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View Full Version : A 2.2Kw VFD for $100



simonl
13th Aug 2019, 10:16 PM
Hi all,

After sharing a VFD between two milling machines for too long it was time to pull the trigger on a dedicated VFD for my Pacific mill. It's been a while since I bought a VFD. All my previous VFD purchases have been Huanyang brands and I have only ever had good experiences with them. They tend to get a bad wrap on some forums (in fact some US forums have banned the discussion of these) but they do what I want them to do. Anyway, to my surprise there are now VFD's on ebay that are even cheaper than the Huanyang. One such brand is Isacon, in fact they may all be this brand but it's difficult to know. There have been discussions on this forum and elsewhere regarding Isacon VFD's with mixed reviews.

One thing to notice is that these cheaper VFd's seem to have less flexibility compared to HY equivalent. In fact they only have about half the number of parameters available for programming. This may not be a massive contraint if your requirements are rather straight forward such as would be the case on a lathe, mill or SG etc. Quality of internal components such as capacitors may also be compromised but who would know?

One concern I did have regarding these cheaper VFD's is that there seems to be no way of adjusting the carrier frequency. They seem to do everything else I need. The reason this concerns me is that when I was setting up my very first HY VFD, it took me some mucking around with this parameter before I managed to get the motor to run quietly without a noticable whine. SO I figured it's probably a nice parameter to be able to control.

I then came across this ebay offering.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-2KW-3HP-VFD-INVERTER-220V-1-OR-3-PHASE-VARIABLE-SPEED-DRIVE-VSD-DRIVE-INVERTER/321128814815?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

It's definately not a huanyang as the electrical schematic is drawn slightly different eventhough the pinouts seem to be the same. However, it does claim to have a selectable carrier frequency. So, for around the $100 delivered I bought one.

Hopefully I should have it at least roughed in, programmed and tested in a couple of weeks so I can report on my findings. Long term reliability will remain to be seen.

Simon

Vernonv
14th Aug 2019, 10:29 AM
I use one of them (well it looks exactly the same) for my vehicle hoist.
Does the job, but doesn't get a lot of use. It was installed about 8-12 months ago.

If I remember correctly the "overload current" setting (or something like that) was set for a smaller capacity VFD and would cause the VFD to cut out when the load hit that point. I increased the setting to what I thought it should have been for this VFD and haven't had an issue since.

OxxAndBert
14th Aug 2019, 11:08 AM
Definitely an attractive price for an application that doesn't need all the bells and whistles.
Following with interest.

Steve

BobL
14th Aug 2019, 11:14 AM
Whatever you buy make sure you get to see the manual before hand to make sure you can read and understand it. Over in the woodies forum we've seen a couple of members caught out with 2 page manuals written in chinglese.

I've upgraded 3 of my machines (MW lathe, WW lathe and DP) for HY's to Powtrans and installed 2 powtrans on my small mill. For $20-$30 more than the superbudget end VFDs you get a fully featured industrial strength VFD with a decent manual and excellent factory support. To Fund these I've been selling off the HY's for half price so it has not been an expensive exercise.

Com_VC
14th Aug 2019, 06:47 PM
I don't think they allow vector control though, i'd probably pay the little bit extra it costs. Though if you plan to run it at a fixed frequency or don't plan to run very low speeds it probably won't matter too much.

simonl
14th Aug 2019, 07:35 PM
Thanks for the info guys.

It definately won't have vector control but my experience has been that I have not needed it... yet. My first VFD project was my geared head mill. I replaced the 2 HP single phase motor with a 3HP 3 phase. Since the motor was a bit over the top power wise (for the rigidity of the machine) I have not noticed any loss of power at lower frequency. In fact even at 5Hz, which I use as a jog function, I still cannot stall the motor with my hand in the lower gear selection.

The pacific mill has infinately variable speed control with the cone pulley CV setup and it works nicely so I intend to run the mill at 50Hz. No need to vary the frequency for day to day use unless I want to run it as some weird or wonderful speed, even so, it won't be a huge variation from the 50Hz either way.

All I really need is the usual ramp up speed, coasting stop and jog.

