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Andy Mac
14th Aug 2006, 10:28 PM
Hi there,
Always on the hunt to find cheaper ways and means, I heard a guy the other day (at the pub:rolleyes:) say its possible to respool MIG wire if you've got a metal lathe. (Just feed from a home-brew lay shaft onto the small spool driven in the lathe...) Now my little home welder uses these small spools, 5kg, and cost disproportionately high , compared to the larger size, 15kg.
Initial web searches come up with a big "Don't try it":eek:, due to probable feed problems, as manufacturers have gone to great effort to ensure smooth feed of their wire.
I guess it makes sense, but not that easy to dissuade me!:p Surely its a matter of controlling tension during feed, plus some cyclic pattern as the wire lays on? A wool winder is a simple device, handcranked, but lays a crisscross pattern, as does a fishing reel. Back gearing from the lathe perhaps, to control the pattern?
Anyone with advice or suggestions??

Cheers,

DJ’s Timber
14th Aug 2006, 10:54 PM
G'day Andy

I would'nt bother. Not only do you have to get a neat spool, you would wear the coating on the wire, leading to welding probs as well

Grahame Collins
15th Aug 2006, 08:38 AM
Andy
I assume you already have a stack of empty 5kg spools?

Also you need to look in the blurb that comes with the hard wire advertising .
Note the the term precision layer wound spool.Not only does it imply layer winding but also even tension.
I have burnt hundreds of spools of wire and therfore had to load in the fresh ones..
Every now and again while loading a new 15 kg spool, I have had a snafu slipup and while feeding the lead into the guides and the top layers section unspools. That section ,as it travels through the mig wire feed system behaves like merde,at times. The varying tension of the wire can be a pain in the rrrs if you don't get it right.You can have a situation similiar to the slackening off of the axle tension spring.The feed rolls need to pull against a constant weight or pressure and annoying stuff happens when they don't.
Welding can present enough random difficulties and problems as it is. Sure you can save a dollar or two but I don't believe the cost to benefit ratio in this case is justified. However you are probably more patient than I would be.

Grahame

journeyman Mick
15th Aug 2006, 09:40 AM
Andy,
just an idea, what if you make a holder for the larger spool which you then mount on a sheet of ply on which you've also mounted your mig. You would take the cover off the mig and run the wire from the large spool through the area normally occupied by the 5kg spool. You could just have some locating cleats on the ply for the mig so that you could easily remove it for portability/work on site.

Mick

Andy Mac
15th Aug 2006, 11:05 AM
Thanks for the replies, now I'm getting cold feet! Maybe a setup like Mick mentioned is the go...just a matter of keeping dust off it.

Cheers,

glock40sw
15th Aug 2006, 06:06 PM
G'day Andy.
Mate, I do it all the time.
Buy 15kg rolls of 0.6 or 0.8 wire and respool onto 1kg & 5kg spools.

I have apiece of allthread that gets chucked in the lathe with a nut each side of the empty spool.

Have the 15kg setup on a stand like sparkies use when running cables.
Then it is just a matter of hand guiding it across the spool, being smooth in the hand movement while pressing the jog button on the lathe (3phase).

I have used about 4 or 5 spools done like this with no feed problems at all.
buying 15kg spools from ebay is far more cost effective than outlaying cash for the small ones.

forge
21st Aug 2006, 10:08 AM
Hi there,
Always on the hunt to find cheaper ways and means, Now my little home welder uses these small spools, 5kg,
Cheers,
Andy ,a man with your skills could build a homade freestanding wirefeeder, so you could run the big spools .(It would look a bit top heavy.)Or aquire a s/h one .Only prob. my be the rust(at least it is where i live-condesation from the moist air)I had a freestanding wire feeder mounted on an overhead rack in the past.It swang in a 4m arc .Im scrounging parts for my present machine.Only thing im concerned is the rust on the mig wire on the spool.Anyone has a suggestion on best way to keep the wire rust free?
Regards ,forge

Grahame Collins
21st Aug 2006, 06:10 PM
Easy one,
When the wire spool is not in use, place a garbage bag along with one of those moisture absorbent thingies that come with some medications.Mine come with my Coversyl blood pressure tabs. A twist tie keeps it locked up.
I use them at school so the wire on our migs doesn't get rusty in our- ( not frequent enough) school recess breaks.
For the end of year break I remove the spool and bag it up with the moisture absorbent doover.
Rusty mig wire liner guides will will foul your wire liner and guides.They look like cafe curtain wire,you know,coiled!
Eventually big pain in bum to keep the machine going well.Most liners guides are removable and respond to a good wash in kero - yes kerosine -then a bit of a soak in metho- then blow out with an air tool.
While you have them out it is a ggod time to check them for kinks.If you pull the liner through your 1st finger and thumb you will find any irregularities very quickly.If so replace the liner.That's why you bought a brand of machine that you could get spares for, dinya!
hope this is of assistance
Grahame

Andy Mac
21st Aug 2006, 06:34 PM
Hi forge,
Yeah, corrosion on the wire can be a pain, and as Grahame says the liner gets fouled up with the dust. I have a simple addition to keep some scale and dust from feeding through. I fit a film canister stuffed with steel wool onto the wire between the spool and feed roller. Drill a small hole in the in the base of the canister and the lid, feed the wire through the packing and then into the roller when changing rolls. It just dangles there and the doesn't interfere...not perfect but some help in keeping dust from entering the liner.
I had a look into my MIG between welding jobs today, to try and work out how to fit the bigger roll above the usual postion. I think its feasible, just a matter of rerouting the wire as it heads down then across to the feed system. I may even run it around one turn or so on an empty small spool (in its normal position) just as a change of direction. A well fitted box, with a door, could screw directly to the body of the welder.

