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Bob Willson
12th Aug 2006, 05:08 PM
I want to buy a cheapish welder.
Can anybody tell me if this welder for $300 (http://www.gotools.com.au/welders.htm) is good enough for welding light RHS etc for making various hobby type stuff?
If not, then what else id available that may do the job at roughly the same price. (maximun of $500)

Wood Butcher
12th Aug 2006, 05:21 PM
Bob, a mte of mine has one of those $99 GMC arc welders. I have used it on several occasions and it is fine for light hobby welding. All you have to watch is the duty cycle, you can't use it for hours on end constantly welding.

Bob Willson
12th Aug 2006, 05:26 PM
I didn't know that GMC even made a welder. Are they the inverter type as per the on ein the advert?

Wood Butcher
12th Aug 2006, 05:29 PM
No, I don't think they would be inverter style. It just depends what you are after.

This webpage (http://www.gmcompany.com.au/index.cfm?module=products&cid=60) is there welder range.

Bob Willson
12th Aug 2006, 06:16 PM
So what is the difference betweentheir WELDR and the CEN. They both seem to have about the same duty cycle etc?

zathras
12th Aug 2006, 06:44 PM
The CEN comes with 10 rods, facemask, chipping hammer and wire brush

The WELDR is just the unit.

Back on the original inverter welder. I have been watching the 160A version from the same manufacturer on E-Bay of late. Bit like you, undecided. I've seen a small version similar to what are looking at in action and they seem to work well with a very smooth arc.
Figures as the inverter would run at a much higher frequency than 50Hz, allowing the current to maintain a more constant rate.

I'm looking at the 160A models because they can run a 3mm (1/8") rod, the smaller units are max 2.5mm. I figure spend a bit more and know you have the extra capacity.

As for 1.6mm rods. Hens teeth me thinks.

Wood Butcher
12th Aug 2006, 06:46 PM
What do you mean "1.6mm rods. Hens Teeth" :confused:

echnidna
12th Aug 2006, 06:48 PM
I have a GMC welder.
Its a good unit to use.
Dunno what the duty cycle is.
It is a far better machine than my previous big brand name Cigweld unit.

For the amount of welding I do its good enough.

echnidna
12th Aug 2006, 06:50 PM
I just buy small packs of rods from supercheap,
I got 1.6mm rods and 2mm and 2.5 mm and 3mm. They all work ok.

zathras
12th Aug 2006, 06:52 PM
You don't see 1.6 listed very often, usually 2 and 2.5.

I'll have a look at Super Cheap next time I'm in there, thanks for the tip.

Bob Willson
12th Aug 2006, 07:11 PM
What about this type of welder (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SIP-Gasless-Mig-Welder_W0QQitemZ170017492427QQihZ007QQcategoryZ46413QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) then?

Wood Butcher
12th Aug 2006, 07:19 PM
Another mate of mine had the gas version of that welder and it is a really nice welder to use. I have heard several good comments about SIP welders. Do you know what the RRP would be??

Wood Butcher
12th Aug 2006, 07:21 PM
Bob, have a look a this brand new SIP gasless welder (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NEW-PORTABLE-MIG-GASLESS-WELDER-MADE-IN-ITALY_W0QQitemZ180015294878QQihZ008QQcategoryZ46413QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) the same as the ebay on you linked to.

DJ’s Timber
12th Aug 2006, 07:37 PM
G'day Bob

I would stick with an arc welder. The little migs ain't a bad machine but they are really only suited for light work and can be fiddly to set up. An arc is a bit more versatile and has less wear and tear than a mig does. Of all the migs that I have owned or worked with, I have had to do some maintenance or replace parts to keep them going well. With an arc you just stick the rod in the holder and away you go. Have a look at this one http://cgi.ebay.com.au/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180014222223

Bob Willson
12th Aug 2006, 08:33 PM
Well that one is even cheaper than th eother SIP welder...but what is a SIP?
Standard Industy Plaquelator or what?

I have no fixed ideas about a welder type, and othert threads have advised that a stick welder may be preferable to MIG and TIG because of the cost of gas and other things; so I am really after advice telling me what may be:
1) the best type of DIY welder (assuming non-esoteric usage) :)
1a) Is MIG OK as long as you use the gasless type?
2) Price
3) capacity about 10g (3.2 mm is fine)
4) Warranty
5) extras supplied
6) anything else I may have missed in the above.

