PDA

View Full Version : 15amp mig welder plug to 10amp wall socket



Specialized29er
18th Apr 2018, 03:42 AM
Looking at a new Mig Bosswelder and I see it only comes with a 15amp plug, wondering why it would have a 15 amp plug and are adaptors available to convert 15amps to 10amps.

Michael G
18th Apr 2018, 08:10 AM
A 15A circuit (which should be behind a 15A socket) should have a higher current rated breaker/ fuse and depending on length of run etc, may have larger cables to prevent the cables overheating. If you were to use the welder in a way that the current draw would always be low then in theory, it could run happily on a 10A circuit, but it has been designed to draw up to 15A, so it must have a circuit to suit.
Adaptors are not available. I'm not sure whether they are 'illegal' as such, but I'm pretty sure that if you put in an insurance claim for a fire and the insurance company found out that you had a 15A device plugged into a 10A socket, they would not pay out.

Your only options are to either get a 15A circuit put in by a sparky or get a welder that only draws 10A.

Michael

BobL
18th Apr 2018, 08:17 AM
It's a Welder with built in random exercise program.
When you use it on a 10A GPO you will have to walk up and down to your circuit breaker box to reset the breaker.

BobL
18th Apr 2018, 08:28 AM
Adaptors are not available. I'm not sure whether they are 'illegal' as such, but I'm pretty sure that if you put in an insurance claim for a fire and the insurance company found out that you had a 15A device plugged into a 10A socket, they would not pay out.


I don't believe they are illegal as such but as you say, if something goes pear shaped the onus would be squarely on you to prove that it was being used in a safe manner. When your shed, your house and your neighbours house are smouldering piles of ashes that is going to be somewhat difficult. The safest manner is not to use it this way. The company that supplies the adapter would also have some liability - I'm surprised they'd do that.

If you were going to use one with an adapter it would be wise to make sure nothing else was already running or likely to start running anywhere else on that 10A circuit.

RustyArc
18th Apr 2018, 09:37 AM
Jaycar flog an adaptor, but it has a 10A breaker incorporated into it, which would likely trip like crazy - more so than a normal 10A GPO circuit, as it typically has a 16A or larger breaker.

If your house wiring is up to scratch, the worst case outcome of plugging a 15A device into a 10A socket using a non-standard adaptor should just be nuisance tripping - same as if you plugged 2 2400W fan heaters into the same circuit. However, as mentioned, the downside of not-so-great wiring is the possibility of melting, smoke or fire.

Specialized29er
18th Apr 2018, 09:19 PM
Thanks guys, it looks as if I'll be buying another 10amp welder.

Grahame Collins
18th Apr 2018, 11:25 PM
DISCLAIMER

No liability is accepted by UBeaut or the MetalWork Forum's administrators
or moderators for advice offered by members posting replies
or asking questions regarding electrical work.
We strongly advise contacting a Licensed Tradeperson for all electrical work.

WARNING

Information supplied within posts is not to be considered as detailed formal instructions to complete a task.
Members following such information do so at their own risk.

ADMINISTRATORS.

.RC.
19th Apr 2018, 07:39 AM
When I see that now you can buy four outlet GPO's for permanent installation in a premises, I think running one single 15 amp product off a single circuit is not going to hurt that much.

My shed 10amp circuit has the exact same circuit breaker as the 15 amp circuit. With 6 X 10 amp outlets on one circuit and 1 X 15 amp on the other. So it makes a mockery of the electrical "rules"

RustyArc
19th Apr 2018, 09:16 AM
So it makes a mockery of the electrical "rules"

Depends how you look at it. While people couch the argument in terms of safety, that really isn't the issue - the breaker on a circuit is sized to protect the cable - so a typical 10A GPO circuit is wired with 2.5mm2 cable, and gets a 16A breaker. A 15A circuit typically uses the same cable, and the same size breaker. That covers the safety side of things.

The real reason behind 15A plugs and all that is avoiding nuisance tripping - a 15A rated device is likely to be using much of the 15A (and more) all the time, whereas many devices on a 10A GPO circuit will be using a fraction of an amp, so it makes sense to have many on the one circuit, whereas putting two 15A-rated devices on one 15A circuit, if they're used at the same time (say a compressor and plasma cutter), is guaranteed to cause nuisance tripping, hence why a 15A circuit usually has a single GPO.

