PDA

View Full Version : Anvils?



Aerohydro
19th May 2007, 07:31 PM
What do all of you do for an anvil? I've been playing with a bit of light railway line but I ned something much more solid. I want to get into forging to try and make a few woodwork tools. Any ideas?

Thanks.

watson
19th May 2007, 08:16 PM
G'day,
I know that railway line is not the ideal, but I use a big chunk of it that makes my valves pop to lift it. I have it mounted on a yellow box stump that I cut to make the anvil sit at knuckle height. Took me two weeks to get the horn shaped, so that's what I use.

aussiecolector
19th May 2007, 08:27 PM
I've got an anvil. I also have a piece of H iron about 20" high and 15" long that isn't bad but not good enough for forging on.

forge
19th May 2007, 08:40 PM
G'day,
I know that railway line is not the ideal, but I use a big chunk of it that makes my valves pop to lift it. I have it mounted on a yellow box stump that I cut to make the anvil sit at knuckle height. Took me two weeks to get the horn shaped, so that's what I use.
Hey Watson, it's me again-(:D forge) .How did you form your railway anvil?I have 1big and 1 medium size commercially made ones, but i really miss my rail lane anvil Had an home made rail anvil i used a lot :( lent it to some one...you know the rest.I'm looking for more rail line as well as a way of making the horn on it.My old one even had an extra bit forge welded on the top so it looked like a miniature conventional anvil.(not happy ,Jan:(( )

watson
19th May 2007, 08:59 PM
G'day Forge,
To form the horn, I tried a gas axe....bad.........I eventually got a 100mm GMC angle grinder, took the guard off and mounted a 250mm cut off wheel on it ( it took ten of them to do the job).......I then held my breath, closed my eyes, and over 14 or so days, I took little slivers off it until I had the rough horn shape.
Using the same GMC 100mm grinder, I then used flap discs ( 5 of them) until the horn was as smooth as silk.
To get the hole in the top, ( having a senior moment.can't think of the correct name) I under cut the web of the rail with the same angle grinder system over another cupla days, and then gas axed a hole in the top, and shaped the hole using an air run die grinder. (took a while)
It works, and I love it.........wish I knew an easier way to do it.

Aerohydro
19th May 2007, 09:02 PM
I've found that using the railway line on end helps quite a lot. I think that with a bit of grinding a piece like this could be pretty useful, but still not a proper anvil.
Like this (http://anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor/jdrrtool/top_index.htm)

I'll look around for a heavy lump of steel, but that sort of thing is pretty scarce here (NSW north coast).

Pat
19th May 2007, 09:04 PM
Hardie hole :)

watson
19th May 2007, 09:11 PM
Thanks Pat,
I probably would have woke up at 3am with the answer...........but then again .....what was the question??? :doh: :doh:

forge
19th May 2007, 10:02 PM
G'day Forge,
To form the horn, I tried a gas axe....bad.........I eventually got a 100mm GMC angle grinder, took the guard off and mounted a 250mm cut off wheel on it ( it took ten of them to do the job).......I then held my breath, closed my eyes, and over 14 or so days, I took little slivers off it until I had the rough horn shape.
Using the same GMC 100mm grinder, I then used flap discs ( 5 of them) until the horn was as smooth as silk.
To get the hole in the top, ( having a senior moment.can't think of the correct name) I under cut the web of the rail with the same angle grinder system over another cupla days, and then gas axed a hole in the top, and shaped the hole using an air run die grinder. (took a while)
It works, and I love it.........wish I knew an easier way to do it.
I was afraid you are going to say the above(no such thing as a free lunch:p )
I will put it on my ever expanding list.Would you have a picture of your master piece?
Regards,

forge
19th May 2007, 10:04 PM
I've found that using the railway line on end helps quite a lot. I think that with a bit of grinding a piece like this could be pretty useful, but still not a proper anvil.
Like this (http://anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor/jdrrtool/top_index.htm)

I'll look around for a heavy lump of steel, but that sort of thing is pretty scarce here (NSW north coast).

Thanks for the great link
Regards,

Eirik
19th May 2007, 10:11 PM
It's hard to beat a Swedish anvil like a Kohlswa.
Am I right or am I right? :D

Currently I have no anvil.....working on it though!!

It will probably be a small stake anvil of my own making. :2tsup:

Regards Eirik

watson
19th May 2007, 10:12 PM
No picture yet Forge, but I'll take one on Monday and post it......Going to the BBQ/swap meet tommorow.
The Anvil fire link is great, I'd been following it for quite a while, and then there are no new tutorials or files. Does anyone know what happened???