Schtoo
12th Aug 2006, 08:46 PM
Bob, if it's just for mild steel then stick with a stick. The GMC and their cheapy bretheren are plenty adequate for 99% of welding on light mild steel stuff.

My own welder was only $120 (currency conversion), and it's great. However, mine is copper cored (the normal cheapies are ally cored) and it was made here. Absolutely bombproof.

The SIP mig there looks similar to mine except mine is adjustable for current and wire speed. Without those two adjustments, I would hesitate to says it's a viable proposition. If you could find an adjustable unit for a good price, grab it. Great welder, wish I had mine here.

If I had $500 to spend on welding gear, I'd grab a cheapy welder and an oxy setup. I could then weld all the steel things I want to, weld lots of other things with the oxy and cut with the oxy too.

But that's just me. ;)

DJ’s Timber
12th Aug 2006, 08:48 PM
G'day Bob

SIP is just a brand name. They are a pretty good welder and will weld with a 10g rod fine.
With a mig you have to adjust amps, wire speed and have to keep the tips clean. Replace liners very so often when they jam up. They have a lot more consumables and when you want to do just the one weld on a Sunday morning and the tip is buggered and the shops are closed, you will wished that you had bought the arc instead.
You will need to keep the roll of wire dry and away from any moisture. With rods I keep them in a air tight container and there are sweet.

Bob Willson
12th Aug 2006, 09:25 PM
OK, I will go and have a look at the stick welders tomorrow.
Thanks everybody.

journeyman Mick
12th Aug 2006, 11:35 PM
Well that one is even cheaper than th eother SIP welder...but what is a SIP?
Standard Industy Plaquelator or what?

I have no fixed ideas about a welder type, and othert threads have advised that a stick welder may be preferable to MIG and TIG because of the cost of gas and other things; so I am really after advice telling me what may be:
1) the best type of DIY welder (assuming non-esoteric usage) :)
1a) Is MIG OK as long as you use the gasless type?
2) Price
3) capacity about 10g (3.2 mm is fine)
4) Warranty
5) extras supplied
6) anything else I may have missed in the above.


Bob,
you need:
7) will take bark covered welding rods so you can weld timber to steel.:D

Mick

zathras
13th Aug 2006, 08:10 AM
I have used a cheapy gasless MIG and a decent gas MIG.

Give me the gas any day.

Gasless may be good on a decent welder, but I find the combination of cheap and gasless to not be ideal.

As someone else said, stick with stick.

Rossluck
13th Aug 2006, 08:46 AM
Hello Bob. Just reading through the posts I'd say that the ideal welder for you would be a second hand MIG. You could use gasless wire or buy the little disposable gas bottles. Welding RHS with a stick welder is pretty difficult. You can do it of course but it takes a bit of experience. I have a TIG and a Mig and a stick (all bought for very cheap second hand) and I'd use ther TIG first (very slow, brilliant weld, good fun), then the MIG (hard to get the setting right, you have to adjust voltage first then the amps through the wire speed, when set up it's pretty good), and then reluctantly the stick (it'll want to burn through the steel). The perfect welder for you is a TIG, but a good one is very expensive and they use more argon than a MIG (because they're slower).

The first welder you indicated is a rip-off of Miller welders. Miller are one of the very best in the world. The mere fact that they are so blatantly tapping into Miller's reputation is an ethical worry. SIP is a british manufaturer, but most of their welders are made in Italy. They range in quality, and their top quality ones have a top quality price.

If I were you I'd go into a Cash Converters or look in the trading post (do it online and check everyday) for a second hand, small, good quality MIG (BOC, WIA), even if you have to lay-by it. Try Browns Plains Cash Converters. They have a big turnover there and you can get some good deals.

If you do get a MIG, the small Argonshield bottle is around $120 hire per year, and I think around $100 per refill (bottle swap). The hire hurts when it sits around, so you could try the small disposable bottles. I'm thinking about it myself.

Grahame Collins
13th Aug 2006, 09:36 AM
Gday Bob

Fitness for purpose is the name of the game when selecting a welder to buy.
Some questions to ask yourself.
I am I going to use it once a day or once a year? Will I be welding brackets or battleships.What I am willing to pay for high quality if i am not going to use
all that often.
Me I would go stick for minimum maintenence hassles. Check ou the thread on stick welding problems.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ad.php?t=19428
hope it helps.
Grahame

Mick C.
13th Aug 2006, 10:32 AM
Like a number of previous posts, you really have to choose the best type for what you will be doing.

Dont let anyone scare you off from buying a MIG, if you buy a good brand name unit you will not have all of the TROUBLES that most people refer to, and i'm guessing that they are all from cheapies.