If I'm seriously not happy with it then my backup plan is to send it onto my shaper and just purchase a "genuine" HY for the mill.

WRT the manual, if it's the same PD setup as the Isacon then it's not a biggie as I have google searched and found a manual of similar "quality" as the HY manual.

Will soon find out. I'm quite curious what $100 and half the price of a HY gets you.

Simon

shedhappens
16th Aug 2019, 01:52 PM
industrial strength VFD with a decent manual and excellent factory support.

I could not get customer support from powtran, they ignored my email requests for help.
What email address do you use Bob?

Simon I bought 3 x 2.2kw Isacon VFD's for 86 bucks each delivered from ebay, they seem to work well for me.
I like the minimalist manual supplied with them also, the powtran manual does my head in as it is alien tech to me.
I use one for the 1 1/2 hp 6 pole motor on my little mill and one for a 2,2kw spindle motor that goes to 400hz
the other is waiting to be used elsewhere but i have used it on occasions.

cheers, shed

BobL
16th Aug 2019, 02:12 PM
I could not get customer support from powtran, they ignored my email requests for help.
What email address do you use Bob?
[email protected] mark it for attention to Nicole.

shedhappens
16th Aug 2019, 02:49 PM
[email protected] mark it for attention to Nicole.

:2tsup:

simonl
22nd Aug 2019, 07:58 PM
The VFD arrived the other day. It's about 1/2 the size of a comparable wattage Huanyang VFD so it's compact!

The instructions are no better and no worse than the instructions you get with a huanyang. For the life of me I could not find how to set the carrier frequency so I messaged the seller. After he contacted his supplier he informed me that the "carrier frequency is pre-set for optimised performance at 6Hz".

OK. so at least he gave me an answer. I suggested he change his wording in the ebay add to reflect this. I am yet to wire this in but I suspect that for my intended intermittent use it will be fine.

No sure when I will wire it up but I will report back here when I do.

Simon

Hards2u
29th Aug 2019, 10:06 AM
How did you go with the eBay vfd, I'm thinking of getting my first and really can't go past the cost, just curios about what your doing. Brett.

simonl
29th Aug 2019, 10:00 PM
Hi there,

To be honest I have not had a chance to play with it yet.

I'm sorry it's taking so long but time is not on my side atm.

I may see if I can rough it in and set up some parameters just to test the thing and report back.

Maybe on the weekend.

Simon

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simonl
5th Oct 2019, 05:15 PM
Hi all,

Updating from my last post, I have recently had a chance to hardwire, configure and play with this Isacon (Cheap) VFD.

In short, it works OK. It runs the 3 HP spindle motor on my bridgeport clone no problems (albeit under no load) It ramps up and ramps down exactly how you program it just fine. I even accidently ran it without the motor connected, and it survived, although I wouldn't try that too often!

The configuration to my mill is (as far as the VFD is concerned) pretty straight forward, nothing fancy. A soft start (ramp up time of a few seconds) forward only (no reverse) and a coasting stop (no ramp down) and constant 50 Hz with no fancy variable speed (I let the CV mechanical speed control on the mill do that). Oh and JOG but more on that later.

First up, the instructions albeit in English are very basic and light on. They were not intuitive and if you bought one of these units as your very first VFD instalment then it would be a little confusing. Even a proper Huan Yang inverter can be a bit of a challenge if it's your first but these are just that little more confusing. The description for each of the parameters is not as in-depth.

The other thing I am yet to sort out is the JOG function. Personally I like a JOG function on a mill and lathe especially one run by a VFD because you can program the JOG to run at say 5 Hz and use it to check tool clearences etc. with the cutter or workpiece running very slow prior to pushing the RUN button.

I have made allowances in my wiring for such a facility. One of the connections inside the VFD is labelled "Multispeed D1/JOG which I have assumed will fit the bill. Be buggered if I can program the VFD to reccognise this and work. According to the cicuit diagram, connecting the internal command connections GND to D1/JOG should run the VFD at a pre-programmed speed.

Anyway that's so far the only issue I have with it. I'm running out of things to check/test but I'm still optimistic that it's a fault of mine and not the VFD.

