate directly to the work.

Using strike plate gets the electrode up and running .One strikes the electrode and gets its running stable for a second or two and then jumps across while its still red hot.

The end of the electrode is maintained in the gun barrel shape shape necessary to start the arc. If the electrode cover flux is chipped away thats where the problems come from sticking on a cold start.
Forget the smaller rods until you get good results from your 2.5mm rods.Otherwise you are all over the place settings wise and its consistency in all the aspects of the welding process, one is aiming for.

Time for work
Grahame

garfield
11th Dec 2007, 08:31 AM
Thanks Grahame....

One more thing mate, how important is it to chip off the slag? will it be a defect weld if i was to re-weld over a bead that hasn't had the slag chipped off? and what about the wire brush... is that necessary?

DJ’s Timber
11th Dec 2007, 09:49 AM
You MUST clean off all slag, if you leave it and run another bead next to it or over it, you will end up with, in your words "bloody blotchy"

pipeclay
11th Dec 2007, 10:14 AM
Garfield im at erskine park,i have a bit of free time during the day would you be interested in me having a look and giving a bit of my limited experience.

Grahame Collins
11th Dec 2007, 01:53 PM
how important is it to chip off the slag?
will it be a defect weld if i was to re-weld over a bead that hasn't had the slag chipped off?
and what about the wire brush
... is that necessary?



Slag not chipped can form a slag hole in the next run
A slag hole( inclusion ) is a defect in that it weakens the weld.
Along with the chipping hammer ,important to clean up the weld bead and present it properly-honestly grinding up a weld bead its a statement that the operator can't be bothered to learn the skill properly or they are ashamed of their work.

Grahame

garfield
11th Dec 2007, 03:48 PM
Garfield im at erskine park,i have a bit of free time during the day would you be interested in me having a look and giving a bit of my limited experience.

sounds good to me pipeclay... you may regret trying to help the worlds worst learner :doh:

garfield
11th Dec 2007, 04:55 PM
I'm convinced I should just give up!!!!! I've spent 2 days non stop welding, and I still haven't got it.

Surely the migs sh@t all over stick welders...?? I'm sure everyone prefers the mig, even the pros.

Grahame Collins
11th Dec 2007, 06:36 PM
I'm convinced I should just give up!!!!! I've spent 2 days non stop welding, and I still haven't got it.
Surely the migs sh@t all over stick welders...?? I'm sure everyone prefers the mig, even the pros.

I believe that this is the crux your problem.You need to practice a bit then stop and reflect upon what you have done.
Keeping at it when things are turning to ????? only reinforces your sense of frustration,annoyance and gives you the urge to bail out.

Besides that a few here have made the effort to help you.I believe at least, you owe it to them to keep at it for a while yet!

Take a break and take up Pipeclays offer who can take a fresh look at your problems.A penny to a pound it just
some thing simple and basic that was overlooked.

As far as the Mig goes it is an assumption that it is better than a stick welder.
It is like saying that the shifter spanner in your tool box is way better than the socket spanner.While they are made to do a similiar job the application of one to another is way different.

If the mig is way better then,why don't pro welders drag them up the side uf buildings?The answer is of course is that the application is not suitable for the machine.

Some in this forum may make that mistake.To get the best from the machine one needs to understand the machine.

My own students head for the mig machine in preference to the stick. The machine is not automatic or imbued with a computer brain that will do the thinking or set up for them, but there is this belief that mig is way better.

That idea collapses in a substantial heap about the time they discover I have changed all the settings back to zero and THOUGHT and UNDERSTANDING needs to be applied to set the machine.

The knowledge from the theory of process and operation is a necessary part of learning to weld using stick or mig.

Chill out and take a break and do a bit of reading.


Grahame

China
11th Dec 2007, 08:42 PM
garfield also remember one thing if it only took two days to produce perfect welds there would be no need to have a four year apprenticeship, nobody can master anything in two days, as said above take it slowly and will come to you

garfield
11th Dec 2007, 10:04 PM
Its extremely frustrating:C Just when I think I've getting the hang of it, It quickly lets me know that I haven't. A few times there I thought I had done a good bead, but then when i chipped away the slag it had holes and was only stuck to one side of the two pieces. I did manage to have some pieces stick, but the weld looks bloody terrible.... I grinded most of it flat-ish and re-welded them.