I have a smaller WIA MIG and have never replaced the liner after 5 odd years, have only ever changed a few tips here and there, the mention of keeping the wire clean from corrosion, all you need is a rag soaked in oil kept in a small cup inside the welder to prevent this, you can even get a kind of scotch brite cleaner for the wire that just clips into the wire in the wire feed area. As for the troubles in setting up a MIG, its only 2 settings, amps and wire speed, and to a point, after a small bit of practice, you will know about how much current setting you will need, and this will also give you a hint as to the wire speed needed, and usually you can set by eye what you will need straight up and not need to be changing it. It really is that simple! But the down side, unless you want to use innershield, you are a lil stuck in windy outside conditions, but hey, who the hell wants to be welding outside ;)

Rossluck
13th Aug 2006, 02:54 PM
Welders are difficult. and I find that I contradict myself a lot on this forum depending upon what I've been most recently welding. In a way it's like graphic equalisers, when you don't have one the music sounds fine, but when you hve one you're forever fiddling with them and the music never sounds quite right.

I suggested a MIG, Bob, because that's what I use for RHS. The TIG's a bit slow for it (although it does a great job -- too good for RHS), with stick welding, the stick will be hard to control as the metal heats up (it'll want to burn through no matter how low the amps). Good welders/boilermakers can do it by tacking and moving around to cooler areas and so on, but I'm not in that category. Where MIG is good with RHS is that it can be adjusted to lay metal on the joint in a sort of a 50/50 penetration/filler combination. That is, you have enough penetration to make a strong joint, and enough filler (wire feed) to keep the weld cool enough so that it doesn't blow holes in the metal.

Simomatra
13th Aug 2006, 03:25 PM
Bob

Do you want to buy the welder or would a loan of one fit. I live not so far away at Camira and have a 160 amp stick welder GW Healey by manufacture run off a 15 amp socket and can handle up to 4mm rods

I hardly ever use it so am will to loan it to you for a short time if you only need it for the one job

send us a PM if interested

Bob Willson
13th Aug 2006, 04:56 PM
That is a very generous offer that you make Simonatra. I want one for the future so that it is always available for me. So thanks a lot for the offer but ... :D

I am also coming more around to the view that a gasless MIG with stick abilities will probably fill all my likely needs.

I went out to have a look in @#$%^& Bunnings this morning and was disapointed in what was available and the prices thereof. The only one that seemed as though it may have been of value was the GMC WLDR but it didn't look very good to me so I will continue to search.
PS I also asked at a Cash Converters. They had a Tradesman 45 - 70 amp welder going for $299.95. This is ridiculously overpriced for a second hand welder that didn't even include any leads etc. Note that price; not even $300 but a weasel price that is designed to fool people into thinking they are not actually paying $300. P1sses me off.

Rossluck
13th Aug 2006, 05:33 PM
PS I also asked at a Cash Converters. They had a Tradesman 45 - 70 amp welder going for $299.95. This is ridiculously overpriced for a second hand welder that didn't even include any leads etc. Note that price; not even $300 but a weasel price that is designed to fool people into thinking they are not actually paying $300. P1sses me off.

That's right. Most of these shops tend to overprice things. Try the one I mentioned above. I have no connection, but have picked up some serious bargains there. They are substantially cheaper than the others, but you have to keep checking. I don't even bother with other CC's.

By the way, from memory SIP stands for .........? industrial products.

Wood Butcher
13th Aug 2006, 07:14 PM
a gasless MIG with stick abilities
A gasless MIG that does stick as well!?! Does such a thing exist??

zathras
13th Aug 2006, 07:16 PM
Gaseous Tig's can manage the stick, but MIG? Haven't seen any.

Riverland
16th Aug 2006, 04:53 PM
l would like to thank Bob Willson for his quick payment in the buying of my Mig. Top Bloke to do business with.

Simomatra
16th Aug 2006, 07:47 PM
All the best with your new direction Bob

Bob Willson
17th Aug 2006, 04:46 AM
Thanks Sam
Having a good welder will make all the difference.

timbo123
17th Aug 2006, 12:18 PM
A few ideas
DON'T Buy your rods from super cheep Buy quality brand names WIA are the BEST. There is NO comparison welding with these apposed to cheap stuff.
The Best arcs have a Copper core - a copper core welder will last your grandkids for ever. You can tell by the weight the coppers are heavy as.
You need good duty cycle I bet you that the duty cycles are crappier then they say they are on the cheep ones.
Also the HRTZ are a good idea will make the welding a lot smoother.
If you think you are welding ok with a cheep welder just put your weld in a good vice and snap it off (or grind off) you will see that the welding has not gone through properly the strength is greatly reduced.