The VFD setup on my mill will run two motors, the spindle motor and the coolant pump. I may choose to run the spindle pump without coolant or with and I may even choose to run the coolant pump without the spindle. To do this I have kept the original contactors. There are two 4 pole and a larger 5 pole contractor.

By using the 4th pole to create a feedback loop you can make them a latching relay. Breaking the circuit to the relay via a NC mom off switch turns them off.

In order to switch the VFD on and off, I have connected two smaller relays. They are switched on when the contactor are switched and they run the signal RUN and STOP commands to the VFD. These two smaller relays are connected in parallel, which means that as long as at least one motor is still running, the VFD will still be providing 3 phase power to the supply. This means that I can turn on either the spindle motor or coolant pump on and or off in any sequence and the VFD will switch on with the first motor and only switch off when the last motor is turned off, regardless of the sequence.

The only down side is that I cannot have a rampdown or decelerating stop on the VFD because once you turn off the last motor, they are isolated from the VFD. A decelerating stop would mean the VFD would be operating with no motor connected during that time.

Also, if you get into the nitty griity of the setup you will see that when you turn off the last motor, the small but finite amount of reaction time between the contactor and relay means that strictly speaking the VFD is disconnected from the motor for probably a millisecond before being turned off. I have been running a similar setup on my surface grinder and so far after about 5 years it's still going well, never had an error or fault code. Whether it affects the logevity of the VFD is yet to be determined I guess.

Pic 1. The wiring setup. I have used the original wiring board and connectors. It will mount back inside the rear of the machine.

Pic 2. The control panel that screws at the front of the machine. Those buttons are all MOM push buttons with both NO and NC connectors. The middle switch (power feed) will be used (and re-labeled) for the JOG function if I can get it running.

Hope some people find this of interest. I will provide a further update when appropriate.

Simon
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191005/6accc156aafdaeb365e66a2c7b3556d6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191005/1675967935d19d008a11bb4a9c8c21ce.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191005/bf7ca7f092ca8e4b77b306b7a8b19005.jpg

simonl
9th Oct 2019, 07:46 PM
Done some more work with this.

Turns out I couldn't find a way to run this at one fixed frequency (50hz) AND set a separate JOG frequency. Of say 5 Hz.

While I don't really need infinitely variable speed control via the VFD, I decided to try something a little different.

I set up a rotary switch and three multi turn trim pots to allow me three different fixed speeds. The three fixed speeds are adjustable via these trim pots housed in the switch box at the front of the machine.

The VFD manual states that a POT value of between 1 - 5K is needed. Since my circuit has 3 in parallel I opted for 10K POTS so the VFD sees a POT value of around 3K3.

Never taken this approach before so was keen to test it before committing to the circuit permanently.

Result, is that it works ok. I can even change speeds while the motor is running. I wasn't sure if the VFD would have a hissy fit given the momentary break in the circuit changing from one trim POT to the next but seems fine.

Only issue is changing from a faster frequency to a lower ie 75 Hz to 50 Hz or 50 Hz to 5 Hz. It throws up an error code.

I think it may be from an over voltage generated from the motor being temporarily overspeed once a lower frequency is selected.

I will play with the deceleration times and see if i can program that issue away.

Speed 1 will be around 5 Hz. JOG function
Speed 2 50Hz
Speed 3 75hz.

In use, 99% will use 50hz and I will adjust the speed via the CV in the head and read off the speed from the mechanical speed display disc.

This mill is supposed to have a max speed of around 4200 rpm, however I think the CV belt is a little short, restricting my max speed to around 3700. That's probably plenty for me but just in case I need some extra speed for aluminium work and/or small cutters, I can select 75 Hz and then just multiply the displayed speed by 1.5.

I may rig up a digital speed readout one day but can't see a need really.

Really just a matter of screwing the circuit panel inside the back of the machine and attaching the wires now.

Getting closer to the end...

Pics show the frequency selection switch on front panel. The single mom switch above will be the JOG button. It's the same as the RUN switch on the left but it won't latch the relay or the VFD RUN command.