I will say though Grahame that having a striking plate made a difference... It didn't end up sticking to my job as much and the job didn't look like it had the mumps.

When I did get a good arc, it was hard to get a good bead going with out it blowing holes in it.... If I get some 1.6mm rods and give them a go will that make any difference? Is it even possible to weld a tent pole with a stick welder?

BobL
12th Dec 2007, 12:40 AM
Thanks Grahame....
One more thing mate, how important is it to chip off the slag?
Very.


will it be a defect weld if i was to re-weld over a bead that hasn't had the slag chipped off?
Yep!


and what about the wire brush... is that necessary?
Yep, that helps cleans the various slags and oxides and loose bits of the old weld. You have to apply a fair bit of elbow grease - the weld surface should be a dull shine.

If the weld is really bad and pock marked you are probably best grinding the whole weld off and starting again.

pipeclay
12th Dec 2007, 02:08 AM
Garfield send me a Pm and we can see what we can arrange,Im free most days thru the day for acouple of hours till the 23rd.

garfield
12th Dec 2007, 07:32 AM
Garfield send me a Pm and we can see what we can arrange,Im free most days thru the day for acouple of hours till the 23rd.

Ok great...

garfield
12th Dec 2007, 07:34 AM
I really need an answer to this question guys....

When I did get a good arc, it was hard to get a good bead going with out it blowing holes in it.... If I get some 1.6mm rods and give them a go will that make any difference? Is it even possible to weld a tent pole with a stick welder, am i wasting my time?

Grahame Collins
12th Dec 2007, 09:02 AM
If I get some 1.6mm rods and give them a go will that make any difference?

It sounds like you are still trying to weld the tent pole.
It is difficult to get an idea of what thickness you are welding on at the moment.Once we know that, your question can be answered much better. 1.6 mm diam rods won't help if you welding on foil paper thickness


Is it even possible to weld a tent pole with a stick welder, am i wasting my time?

YES
If its a thinned walled commercially available jobbie, more than likely ,you are.

You have not given any dimensions or other information that would help clarify the job. Diameter or H x W and wall thickness and surface coating for example.

Grahame

garfield
12th Dec 2007, 01:38 PM
Sorry:-.... the wall is exactly 1mm thick

Grahame Collins
12th Dec 2007, 05:17 PM
Garfield ,
To weld 1mm thickness with a choke /transformer type stick welder is pushing he envelope hard even for an experienced welder.
You are wasting your time trying to do so.It might work with 1.6mm rods using an inverter welding machine .Note ,that is for an experienced welder.
Attempting to learn on 1mm thick sheet is not the way it should be done.

3mm is the minimum sheet thickness I would recommend for a beginner to practice stick on. Get a piece big enough ,say 150 x 100 x 3 which will allow the sheet to dissipate heat quicker and make the possibilities of burn throughs a lot less. Chip the flux of between passes and there you have it.

I predict much better results for you this time around.
We can sort the tent pole out later,first things first.

Cheers
Grahame

garfield
12th Dec 2007, 05:58 PM
150 x 100 x 3 which will allow the sheet to dissipate heat quicker and make the possibilities of burn throughs a lot less. Chip the flux of between passes and there you have it.


Is it possible to squirt water between little beads to cool it down before the next bead so that it cools down and don't get so hit and burn holes?

I'm sorry if this is a ridiculous question.

Grahame Collins
12th Dec 2007, 06:33 PM
There certainly no reason I can think of not to cool it down between runs.Water would certainly be a quick way. Why not have a bucket and just dip it in ?.

I do not think you will be getting burn throughs on 3mm sheet with 2.6 rods with the appropriate amp setting
Do 4 or 5 beads and dip and re start the sequence again.

Grahame

BobL
12th Dec 2007, 09:06 PM
Is it possible to squirt water between little beads to cool it down before the next bead so that it cools down and don't get so hit and burn holes?

I'm sorry if this is a ridiculous question.

This is not the way to weld 1 mm thin wall tubing with an arc. The way to do it is practice for a couple of weeks on 3 mm plate, then 2.5, then 2, then 1.6, then 1.2 then 1 mm. After 20 years intermittent farting around I can sort of do 1.6 mm with an arc but 1.2 or less I take to BILs MIG.

Cheers

garfield
12th Dec 2007, 09:53 PM
I brought some 1.6mm rods today, searched everywhere for them though, even had a couple of places say to me that they are like hens teeth now with so many people using migs for thin stuff.