I have seen great snd hand arc welders go on Ebay for next to nothing far better to buy ad quality old copper core then a crappy new one.

Ps make sure the earth wire is of some heavy duty amps and long enough.
Also with a Arc that has around 200 amps one can buy these really cool tig converters for around $250 with a tig one could weld a coke can together.

boilermaker
22nd Aug 2006, 12:17 AM
there is no such thing as a good cheap welder. Cheap welders have plastic parts and thin motherboards meaning they are more likely to break down and cost as much to repair.
i own a Lincoln 170t MIG, run Lincoln 0.9 flux core wire (excellent for galv steel, CIG a close second) through a 1.2 liner, tossed the shroud long ago and have owned it for 12 years. It has had a hell of a life, dropped, squashed, dragged, etc, worked 12 hour shifts and still it keeps going. Put a SIP through the same treatment and I would give it 3 months tops.

If you must go stick use quality rods like wia or cig satincraft (easier to use). The amps of the welder determines its capabilities...most site work is done with 150- 170 amp welders ... Kempii, fronious or esab inverter welders as not only are they good but lightweight. rarely does anyone reach a welders duty cycle (except on cheap ones) and if they do they probably need a rest too.

general rule of thumb is the weld is to be no bigger than the thickness of the material you are welding. ( I can put down a 8mm single pass fillet with mine and do multiple if needed)
avoid bunnings for supplies as they often charge 150% of tool shop prices...and always ask for trade discount!


Hi all!

boilermaker
22nd Aug 2006, 12:36 AM
PS. Gasless is cheaper for the hobbyist...no bottle hire or running around for a refill! If you ran the welder 4 hrs a day five days a week, flux core would probably cost you an extra $40 a month/$2 a day . Cheap flux wire is not worthwhile...lots of spatter, porosity and poor penetration..use Lincoln or CIG.

Rossluck
23rd Aug 2006, 02:40 PM
i own a Lincoln 170t MIG, run Lincoln 0.9 flux core wire (excellent for galv steel, CIG a close second) through a 1.2 liner, tossed the shroud long ago and have owned it for 12 years. It has had a hell of a life, dropped, squashed, dragged, etc, worked 12 hour shifts and still it keeps going. Put a SIP through the same treatment and I would give it 3 months tops.

i all!

While I agree with you about Lincolns, Boilermaker, I should point out that SIP make a range of welders, and their top of the range industrial stuff is probably 75% as good as Lincoln and Miller and so on. I owned one of their 250 amp industial ones for a while, and apart from a highly sensitive wire speed dial, it was a good welder (my brother still has it).

DanP
23rd Aug 2006, 03:39 PM
I had a 140A SIP portable and it would run 3.25mm rods beautifully. Cost me about $160. Would run for about 1 to 1.5 hours of 3.25's one after the other before it would stall. Out for long enough for a smoke then back on line.

I would suggest if you plan to weld continuously, get a quality MIG. If you are using it for hobby work, get a cheap arc. Don't know about the GMC and similar yet, never used one.

Dan

boilermaker
25th Oct 2006, 01:19 AM
"I owned one of their 250 amp industial ones for a while" ...a workshop welder on wheels that doesn't get knocked around as much as opposed to a portable machine....still "probably 75% as good " ...why not go all the way and have a machine that lasts for years?

boilermaker

pauljygrant
25th Feb 2009, 07:07 PM
[quote=boilermaker;358728]

avoid bunnings for supplies as they often charge 150% of tool shop prices...and always ask for trade discount!


But is your tool shop open 7 days a week and until 9pm on weekdays? This all comes at a cost. Paul

brisbanefitter
25th Feb 2009, 11:23 PM
somebody mentioned mig welder that can stick weld out of the same unit.
This is possible, mig inverters are available that can mig and stick weld, are lightweight at around 15 to 20kg.
Downside, they need a decent power supply, a 165 amp needs about 15amp supply minimum.
a 250 amp will need to run around the 32 amp supply, on single phase.

excellent concept for site work with lightweight and compact meaning portability is good, but the power requirements may be an issue for some on the higher amp units.

they can run gas or gassless mig, and stick.

I think that more manufacturers may go this way in the future with inverter technology getting cheaper to manufacture.