I'll Dymo a JOG label for that middle switch. Not because I'll forget but just because I like things labelled! [emoji106]

Last pic is my frequency selection circuit, for anyone interested..

Simon

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191009/9d61deb2eb2a1f1e34eba4a808a85a8e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191009/d9f4290a4adf73defc5028926dc2c559.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191009/7bd562ad53d39c25085c499c0e0acb1c.jpg

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BobL
9th Oct 2019, 08:21 PM
Does your VFD have multispeed capability, usually any of DI1 thru DI6 or DI8 can be programmed to any specific frequency.

On my dust collector I have mine set to use one of 3 speeds via a single rotary switch - 40-50-60Hz. The speed changes are handles at accelerations that can be programmed to be slow enough so that no errors result.
Then a single standard frequency control pot works whichever multispeed is selected.

I did a WIP in the woodies forum on this fit.
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f271/vfd-install-summaries-213878/13#post2093304

simonl
10th Oct 2019, 08:37 AM
Hi Bob,

This particular VFD has multisegment speeds 0 through to 7 so it does but I cannot find the correct parameter to allow selction of those. There are inputs called "Multispeed input" and marked D0, D1, D2. I'm now wondering whether these form a 3 bit digital input for speeds 0 to 7?

The only other issue is how to tell the VFD you are using those inputs. pn 19 is where you select what input for multispeed selection but it does not mention the D0 - D2 or give an option of a digital input.

Certainly if I can nut out the multisegment speed setup, that would be much easier and simpler.

The first pic is the pinouts of the VFD and the second pic is pn 19 which shows how to choose the speed selection.

Clearly I set pn 3 to 7

But that's all I got so far. I'm pretty sure I've tried all combinations and couldn't get it working but with fresh eyes I may have another look.

Simon
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191009/89fdddf7e82f1327b3b22b713fd9c269.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191009/1ec285cd2e134943a78390b199d2ad60.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191009/8c5fd588f5ce739231ec68fdea405072.jpg

simonl
10th Oct 2019, 12:02 PM
Hi Bob,

Yep I worked it out. Not sure what I did wrong last time, maybe combination of incorrect wiring and programming.

But for the sake of anyone else programming an ISACON A2 VFD, the inputs D0, D1, D2 are binary inputs. Obviously D0 being the least significant bit.

The binary work made up of these 3 inputs pulled to ground (GND) makes the selection of multispeed selection S1 to S7, although that's only 7 speeds and not 8!

Pn 20 through to 26 set the frequencies for these speeds.

Pn 19 needs to be set to 2. In the manual this is called "panel button", which does not make sense but it works.

Thanks for prompting me to recheck that. It makes the setup even simpler (and better)

Simon




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BobL
10th Oct 2019, 12:21 PM
Thanks for prompting me to recheck that. It makes the setup even simpler (and better)

Simon

Good to hear you have it sorted.
You can now still make use of the two pots in coarse and fine mode/configuration.
I haven't used this capability much on the lathe but am using it on my coffee machine :)

simonl
10th Oct 2019, 12:40 PM
Your coffee machine thread is very technical! I really like your passion for coffee!

I just did some more experimenting.

Given that D0 to D2 are essentially active low, I figured that they must be pulled high internally so as not to "float" between both digital states. Turns out that's not the case.

When I ran the VFD without any of those inputs pulled low, I got random frequency selections, mostly around the 50hz area. At first I thought it corresponded to a particular parameter setting but I changed all frequency settings so none represented 50 Hz and it still gave a 50hz output!

I'm not going to use those trim POTS. I'll use a 3 pole rotary switch and use it to set up the sequence of inputs to satisfy the D0 - D2 speeds.

Still using 3 wires so it's not too much of a modification.

Feel like I'm finally getting this VFD sorted out.

Simon




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wunoff
12th Oct 2019, 04:58 PM
Great posts Simon, thank you for sharing!

I am using the same vfd on my bridgeport clone. I put in on about 8 months ago and have unfortunately done only about 15 minutes machining with it, but couldn't be happier for the price! I don't have your electronics knowledge so my setup is very basic, but you've got me thinking it's time to change my setup, cheers :U

simonl
12th Oct 2019, 05:39 PM
Hi wunoff,

There's nothing wrong with simple.