Anyhow I found a place by accident at Penrith - which is in Sydney's west and they had heaps of them, so I brought a box for $20.

Now after the "pick your bottom lip up" chip at me from Grahame:) I decided to rip in some more today. I've gotta say that I got ab it carried away at first with the 1.6mm rods, thinking that I could just go hard and they wouldn't blow a hole..... WRONG!! I soon sorted that out and started to take my time a little More than I did before. I started out doing a short-ish bead then chip the slag, wire brush then spray some water which really didn't make too much difference - in that I could still only do the same length before having to stop trying not to blow a hole.

Then I started to work out that I was more so blowing holes in the open end of the pole rather than the full piece because I was trying to get a good bead in there, but because there is a thin gap between the pieces to be welded and It was just blowing the end out and once that starts the rest just crumbles and follows.

I started to do little spots, but made sure it was good spots (as I've got better over three straight days) either side, chipped the slag then wire brushed, then continued up the gap. Once I had either side done I slowly did the same to fill the small gap with the rod, once again chipped the slag and wire brushed. I found once I had that gap filled I could concentrate more on getting a real good bead in there.... the 1.6mm rods made a difference in allowing me to do that for sure.

The welds that I have done seem alot stronger than they did yesterday. Does that sound OK? Is that how you would attack and fill a gap with a good bead?

They're not real good, but I've taken a couple of snaps. I'll take some better ones tomorrow and post them.


62290
62291
62292

Grahame Collins
12th Dec 2007, 11:50 PM
Ok garfield,
I can now see what you are trying to achieve. I had previously thought you where trying to butt weld the cut ends of the tube together as per an end to end joint.

Again I would say ,get your technique perfected on the thicker plate .Once you can run a decent bead on that ,your chances of adhering one bit of tube to its adjacent component shall be greatly increased.Otherwise you won't know if it is you or the difficulty of the joint causing the failures.

The problem is now really obvious. The moment that the arc picks up that cut edge -poof! it burns the cut edge away.
The zinc coat ,reacts to the arc, flares up and causes part of the burn through problem. First of all file the zinc coating off the tube around where it is to be welded..
Note I said file , NOT grind it, otherwise you shall lose wall thickness.

Take the cut edge and hammer the cut end to a flat edge meeting in the centerline of the tube. That shall double your thickness and give you at least a fighting chance.

Next you need to reduce the exposure of the cut side to the arc. Laying the electrode nearly horizontal to the cut tube and with the arc end pointed at the uncut side -tack
( really quick like 1 second,2 seconds -stop!) each end of the flat.Chip the flux off the tack welds and brush.

Keeping the electrode angle nearly flat to the cut tube, say 10 degrees weld along the join.

Grahame

garfield
13th Dec 2007, 08:39 AM
I did flatten the ends of the pipe to be attached, but I didn't completely flatten them..... So it would be better to completely flatten them?

I sanded the edges and also where the pipe attached to the other pipe.... not grinded :U

yogie
13th Dec 2007, 11:22 AM
I'm convinced I should just give up!!!!! I've spent 2 days non stop welding, and I still haven't got it.

Surely the migs sh@t all over stick welders...?? I'm sure everyone prefers the mig, even the pros.

Hi garfeild, I've been using the best and worst migs for year, but I had do a job on site and after finally finding arc welder and scrapping a foot of dust off it, I loved it, felt like a real welder for change, stick with it, get some 3mm or 5mm plate, crank up the arc and go for it, as you get the jist of it, drop your amps and increase your angle of the rod, it'll come to you sooner not later. great thread, I dont respond much to these, are far better qualified welders here than I am but hang in there. :2tsup:

garfield
13th Dec 2007, 05:16 PM
Hi garfeild, I've been using the best and worst migs for year, but I had do a job on site and after finally finding arc welder and scrapping a foot of dust off it, I loved it, felt like a real welder for change, stick with it, get some 3mm or 5mm plate, crank up the arc and go for it, as you get the jist of it, drop your amps and increase your angle of the rod, it'll come to you sooner not later. great thread, I dont respond much to these, are far better qualified welders here than I am but hang in there. :2tsup:

Thanks Yogie

Grahame Collins
13th Dec 2007, 09:18 PM
So it would be better to completely flatten them?
Yep! Flat parallel edges.