Grahame Collins
19th May 2007, 10:30 PM
Hi guys

If it is of interest to anyone ,below is a pic of an anvil I built for forging knives.
It is a piece of 400 x 70 x 60 bisalloy steel I found at the scrappy for a couple of bucks. I made it when employed as an Metalfab Instructor for TAFE. The profile cutter was used to shape the horn sections and then the oxy gouger to round over the horn.It was then ground with a BF angle grinder.

The smooth finish was applied with the slack slide of a belt grinder.

The lower body is 20 mm mild steel plate which was made from old weld coupons pressed and oxy cut to shape and welded as an open corner fillet.

The striking face was heated to cherry red and quenched in 100 liters of water. It took and hour or two before the water cooled enough to take it out.

The hollow in the base is filled with melted lead so it does want to bounce around.I estimate the weight at around 50 kilos.

If you can chance upon some alloy plate maybe?

Grahame

watson
19th May 2007, 10:42 PM
:(( Bugger...Bugger....Bugger!
Geez Grahame.......that's what we all wanted.
And words like profile cutter and oxy gouger.....I'm going into the corner to sulk.
:((
a very green/envious watson

BobL
20th May 2007, 12:07 AM
G'day Forge,
To form the horn, I tried a gas axe....bad.........I eventually got a 100mm GMC angle grinder, took the guard off and mounted a 250mm cut off wheel on it ( it took ten of them to do the job).......I then held my breath, closed my eyes, and over 14 or so days, I took little slivers off it until I had the rough horn shape.
Using the same GMC 100mm grinder, I then used flap discs ( 5 of them) until the horn was as smooth as silk.
To get the hole in the top, ( having a senior moment.can't think of the correct name) I under cut the web of the rail with the same angle grinder system over another cupla days, and then gas axed a hole in the top, and shaped the hole using an air run die grinder. (took a while)
It works, and I love it.........wish I knew an easier way to do it.

What a champ. . . !

This would probably be the sort of thing I would do because one can , but have you ever actually done the math? 10 cutoff wheels and 5 flap discs - I know you have had an invaluable zen-like life-forming experience from doing this, but what does an anvil of about the size you made actually cost?

watson
20th May 2007, 09:03 AM
G'day BobL,
True story.....still, finding an anvil in my area is next to impossible....and freight from afar would buy more cutting wheels.......I dunno about the zen like experience though.....there was a lot of cursing going on.

Grahame Collins
20th May 2007, 09:19 AM
Alright then!
We all want an anvil.Many of us don't have access to the tools and machinery I had to make my flash u beaut one.Not to worry there are ways and means to do it without some of the gear.one may have to bite the bullet and go to a fab shop for at least one of the processes.

The following is about as basic as I can reduce it to, but you will require the means to cut your plate, a welder and a grinder.It is either that or form a meaningful relationship with a boilemaker or metal fabricator of some sort.

In essence one does not require much more than a flat striking surface and a goodly mass of metal so we are not chasing the bastard over the shop as we strike on it.

A visit to a scrap yard or a welding engineering shop is in order to secure some heavy material. An I- beam off cut cut with thick flanges would be ideal.

I beam on its own may not be rigid enough so the spaces between the top and bottom flanges need to be gusseted.Use some 12mm plates or thicker to do this.

The striking surface can be a 25mm thick flat bar-yes you can get a bit of 25mm thick flat at an engineering shop.

Have it oxy cut to the profile of your choice and weld it it on top of your I beam allowing a smidgin of overhang to place fillet welds on the under sides.


The top surface can now be pad welded with low hydrogen electrodes. Using a low hydrogen electrode weld deposit will give you a very good striking surface as it will work harden over time.

It is also reasonable to machine or grind.
Pad welding is a weld surfacing technique. It involves laying bead after bead of parallel overlapping weld bead. Each bead overlaps the preceding bead by 2/3 rds.
It is a method by which we teach our beginners in the trade.

Don,t forget to drill holes in the bottom flanges to attach it to a stump.

.Now gentlemen start your anvils.

Grahame

rpepper
20th May 2007, 12:35 PM
Grahame,

That's a great method for building an anvil. I've been meaning to get a round tuit for a while, but have been making do with 18" of railway track my father gave me.

I spoke to a bloke at Gasweld who told me that in the 1960s an anvil was a pound ($2) for a pound (lb)!

Regards,

Richard

Grahame Collins
20th May 2007, 01:37 PM
Hi Richard,

A railway iron of sufficient weight makes a great anvil. Many are unaware that railway line comes in different weights per meter.Heavy duty rails for instance are used on coal train lines up here in the Bowen basin where as the light ones are used in lower traffic areas.