Cheers,

Andy Mac
21st Aug 2006, 11:37 PM
Here's a quick drawing I did on Sketchup...not perfect, in fact should have done it by hand and scanned it!:o Basically a sheetmetal box big enough for the 15kg spool sits over top of the existing spool, bolted into place. I guess the shaft can made to apply tension/friction for feed control, replicating the existing setup. The wire could run down through a slot to an empty spool, loop around, then run off to the feed rollers. Any thoughts?:)


Cheers,

boilermaker
22nd Aug 2006, 01:20 AM
Try using two pipes set at appropiate distance and heights, a pronged attachment that fits in the spool spokes on a variable speed drill, elbow/forearm as feeder spool tensioner and a paddle to maintain the fed spool wire.
Forget the steel wool ...buy lubricated wire cleaners that attach between the spool and feed rollers.
Utilise a bigger liner (eg 1mm for 0.8 wire) and back blow the liner every few hours use...don't forget to blow the dust out of your welder every few months too!

Andy Mac
22nd Aug 2006, 09:24 AM
Hi boilermaker,
Welcome to the forum and thanks for the advise. I see from another thread you seem to be using gasless MIG, is that right? Hence getting rid of the shroud as no gas is needed on the workpiece. The bigger liner, just more room for wire feed?
Cheers for now,:)

Bondy1s
22nd Aug 2006, 10:00 PM
G'day Andy.
Mate, I do it all the time.
Buy 15kg rolls of 0.6 or 0.8 wire and respool onto 1kg & 5kg spools.

I have apiece of allthread that gets chucked in the lathe with a nut each side of the empty spool.

Have the 15kg setup on a stand like sparkies use when running cables.
Then it is just a matter of hand guiding it across the spool, being smooth in the hand movement while pressing the jog button on the lathe (3phase).

I have used about 4 or 5 spools done like this with no feed problems at all.
buying 15kg spools from ebay is far more cost effective than outlaying cash for the small ones.
I agree, I have never had any problems respooling from 15 Kg to 1Kg spools for a spool feed torch. I simply mount the target spool in a hub in the lathe chuck and control the tension by hand using the lathe's clutch and pressure on the source spool. I expect there would be no dramas respooling on to a 5 Kg roll for the same reason- the wire drive rollers sort out any minor discrepancies in the spool before the wire enters the torch liner. Assuming enough care is taken to avoid kinks or overlaps during spooling, the wire will feed of fthe spool without a problem.

boilermaker
25th Oct 2006, 12:12 AM
Hi Andymac.....yep I use gasless...did the figures and working daily it adds @ $20 a month but u save on time replacing empty gas bottles and of course never run out of gas on a day u can't get it. No nee for a shroud with gasless..in fact it causes more heat buildup in the tip ..shortening its life. Bigger liner...avoids grit buildup clogging it and allows the wire to get past small kinks. i run .9 wire with a 1.2 liner.

scooter
25th Oct 2006, 12:24 AM
Here's a quick drawing I did on Sketchup...not perfect, in fact should have done it by hand and scanned it!:o

That's one big bastard of a MIG you have there, Andy :eek: ;)

Andy Mac
25th Oct 2006, 10:18 AM
That's one big bastard of a MIG you have there, Andy :eek: ;)

Yeah, you should see my workbench....:rolleyes:

Andy Mac
8th Nov 2008, 05:44 PM
Well I have been meaning to respond to this thread for a while...like a year or so:rolleyes: so here it is, courtesy of running out of wire today during a production run of deck stumps.
I built a very basic re-spooling setup using my little metal lathe, and it works fine. Sorry Grahame, but despite you insisting that commercially wound spools are the only way to go, I have had no problems using re-spooled wire in over 4 replacements now. The feeding is a touch noisy as the wire flicks across the underlaying wind, but doesn't affect operation.
You can see in the first photo I mounted 2 plywood reels on a threaded bar: one is fixed to the bar, screwed to it via a lug on a nut (which is welded to the bar), and that reel has a drive dog (a.k.a. a bit of metal tube) epoxied into it- this locates the alignment hole in the MIG spool; the other reel fits on after the MIG spool is fitted and is held by another nut and washer. I place the large 15kg spool on an upright which fits into a wheel rim stand on the floor (I have several of these in the shed, and socket in various stands which can be easily modified), and lay the wire from the floor up to the lathe, threading it onto the empty spool. I place my right boot onto the stand to steady it, grab the wire with gloved mitt and turn on the lathe at slow speed. I then wave the incoming wire back and fwds to lay it onto the spool and away it goes.
The only real (reel?:-) problems are: in turning off the lathe, the floor spool keeps running on, which can get a tad untidy; and cutting the wire between spools, because if you don't secure both ends at once, it will get even more untidy!!:oo:
I have fantasized about making a mechanized feeder to adjust tension and lay the wire back and fwds, but my hand does an OK job for now.

Cheers

glock40sw
9th Nov 2008, 06:42 PM
G'day Andy Mac.

Works great Eh?

My setup is little bit (lets say) more agricultural than yours but still the same idea. Not once have I had a bindup on the spools.

However, I don'tre-spool Ali wire. It has enough feed issues on the factory reels.:D