The tube end after flattening should look a bit like a chisel point with square ends.Tack up with no gaps.

Keep your arc as short as possible.It is better to put the amps up if needed to run the arc -and keep your arc very short .
A longer arc increases voltage ( which is heat in arc terms ) which of course you don't need.
By now there must be a marked improvement since you have started.

Grahame

garfield
13th Dec 2007, 10:50 PM
By now there must be a marked improvement since you have started.
Grahame

So they'll be just as strong welded that way..??

And yeah I have improved with yours and the others help Grahame..... Its much appreciated too.

Thanks boys :2tsup:

garfield
14th Dec 2007, 03:37 PM
I've had it!! I'm taking it to my Uncle who has a mig and he is a welder by trade..... It's a fair drive, but I had enough of the holes it's blowing in the poles.

If you guys out there needed to weld something with a 1mm wall, would you persevere with it - or would you just use a mates - or wahatever way you could get to one - use a mig for the job?

Grahame Collins
14th Dec 2007, 04:53 PM
Ahem! Cough! Cough! Cough!

Well you can't say, that we did not try to tell you that welding 1mm with stick was very difficult and was not for learners.

While I don't know what sort of mig your uncle has of course but my gut feeling is there won't be a marked improvement on what you already have.

Setting up a mig for welding for welding this thin material may involve a smaller wire diameter than your uncle already has, different size contact tips for the new wire diameter a different liner, different set of drive rolls to suit the wire, and a different shielding gas to suit the material thickness. Ang this is assuming your uncle has experience with 1 mm thickness material.

For that potential outlay possibly $150 or better you can get a good amount of brazing done or maybe buy a smll cylinder and burner for under that figure. Maybe you could be lucky and uncle may have the required goodies to go.

Oxy welding or brazing or even tig is the way to to go there.What ever you are doing 1mm thick material is not the ideal thickness to learn your welding skills on.

If you have LPG , I am fairly you sure could use it to braze with although I have not done it myself.
There will be others who can advise you from here I am sure.

Grahame,

garfield
14th Dec 2007, 11:23 PM
NOPE!!! you're spot on Grahame. Got to my uncles place, he took one look at what I wanted welded and told me I'm nuts (and a couple other expletives) and that I should go with something thicker. He's a fitter and turner, but is retired and been out of the game for a while. He said the worst thing was not only just how thin the wall was, but also that it was Galvanized!

He tried to do it for me with both his MIG and his inverter stick welder and cursed me the whole time!! He went on about how if it were steel (even the same thickness) that he'd be half a chance. He did weld it, but was upset with the hoes and stuff - coz he's a perfectionist welder.

I'm going to Bunnings tomorrow and I'm buying some 3mm wall square tube and I'm making myself some legs out of that. Alot of you out there probably can't see what the fuss is about with these legs I wanna make, but I'm a bit of a perfectionist and if I make something I want it to not only look good, but also it has to look as if I'd paid for it. I've spent a fair bit of money on just making the carcase and the knick - knacks and the like, and I don't want a leg system that 1 don't work that great and 2 that doesn't stand the test of time, and 3 that doesn't look good - or fold away and make it compact and a space saver.

the best way to get across what I'm trying to achieve is to give you the link to the genius that I'm trying to copy. check it out, the bloke is a freak with his ideas i reckon. he's just a bit on the expensive side and that's why i wanted to make my own.

http://www.drifta.com.au/setDPOS.htm

pipeclay
15th Dec 2007, 03:10 AM
Garfield if you get the chance before you spend your money at bunnings go to edcon steel at blacktown Penny place just off the Great Western Highway and price your material there 20mm x 2mm shs should be suitable for what you are trying to achieve.
They will cut to size as ive said before but will discount the price for full lengths.
They will still charge a small cutting fee for cutting a length in half (around $1.50).
Should find you would nearly get a full length from them for the same cost of 1/2 a length from bunnings.
Your choice though but a hardware store is not the place to buy your steel from.

garfield
15th Dec 2007, 07:14 PM
Ok, I went down to Edcon steel (thanks pieclay) and brought some 25x25 2mm wall. What size rod would you use? 2.5 ok?

Grahame Collins
15th Dec 2007, 07:56 PM
Hi garfield
2.5 Dia should be OK.
If you cut it square and dress it so it butts up with no gap you should be fine.