It is possible to get the old heavy duty line and reweld to build up the worn corners using the low hydrogen electrodes which contain manganese. The corners of the rail wear away on rails that are on a curve or a bend.When they are past regrinding they are replaced.

The advantage with railway iron is that the make up of the metal includes manganese which makes the metal work harden on the outside but still stay flexible enough internally to resist the strains of hundreds of wagons per day running over them.
A bit of a caution here is that if you are going to do this, reweld all of the top surface if you are going to get the surface machined. Bare line will have work hardened to such an extent it may well damage the milling head cutters. I have seen old line hard enough to blunten a centre pop


Below is a pic of a little bench anvil I made out of some very ligh duty tram line (read- railway line for cane trains)

I weighs a couple of kilos

Grahame

Andy Mac
20th May 2007, 03:07 PM
Like several of you I used a home made rail iron anvil for a few years, but despite the horn shape it just wasn't up to the job. And the high pitch ringing noise annoyed me and several other people nearby!:rolleyes: So I bit the bullet and purchased a real secondhand one, ex-defence force. It cost a packet, $600 to be exact, but I just couldn't find anything else in reasonable condition below that price. I haven't regretted the decision:D!
There is a crew in SE Qld making anvils, but transport to Vic would be a killer.

Cheers,

Aerohydro
22nd May 2007, 12:33 PM
Thanks Grahame, this is exactly the sort of thing I was hoping could work. Now of course I have more questions. What sort of a welder is required to weld material like this? I have an old single phase stick welder, could this work? Also, what sort of spacing would you suggest for the gussets? What sort of steel would be best for the top plate?

This site (http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/anvil1/anvil2.html) describes quite well the process of building an anvil from heavy plate. It follows many of the same processes Grahame explained but on a larger scale.

Thanks,

Leon.

Grahame Collins
22nd May 2007, 07:14 PM
Hi Aerohydro
Lets begin at the beginning.

What size anvil do you desire?
How long,wide ,high? Just set the specs and we will go from there.

Yes a single phase welder is ok if it will run at least 3.25mm diameter low hydrogen electrodes.Preferably it should have enough grunt to weld 4mm diameter.It will run low hydrogen ok if big enough.

A 7" or 9" angle grinder is also desirable but that could be hired.
Are there engineering shops or a local weld shop close to where you live? Tha may warrant a visit to see what sort of heavy offcuts they have. Mild structural steel is ok for the anvil body.

Grahame

swiftden
22nd May 2007, 07:25 PM
Watson do you have a picture of your anvil ?

Aerohydro
23rd May 2007, 10:14 AM
A face 300x100mm would be rather nice, height doesn't worry me as long as the thing is fairly stable and returns a reasonable amount of my hammering effort. Is this determined by the type of steel, mass or something else?

If I was to weld a piece of plate or bar to some I beam, would there be an advantage to drilling some holes in the top flange and plug welding (correct term?), or is just going around the edges adequate?

There's an engineering place not too far from me that does large heat exchangers and pressure vessels and that sort of thing, I'll check them out when I get a chance.

Thanks,

Leon.

Andy Mac
23rd May 2007, 11:20 AM
Quoting an idea from Alex Weyger's book, The Modern Blacksmith, if you're after a heavy, hard lump of iron with a flat surface on which you can hammer, try earthmoving equipment wreckers. They have yards stacked full of odd shaped parts, many with suitable surfaces (round, flat, sharp edged, holes of various shape etc) and made of hard steel. I don't know about cost, but you may get something for scrap iron price?

Cheers

Bodgy
23rd May 2007, 02:23 PM
Regarding shaping a bit of rail track, I took mine to a metal shop and for $30 they shaped the horn with oxy. A friend then milled the top flat, inc a step. I finally shaped the horn with grinding wheels etc. Works fine.

A point to note, the steel becomes case hardened from years of pummelling by trains. Don't give up on the shaping cause it gets softer the deeper u go.

Still stumped about cutting a hardy hole tho.

Aerohydro
5th Jun 2007, 01:16 PM
Well here's what I've come up with so far. It leaves plenty to be desired but it's far better than nothing. The next improvement will probably be something to hold hardie tools.

See here (http://www.instructables.com/id/EJWFUXHF2DSDRG1/) for some pictures.

bsrlee
5th Jun 2007, 09:58 PM
Jeweler's suppliers used to bring in cast iron sockets for holding large stakes used in making tablewear - as far as I know they are still being made. You may also find them at places like Blackwoods in the blacksmithing section.