BobL
19th Apr 2018, 10:17 AM
Except for my compressor circuit, the 4 other 15A circuits in my shed have double 15A GPOs.
3 of these have either 2x15A, or 1x15 and 1x10A, machines connected up to them.
Its safe to have both machines turned on and even running, just not running at full load.
This is further controlled by what machines are connected to the GPOs, and monitored by V/I meters.

For example, my Welder/PC and wood Dust extractor (both are 15A machines) are on the same 15A GPO. I just don't operate the welder when the wood dust extractor is running and VV, especially because my welding booth has its own more efficient extractor that runs from a 10A circuit.

Like wise my Table saw (15A) and router (10A) are on a double 15A GPO, and my Wood BS and Linisher (both 15A and both on VFDs) likewise - as I said I can have both machines connected to the same GPO turned on, just not use them at the same time under full load.
It would be daft to have the TS and router running at the same time, but I do that occasionally with the BS and Linisher.

The 4th 15A circuit is a spare that I use occasionally for motor testing, Oh yeah and it occasionally runs a horse blanket washing machine located outside the shed!

The only machines that I see pulling >10A under load are the compressor, welder/PC and TS. Apart from the motor testing circuit, in the 7 years I have had this setup I have yet to trip the 15A breakers because of having 2 machines on the same double 15A GPO. The wood dust extractor draws between ~9A and BS and Linisher usually less than 6A.

I realize not everyone is prepared to go to these lengths but it's one way of staying a bit safer and not constantly plug/unplug machines from 15A GPOs which can lead to other problems.

eskimo
21st Apr 2018, 11:42 AM
if you are thinking about upgrading a 10amp circuit to 15 think about getting a 20amp outlet with appropriate wiring.

that way if you ever upgrade your welder to something decent you'll be ready!.
You can still use 10amp and 15amp plugs on a 20amp circuit.

A 15amp circuit accepts larger flat earth pin. The active and N are same size as 10amp. A 20amp has bigger flat pins all round.

azzrock
26th Apr 2018, 02:01 AM
its defiantly not recommended.
for example at my work when they get a new welder
we cut the 15 amp plug of it and fit a 10 amp.
then tag it for electrical safety. makes me laugh.

Grahame Collins
26th Apr 2018, 02:13 AM
its defiantly not recommended.
for example at my work when they get a new welder
we cut the 15 amp plug of it and fit a 10 amp.
then tag it for electrical safety. makes me laugh.

Good luck with claiming a warranty on that, if anything should ever go wrong.

China
26th Apr 2018, 03:27 AM
I don't what the laws in Vic are in South Australia if you did that you would be risking a$50,000 fine, safe work SA would most likely shut you down until they completed a safety audit
and they would would also levy a fine

azzrock
26th Apr 2018, 04:24 AM
yah warranty . quite often they wouldn't last that long.

azzrock
26th Apr 2018, 04:27 AM
work cover never come a made made checks like that .
when ever they were there thay had blinkers on

NedsHead
26th Apr 2018, 01:13 PM
Note the earth pin on the right of this double adapter, This is my lazy, last minute solution to the 15A problem, it's been going strong for 3 years now
373031

Com_VC
26th Apr 2018, 09:47 PM
When it comes time for warranty refit a 15a plug back on. :D

Grahame Collins
26th Apr 2018, 10:16 PM
They are already awake to that. The welders ( and other tools) are fitted with a molded plug /cable. My wife worked at an electrical repair agents shop a few years back. Many a warranty claim was knocked back as the customer had changed a plug or filed an earth pin.

They did not have a leg to stand on.

Those who were still too dumb and made a fuss were referred on to the electrical worker's board for a please explain.

Grahame

China
26th Apr 2018, 10:17 PM
Very different story in SA, sounds like they need a kick up Backside in VIC

Com_VC
26th Apr 2018, 10:43 PM
What happens if a plug is damaged or lead gets a cut in it and needs to be shortened. It's quite common in industry.


They are already awake to that. The welders ( and other tools) are fitted with a molded plug /cable. My wife worked at an electrical repair agents shop a few years back. Many a warranty claim was knocked back as the customer had changed a plug or filed an earth pin.

They did not have a leg to stand on.

Those who were still too dumb and made a fuss were referred on to the electrical worker's board for a please explain.

Grahame

BobL
26th Apr 2018, 11:13 PM
What happens if a plug is damaged or lead gets a cut in it and needs to be shortened. It's quite common in industry.

Is this what you mean?