The diagram below I did for some one else on the forum, but it will work just as well for you. Tack all the corners first OK!
Try to keep 2/3rds of your arc on the uncut side. keep the amps on the low side and the arc short.

We all all waiting to hear of the results with bated breath.


Grahame

garfield
15th Dec 2007, 11:03 PM
Ok thanks Grahame. Mate i'll be sure to post some pics when it's all done..... :U

garfield
19th Dec 2007, 08:09 AM
Does anyone know of any other metal places in the Blacktown - Minchinbury areas please? I tried Edcon for some 22mm steel pipe with a 2mm wall and a 19mm steel pipe 2mm wall to fit inside but they can't help. So I'm wondering if i'll have some luck smoewhere else.

Thanks guys

Fossil
19th Dec 2007, 09:57 AM
The best place for steel around our area is Sims at Dunheaved. They sell at wholesale rates to public. The only catch is that they are OH&S Natsies, and you have to bear that in mind when loading etc.

garfield
19th Dec 2007, 10:46 AM
Thanks for that. I also found another place too.... their called Orrcon at glendenning, they seem quite good on their prices too.

pipeclay
19th Dec 2007, 12:23 PM
Garfield you wont find anywhere that will have 22mmOD 2mm WT that 19mmOD will fit into ,you need to be smaller than 18mmOD.
Your only option if these are the sizes you require is to turn the OD of the 19mm to suit the ID of the 22mm.

Fossil
19th Dec 2007, 01:29 PM
Mabey it is available.

I have purchased similar sizes before for a table saw trunnion that I built a few years back.. It will cost you a packet though. $$$$

There is a place near Blacktown that will have it. You will need to ask for internally ground bore tube. I can't remember the name of the shop, but here are some directions.

Going nominally west down Sunnyholt towards Parkleah from Blacktown, you turn left at the + intersection before heading up the hill. Continue down about 1km and turn right at the servo. The steel place is 50m up there on the RH corner.

pipeclay
19th Dec 2007, 02:28 PM
Just curious fossil if you can get the sizes of tube that Garfield requires im amazed that they slip inside each other without the aid of a 250 plus tonne power press.

Grahame Collins
19th Dec 2007, 02:29 PM
Garfield,
Does this help in seeking dimensions for for
Pipe nominal bore
Tube OD Outside dimension


http://www.austubemills.com/documents/general/ATM2PAGMay2007.pdf

Grahame

Fossil
19th Dec 2007, 05:01 PM
Just curious fossil if you can get the sizes of tube that Garfield requires im amazed that they slip inside each other without the aid of a 250 plus tonne power press.

I just miced an offcut of the stuff that I got a few years back. It is 1" ID, (not nominal bore). As I stated before it has been internally ground. I didn't use tube to go inside the 1" tube for the trunion setup, but used solid round bar of 25mm diameter, giving 0.4mm clearance. Once a nipple is fitted, and the setup greased, 12" of this setup gives a really nice strong hinge for the T.S. trunion.

You are 100% correct, in that any telescoping sizes in NB pipe will not fit, hence my suggestion to the O.P. to consider internally ground tube.

Fossil
20th Dec 2007, 12:08 PM
I just looked it up on whereis and the place I was refering to is on the corner of Turbo and Binney rd's at Kings park, between Blacktown and Marryong.

Good luck. :)

garfield
21st Dec 2007, 09:27 PM
sorry for the no reply, but my computer sh@t itself and I couldn't view for a couple of days.

Thanks guys....

garfield
22nd Dec 2007, 11:13 PM
Garfield,
Does this help in seeking dimensions for for
Pipe nominal bore
Tube OD Outside dimension


http://www.austubemills.com/documents/general/ATM2PAGMay2007.pdf

Grahame


Thanks Grahame, I really appraciate that link but I don't at all understand it...... So basically Its just impossible to get a pipe of around 22mm with a 1.6 - or 2mm wall and a 19mm pipe to fit inside??

pipeclay
23rd Dec 2007, 02:52 AM
Garfield you can try ERW tube you can get it in 22.2mmOD x 1.2 or 1.4 mmW/T,this will accomadate 19mm ERW tube.
Only problem is your W/T (the welding concern)
How far does the 19mmOD tube or pipe have to slide in side the larger diameter.
As said before may be easier to get some 19mmOD pipe and turn the OD of this (you can get 19mmOd in 3.2 W/T so taking a bit off the OD would not effect its rigidity.
Depending how long it may need to be turned could probably assist you with that.

