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Hards2u
14th Dec 2019, 02:59 PM
hi all, i have set a challenge to wind my own coils to repair the growing number of sick magnetos i have and non running engines . i purchased an old machine made by v.p engineering a division of halsten engineering of balgowlah nsw. its a eclipse e59 coil winder and was purchased new in oct 1983. my search show the named company closed permanently and im in hope that someone may have some knowledge of there machines and or written info such as operating manuals, thats a long shot i know. there are no additional gears supplied and no motor but that maybe easily enough sorted out. i have a sewing machine clutch motor and may use a vfd as well but i am also learning about them currently. then i start the winding education i hope wont be to difficult. any info will be great. thanks brett.

Clunky
14th Dec 2019, 04:27 PM
Hi Brett, can you put up a few pictures, might be able to elp out with some gears.

Hards2u
14th Dec 2019, 04:49 PM
Hi Brett, can you put up a few pictures, might be able to elp out with some gears.

I'll try.

Hards2u
14th Dec 2019, 06:12 PM
I'll try.The winderhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191214/521ec8dadc45ed300e704d9052e18d18.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191214/1f4c528ae31cdee226de42242a803d85.jpg

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BaronJ
14th Dec 2019, 09:41 PM
Hi Brett,

What sort of magnetos are you wanting to rewind ? Maybe some pictures of them would be informative.

Hards2u
15th Dec 2019, 09:36 AM
Hi Brett,

What sort of magnetos are you wanting to rewind ? Maybe some pictures of them would be informative.I have all my magnetos in pieces all neatly in there own box ready to start, a bit hard to take a pic that shows much. Mainly ek wico , bosch ffa1 and a ml lister a couple of lucas also .

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familyguy
15th Dec 2019, 10:19 AM
Looks like a great little machine I tried for years to pick up a used coil winder and eventually gave up and made one see this link https://metalworkforums.com/f303/t202029-coil-winder-project. Do you have the de spooler ?, if you can't locate extra gears there is always the possibility of converting it stepper drive for the wire traverse.

Hards2u
15th Dec 2019, 11:03 AM
Looks like a great little machine I tried for years to pick up a used coil winder and eventually gave up and made one see this link https://metalworkforums.com/f303/t202029-coil-winder-project. Do you have the de spooler ?, if you can't locate extra gears there is always the possibility of converting it stepper drive for the wire traverse.I passed on the despooler and now regret it but transport was my issue getting it to me. I have seen the post and I had started to follow your lead until I came across this one. I have no motor yet and am not sure what is the most practical and cost effective as this is not going to get a lot of use or at lest in the beginning. I have a sewing machine with a clutch motor but feel it may not be the best for very slow control at low speed. Throw all the good ideas at me. I have seen variac and rectifier with dc motors used but I need to be educated to know what really is best.

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familyguy
15th Dec 2019, 12:42 PM
I use a 12dc car radiator fan motor rated at 90W and a PWM speed controller simply because I had them - to stop start a toggle sw paralleled with a foot switch - at times it is handy to leave both hands free, like you say just about any motor can be used. If winding very thin wire a despooler is real handy helps to prevent wire breakage. Magnetos probably have very thin wire - thinnest I have wound is .09mm - I found best way was to start with motor speed on 0 - switch on then gradually increase motor speed and at same time give the motor spindle a light spin to overcome static friction, if I tried to just start on low speed the wire would just break. Also I made a de- spooler just for thin wire. The de-spooler just rides on the traverse carriage, I used the bearings from an old reel to reel video head - very low friction - winding tension is controlled by a light spring and nylon cord it looks very rudimentry but works well, I'll post a picture shortly.

Hards2u
15th Dec 2019, 01:06 PM
I use a 12dc car radiator fan motor rated at 90W and a PWM speed controller simply because I had them - to stop start a toggle sw paralleled with a foot switch - at times it is handy to leave both hands free, like you say just about any motor can be used. If winding very thin wire a despooler is real handy helps to prevent wire breakage. Magnetos probably have very thin wire - thinnest I have wound is .09mm - I found best way was to start with motor speed on 0 - switch on then gradually increase motor speed and at same time give the motor spindle a light spin to overcome static friction, if I tried to just start on low speed the wire would just break. Also I made a de- spooler just for thin wire. The de-spooler just rides on the traverse carriage, I used the bearings from an old reel to reel video head - very low friction - winding tension is controlled by a light spring and nylon cord it looks very rudimentry but works well, I'll post a picture shortly.It this a well suited unit would you think, fwd and rev with control.383747

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familyguy
16th Dec 2019, 01:27 AM
My PWM controller is a diy job I built many years ago I think the max current it can handle is around 10 amps, the one pictured looks to be able to handle more current so as long the motor is within the specs of the controller it should be ok. Industrial coil winders like yours often have motors around 300W - 500W I believe to handle heavier wire. My motor is by the way from a late 60's Renault 16 a permanent magnet motor.

The site https://archive.org/index.php has some downloadable user manuals for Douglas/Avo coil winders even though they are not the same machine they do contain useful info things like on wire tension so if you haven't visited the site it is worth a look. My despooler is a copy of the Douglas/Avo despooler with 2 brakes a static brake and an overrun brake. I'll try to post the pics of the second despooler I built for fine wire tomorrow.

familyguy
16th Dec 2019, 09:02 PM
Here are the pics of my fine wire despooler. The arm with the slot and the brass idler wheels is the coil winder wire guide it is adjustable for reach and angle via the slot, for heavier wire above 0.16mm I use my despooler as it is in the video and the 3 brass guide pulleys on the wire guide arm, a static brake on the despooler controls wire tension, I also have a nylon guide/tensioner that can be mounted on the wire guide arm, a spring applies a clamping force to the two nylon 'cheeks' and so provides wire tension - in this instance I back off the despooler static brake.