They were intended to be inlet into the top of a stump or a bench - the top was a disk shape with a square hole & the under side had an extension of the square socket about 3-4" (75-100mm) deep. I've also seen illustrations of them without the disk, and ones intended to go in the hardie hole of a large anvil for small stakes.

ramm
21st Aug 2007, 05:31 PM
hi all,

where to find railroad for anvil?? i live in melbourne area


thanks

Marc
21st Aug 2007, 11:34 PM
http://http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/anvils/afc-news_hofi.jpghttp://http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/anvils/afc-news_hofi.jpg Have a look here (http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/anvils/making/index.php) if you want to do your own anvil. Personally I think it is a bit too much work for the money you can buy a second hand anvil.

I give you that on e-bay people pay way too much but it is a matter of searching until you find your anvil. Small anvil cost $5 to 10 dollars a kilo. Bigger go for a bit less but not too much less. Don't buy new Chinese anvil since they are made out of rubbish and you will make a dent in them with every hammer stroke. If that does not bother you, then you can not buy cheaper.

Old anvil are not necessary all good. Look for good straight edges with no bits missing, an anvil with rounded edges and missing corners will only be good for some limited work. Anvil with a concave surface will need restoring. Unless you are prepared to resurface it and have the welding equipment to do it, forget it.

There is a guy in Newcastle that is making new small anvil (25 kilo I think) that are made the old fashion way. Good stuff but at a price. I think he sells them for $300 a piece. Way too much for such a small toy, conceded a very good toy. Check out e-bay for that one.

I wouldn't buy anything less than 40 Kilos for an anvil to do small jobs, 70 or 80 is better, probably the ideal weight for wrought iron blacksmithing. The big monster 200 kilo and up are nice if you don't have to move them...ever, only necessary to forge very large stuff. Unless you can still swing a 5 kilo hammer with one hand you don't need it.If you really want to forge large stuff make yourself a power hammer and save your back.

Railway line anvils are good to straighten 3 inch nails.:2tsup:

The Hofi anvil is probably the best anvil that you could make yourself (http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/anvils/afc-news_hofi.jpg)


(http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/anvils/making/index.php)

randellu
2nd Sep 2007, 11:41 PM
Check ebay. Saw some anvils in there recently at fair prices.
Good luck.
Randell

tanii51
3rd Sep 2007, 03:53 PM
dont know if these are big enoughhttp://paramountbrowns.ihub.com.au/DesktopDefault.aspx?ItemID=2726043&TabID=806423&Alias=paramountbrownsau

ramm
9th Sep 2007, 01:02 AM
i couldnt find the anvil at ebay within the budget range, so i bought square mild steel and i'm going to use it as an anvil.. well i dont need a big anvil in the first place as i'm going to use it for knife forging anyway.. after reading wayne goddard's $50 knife shop, i felt inspired and will try to forge some knife anytime soon.. anyway, thanks for the reply

Marc
9th Sep 2007, 07:51 PM
Well...lost another good one...$590 (plus $100 shipping) was too much to justify. Best anvil that I have seen on e-bay for a long time.
Check it out (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220145104175&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=012)

PS
If you don't mind an anvil with a bit missing, this one (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150157210777&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX&refitem=220145104175&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&refwidgettype=osi_widget) will not attract many bids if at all.
( I do mind)

durwood
9th Sep 2007, 08:59 PM
Guys don't loose hope!

I have an anvil exactly the same as the one Marc posted (the Soderfors) except its a pound lighter and made in 1923 its in even better condition than the one shown on ebay. My son in law bought it at an auction a couple of years ago it needed sandblasting and I faced the top and powdercoated the non working surfaces. It only cost $25. So they are out there.

If you are near Temora (NSW) the local junk dealer east side of town had three last time I was in there they are 200lb jobs and he wanted between $200 and $500 for them ( it was a few months ago now.)

Last year at the Ballarat swap meet a guy was selling new anvils he had manufactured about 15'" long for just under $200 from memory. He was from somewhere on Victoria. Maybe someone knows who he is.

Check the Land newspaper for clearance sales they are regulary in them. If you get the right day you could get one at the "right" price.

Marc
11th Sep 2007, 06:36 PM
This one takes the cake, ugliest ever, rounded edges yet look at the price! (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270161279206&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:AU:12)

kraits
11th Nov 2012, 11:16 PM
240479got this anvil about 4 years back, peter wright 225 lbs, made around 1865 going by the markings, cost me $600, easy find, called a few second hand machine shops around adelaide and had it that week. just need to know where to look.