garfield
23rd Dec 2007, 08:27 AM
Garfield you can try ERW tube you can get it in 22.2mmOD x 1.2 or 1.4 mmW/T,this will accommodate 19mm ERW tube.
Only problem is your W/T (the welding concern)
How far does the 19mmOD tube or pipe have to slide in side the larger diameter.
As said before may be easier to get some 19mmOD pipe and turn the OD of this (you can get 19mmOd in 3.2 W/T so taking a bit off the OD would not effect its rigidity.
Depending how long it may need to be turned could probably assist you with that.


Pipeclay, what does ERW stand for?

I need the pipe to go inside about 300mm deep

Also when you say that the OD could be turned, do you mean that it would need to be lathed or something?

Grahame Collins
23rd Dec 2007, 09:05 AM
what does ERW stand for?

Electrical Resistance Welded

Here's a link that explains it.

http://www.twi.co.uk/j32k/unprotected/band_1/tfhighfr.html

Grahame

pipeclay
23rd Dec 2007, 02:46 PM
Garfield yes you would have to turn the OD of your inner tube or pipe to suit the ID of your outer,a 300mm section would not be a problem if you require a few done.

pipeclay
23rd Dec 2007, 03:46 PM
Garfield an other alternative if your prepared to adjust your sizes slightly would be to use 22mmOD x 2mm WT and have 19mmOD 3.2 or 2.6 WT for your inner.
Keeps your sizes somewhere near what you wanted,you would still have to turn the 19mmOD but you wouldnt comprimise your WT.
Let me know if your interested in any of the options,i dont mind turning them.

Fossil
23rd Dec 2007, 04:32 PM
There are a few options if you go the ERW route. You will end up with 1mm slop as a minimum for most combinations though.

Here is the Blackwoods list for ERW in those sizes.

http://www2.blackwoods.com.au/infoBANKProduct.aspx?SG=2000165&S=29&G=2004564&P=2027098

garfield
24th Dec 2007, 12:51 AM
Wow! I tell ya this welding and metal stuff sure is technical!!!

Thanks for explaining that Grahame

Thanks for your offer Pipeclay, and maybe when I get back from my holiday I'll take you up on it.

And thanks for the link fossil.

garfield
6th Jan 2008, 09:45 AM
G'day all,
No more silly Questions for you (at the moment:U) wanted to post this before I went away on Boxing day - but was so flat out and didn't get the time, got back yesterday and I'll do it now.

Just wanna say a massive thank you to everyone who gave me very vital and much needed advice on this thread.... but I'd especially like to thank Grahame for all the time you took reading and replying to the thread and Pieclay for his advice and his very kind offer to physically help with the job i was trying to get done.

Anyhow I did get it finished and here are a couple of pics of what I ended up building... the legs I welded got a touch up with the grinder but they did the job while I was away. I ended up with a 19mm Diameter 1.9mm wall pipe inserted into a 22mm Diameter 1.2mm wall Gal outer... It sure was hard to weld but I sort of got the hang of it after 2.5 full on weeks at it!

Thanks everyone:2tsup:

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/garfield071095/100_0694.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/garfield071095/100_0697-1.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/garfield071095/100_0701.jpg

Fossil
6th Jan 2008, 09:52 AM
Well done!

I hope you enjoyed your holiday. It makes for a much nicer experience when you have a base camp set up well. Especially when you have a large family like myself.

Where did you end up camping?

garfield
6th Jan 2008, 10:03 AM
Thank you Fosil.

I went to Bawley point. It's in between Ulladulla and Batemans Bay.... It was nice.

Fossil
6th Jan 2008, 11:16 AM
Been there a few times over the years. very nice indeed. A bit crowded at this time of year though from memory. I used to dive all over that area. Have to get back in to that soon I think. :)

Grahame Collins
6th Jan 2008, 11:29 AM
Hi garfield ,

A super bit of work.It looks great too! I take it one section folds into the other.

Its time to push the envelope.You can't go with a plastic kitchen sink forever.How about a nice s s/steel jobbie?.

Its only a BIT thinner than those darn leg tubes seeing how you enjoyed welding on the light stuff so much?.

Waddya reckon? LOL :2tsup::D

Grahame