For fine wire I knocked up the despooler that clamps to the wire guide arm in place of the first guide pulley - fine wire is usually on small spools. as you can see it is very rudimentry, the nylon cord loop has a light spring this applies a small (very small) amount of static braking for wire tension, I can back off the brass screw holding the spring and so regulate the static brake, there is no over-run brake as small spools of fine wire are very light and don't tend to overrun if run at low speed. Obviously the wire spool moves back and forth with the traverse carriage.

A 1/4" all thread rod attached to a bearing carries the wire spool clamped with a nut, not shown in the pics is a pair of plastic cones that centre the spool on the all thread rod, the wire spool should run reasonably true, the bearing was taken from the video head drum of an old B&W reel to reel video recorder, I saw this on the internet - a guy had restored a vintage test instrument, the 50 uA moving coil meter had to be rewound and he found that he needed a really low friction bearing for his despooler, the wire was 0.02mm and broke very easily.


I've run my setup at 200rpm with 0.09mm wire, I may have been able to go faster but did not want to risk wire breakage, good commercial winders can go to 3000rpm with fine wire, the slow speed didn't bother me, I wound a small audio transformer 6000 turns 0.09mm wire it did not take that long.

I hope the pics tell the story - sorry for the junk in the background makes it a bit hard to pick out the bits of the coil winder you just need to look a bit harder.
383761
383762
383763
383764
383766

Stustoys
17th Dec 2019, 08:52 PM
From what little I remember, for the finer wires the spool didn't rotate, the wire is drawn off the end of the spool(like most fishing reels).


good commercial winders can go to 3000rpm with fine wire,
For the fine stuff they also had controller to ramp up and down(in fact if I recall correctly some of them had two ramps at each end)

Having waffled on for long enough, the point of my post. I have some "fairly small" despoolers with brakes kicking around here some place. If either or both of you are interested in having one I will dig one out so you can see what they are like size wise.

familyguy
18th Dec 2019, 12:45 AM
Yes there are spools that don't rotate, the spool is tapered and sits small end up - wire comes off the small end, a device sits on top of the spool and helps despool it - for fine wire I believe it is called a wisker and essentially keeps the turns of wire from going loose and dropping to the bottom of the spool. I have a large spool 0.3mm diam wire around 250mm in diameter at the large end it is heavy around 10 -12kg, I doubt that size wire could start the spool rotating. All of the fine wire I have is on small spools up to 40 or 50mm in diam. so they don't present a problem for my diy despooler.

I have some larger wire 0.2mm on small tapered spools - I don't have a wisker so to despool I sit it small end up and place a plastic funnel on top, it needs to be large enough to go over the spool - the wire is fed up through the funnel spout and up over a wire guide then down to the coil winder, the wire is trapped between the funnel and the edge of the spool - the weight of the funnel is enough to keep the wire from dropping to the bottom of the spool but not enough to stop it from being drawn off, a support on a stand keeps the funnel spout upright otherwise it may fall sideways off the spool.

The guys that wind guitar pickups use anything from full blown commercial winders to just a cordless drill with hand guided wire, wire can be as small as 0.05mm with up to 10,000 turns, a google image search brings up all sorts of diy machines.

If you have the time to post a pic I would appreciate it, despoolers can be quite complex.

Stustoys
18th Dec 2019, 10:00 AM
Ok the brake is there but I don't have to arm that controls the brake sorry.

Hards2u
18th Dec 2019, 07:46 PM
Ok the brake is there but I don't have to arm that controls the brake sorry.
thats an interesting setup. not sure how it fits but its the same green as mine.

Hards2u
18th Dec 2019, 08:15 PM
thats an interesting setup. not sure how it fits but its the same green as mine.How does this work.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191218/6545b2479436cb34bde87b2b90e9d7c6.jpg

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Stustoys
19th Dec 2019, 09:47 PM
not sure how it fits but its the same green as mine.
Its not to much of a stretch to assume they came from the same factory. There were certainly some machines there like yours. One year most of the winding machines were painted the same green. Its possible they may even have been used together, but its so long ago I can't say for sure.

Your large drum looks to be for the setup up we were talking about above where the wire comes off the end of the reel.

Hards2u
20th Dec 2019, 07:41 AM
Its not to much of a stretch to assume they came from the same factory. There were certainly some machines there like yours. One year most of the winding machines were painted the same green. Its possible they may even have been used together, but its so long ago I can't say for sure.

Your large drum looks to be for the setup up we were talking about above where the wire comes off the end of the reel.Yes no patent problems years ago everyone duplicated each other.
So is the despooler worth having as it is up for sale but the conversation makes me think there are better ways than just a tin with a hole in the top.

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Stustoys
20th Dec 2019, 08:55 PM
Yes no patent problems years ago everyone duplicated each other.
What I meant was, the company I used to work for wound a lot of transformers. One year they chose to paint most of their winding machines green. perhaps they both came from there.



So is the despooler worth having as it is up for sale but the conversation makes me think there are better ways than just a tin with a hole in the top.
That despooler looks pretty damn big to me.(as far as winding magnetos goes)

Hards2u
20th Dec 2019, 09:26 PM
What I meant was, the company I used to work for wound a lot of transformers. One year they chose to paint most of their winding machines green. perhaps they both came from there.



That despooler looks pretty damn big to me.(as far as winding magnetos goes)Yes I think I will give it a miss, it looks to big to be usfell. But postage is my killer aswell.


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