KISS principle works well!

I'm getting close to having this finished which excites me. I've been running this mill off the VFD from another mill which was a PITA but it got me out of trouble.

I've found this particular VFD confusing to program, mainly because the instructions are a bit light on. There are also quite a few features missing on these compared to a HuanYang. Most are neither here nor there and some I have had to work around.

Bottom line is that these VFDs are not necessarily a better buy, their firmware is not as sofisticated as the HY's. Yes they are a lot cheaper BUT it's for a good reason.

If you don't need these missing features (compared to a HY) then they may be a better buy but it is still yet to be seen if the actual build quality is as good. That may also have taken a hit in order to be half the price. Also bare in mind that many people would not even touch a HY because to some they are considered cheap POS too.

Time will tell how long it lasts but it sounds like you are happy with yours.

I have managed to upset mine a few times during setup and playing around trying to find the correct wiring and parameter setup. I've had erroneous outputs and some error codes. I'm surprised I haven't let the magic smoke out yet! The same experimenting on a HY would not do that. HY seem a little more forgiving if exposed to the same environment.

I glad your finding some interest tf i n this thread.

Simon







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wunoff
12th Oct 2019, 05:56 PM
Cheers Simon :2tsup:

When I purchased mine I actually thought it was a HY and up until reading your posts I still thought that (I'm not the brightest bear in the woods sometimes :doh:), anyway I checked it out and it's the same as yours.

I am running a HY on my lathe and have been for 3 years or so and its been ok, though I don't use it much.

When hooking up the Isacon I noticed the difference between the two brands and the settings. Time will tell if it's as good :U

BobL
12th Oct 2019, 06:03 PM
I found this particular VFD confusing to program, mainly because the instructions are a bit light on.

This is a problem for (but not restricted to) many budget end VFDs. My recommendation is not to buy a VFD unless you can read and sort of understand the manual.

The HY manuals have had some errors but at least they are readable. The Powtran manuals are very good accurate/detailed and understandable in terms of content - my one major gripe with the manuals for the 130/160 are that the manuals are small and the font size makes them difficult to read. The manuals for the Powtran PI9130 etc series are excellent. The other manual I have had dealings with is the Honeywell (it comes with 2 manuals) which is highly readable with many examples and setups explained in detail but these are not cheap VFDs.

Understanding the manual is not just a problem for cheap VFDs. The 1/2HP Altivar VFD I put on my coffee machine pump motor is one such beast. It's a well made VFD but has no external motor controls so it has to be programmed and then driven remotely. It has a 84 page manual with lots of detail but does not use parameter numbers instead every parameter has an up to 4 letter name or code generated by 4 x 7 segment LEDs - clear as mud, and I found myself constantly referring back to the manual to remind myself what you are looking for. After a long while I did get used to it but it sure was frustrating if you have been used to dealing with numbered parameters. If this VFD had been my first VFD I probably would have given up trying to come to grips with programming it.

simonl
14th Oct 2019, 01:06 PM
Well today I finished hardwiring in all the electrical work including the switch panel and control board.

Pretty happy with the way it's all turned out. Couple of things to iron out;

Not sure if I have the coolant pump running the correct direction. I won't really know until I try to pump coolant and at this stage the coolant reservoir in the base is empty. I may just take the coolant pump out and remove the bottom cover to see what direction it's running. It's a small thing.

I ran the wiring using the machines original wiring loom and connector. This allows me to disconnect all electrics from the head whenever I need to remove the head or ram.

I have also ironed out any error codes generated when changing frequencies with the rotary switch.

Cheers.

Next up I need to make a quill handle and a fine feed handle.... but that won't be in this section...

Simonhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191014/d2e50ab7baf1b8d202070daf2f8e1a1e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191014/a992377a5a4f66f8a66695dc48f73ab6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191014/9bd90e00c264ddcdbb1e53d3ba88e3fa.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191014/7529236fd8fb899188b04a85fda503c2.jpg

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