A few years back SWMBO purchase a water feature pump with a 6m long black plastic mains lead. I installed a weatherproof GPO on the side of the house and ran the lead for the pump from there 2.4 m across the veranda - through the leafless branches of a small tree and down into the water feature. A few months later when there were heaps of leaves and shoot sprouting out some of the tree branches needed pruning so I found a chainsaw (at last count I think there are 9 of them in the shed) with fuel in it and started hacking into the tree. There was a brief flash and then I remembered DANG! the mains lead.

MasterSpoon
26th Apr 2018, 11:46 PM
*** Disclaimer - any information provided should be viewed as for entertainment purposes only and should not be used as replacement for advice from a licensed electrician ***

Plenty of options to use a 15 amp machine into a 10 amp wall socket, people do it all the time for caravans
eg https://www.campsmart.net.au/15a-to-10a-converter-portable-rcd-for-caravans-and

If you wanted to go cheaper go to your electrical supply shop, get a clipsal 15 amp socket, 10 amp plug and some 15amp cable ( I think it's 2.5mm ? just look at what wire is spec'd on the 15 amp socket). The wire will be tight on the 10amp plug but it's doable.

While it's not ideal and fitting a dedicated 15 amp circuit would be better, one of those cables will get you out of trouble in a pinch. You might end up tripping the power running the machine at full tilt but a 15 amp machine is probably going to be more powerful then a 10 amp machine.

So if your choice is say a 10amp plug, 100 amp welder
https://www.bunnings.com.au/bossweld-100-amp-m100-gasless-mig-inverter-welder_p6380043

vs 15 amp plug, 150 amp welder
https://www.bunnings.com.au/bossweld-150-amp-m150-gas-gasless-mig-inverter-welder_p6380044

You can always run the 150 amp machine at 100 amps, will even have a better duty cycle then the 100amp machine. But you can not run a 100amp machine at 150 amps.
Limit what else you run on the same circuit and you might not even have any troubles.

What people often forget is what is the feed wire up to the GPO. I have a single phase CigWeld 250 amp Mig welder, when I first got it I took it to a friends place to help me set it up. He worked out for different amp settings what wire feed I should run. Made me a bit of a chart to help me get started. I took it home, plugged it in and tried to weld on those settings and worked nothing like what I thought the Mig should. I found I had to crank the wire speed right up from what he suggested to get a decent weld. His feed lines to the house are small, old fuse box ect. Mine is new feed in lines, 16mm2 from the connection point to the fuse box. 10mm2 from the fuse box to the sub board in the shed, not sure what the final run to the GPO is but not undersized at least. Effectively at his house it might have been a 180amp welder and at mine it was a 250amp welder.

BobL
27th Apr 2018, 08:02 AM
Plenty of options to use a 15 amp machine into a 10 amp wall socket, people do it all the time for caravans
eg https://www.campsmart.net.au/15a-to-10a-converter-portable-rcd-for-caravans-and
I have a home made version of this I use for our van
The van is parked and packed/unpacked on the front drive.
There's only a 10A GPO on the front veranda so I use the converter.


If you wanted to go cheaper go to your electrical supply shop, get a clipsal 15 amp socket, 10 amp plug and some 15amp cable ( I think it's 2.5mm ? just look at what wire is spec'd on the 15 amp socket). The wire will be tight on the 10amp plug but it's doable.
Have several of these - one includes a V/I panel meter in line - very useful for all sorts of monitoring.
You're right, it's hard enough to fit 2.5mm^2 wire to a 15A plug/socket and 10A is even harder.

Otherwise all my 15A machines are all plugged into 15A GPOs.

azzrock
27th Apr 2018, 03:41 PM
Another thing to think of . Is the welder all ways been driven full tilt. How much does it draw when welding..

RustyArc
27th Apr 2018, 09:35 PM
My BOC Smootharc 130 has a 10A plug, and that machine's amperage is good for most 3.2mm rods, so by that logic, a 150A or 200A welder run at 130A or less should be OK on a 10A circuit, unless you really start to push the duty cycle.

BobL
30th Apr 2018, 12:13 AM
While rattling around in the electrical cupboard this afternoon I found a spare V/I meter and the most useful thing I did today was add that meter to the 10A plug to 15A socket converter with the built in 10A RCBO on it that I use for setting up the van on the front driveway .

373045

The yellow HD cord comes from a 6 way HD expander board I found in a rubbish bin at a camping group - it looked like the expander board itself wasn't HD enough to withstand being run over by a vehicle. Cord was alright though.

Must put some sort of cover over the RCBO switch