Wanted Hercus 3A T&C manual

[KBs PensNmore]

Hi, I'm looking for a manual on the Hercus 3A tool and cutter grinder, can be a photocopied version or on a disc.
Happy to pay reasonable price for it.
Kryn

[lamestllama]

I have sent you an electronic version of the manual.

[KBs PensNmore]

Thanks Eric.:2tsup:
Kryn

[pmbul]

Hi,

As per the quest below, I just acquired a 3a and I am looking for a copy of a manual if available.

Happy to pay.

Thanks

Phil

[old1955]

Welcome to the forum Phil.

[Swarfmaker1]

Hi Guys, Is the electronic Hercus 3A manual available? I have just acquired a machine.

Cheers,
Peter.

[nadroj]

I'd like that too, please.

Jordan

[Swarfmaker1]

I'm prepared to buy it if anyone knows where either a physical copy or electronic copy exists.

[KBs PensNmore]

I thought I had a copy of the manuel, but it turns out it was only one sheet with details of bearings wheels etc.
Maybe Eric will come on and download the copy for all of us.
Kryn

[Swarfmaker1]

Thanks Kryn,

I know there's a small amount of detail at lathes.co.uk and several websites where owners have set them up for display. I have a fair idea what all the bits and bobs are for but it would be nice to know particular setups for certain tools .

Peter.

[OxxAndBert]

The Clarkson T&C grinder manuals are readily available and have details of different setups - worth a look if you haven’t already seen them.

Steve

[lamestllama]

Thanks Kryn,

I know there's a small amount of detail at lathes.co.uk and several websites where owners have set them up for display. I have a fair idea what all the bits and bobs are for but it would be nice to know particular setups for certain tools .

Peter.

Peter,

The manual does not have any setups. But here it is.384725.

Eric

[Swarfmaker1]

Eric,
Thanks, that's what I was looking for. I can infer setups from other sources but it's good to have this document for the technical detail such as the wheel head construction etc. I note my machine has a large handwheel driving the rack and pinion for X axis. The inverted V ways from what I see are plain. It's very grubby at the moment but in fair condition. There are two work heads , one with dead centres and the other with threaded spindle nose for lathe chucks. I seem to have a spare tailstock which which does not fit the table. The usual internal grinding spindle is present along with the swiveling vice.

I am amazed at the little footprint the machine has but quite heavy so most of the mass is in the pedestal.

Anyhow it will clean up nicely and I may post pictures when I get around to it.

Cheers,
Peter.

[lamestllama]

Peter

The order of these Hercus T&C grinders from oldest to youngest is #3, #3A then #1. The V ways on the #3A and on the #1 are both identical. I have owned both machines at the same time and compared them closely. They are actually ball ways. There are 38 off ½" steel balls 19 in each way which is why the table runs so easily on both these machines. This is quite different from the #3 which just had plain cast iron V ways. I think what you have is actually a #3 and not a 3A. Show us a photo and we can tell. There are a number of owners of each.

Eric




Eric,
Thanks, that's what I was looking for. I can infer setups from other sources but it's good to have this document for the technical detail such as the wheel head construction etc. I note my machine has a large handwheel driving the rack and pinion for X axis. The inverted V ways from what I see are plain. It's very grubby at the moment but in fair condition. There are two work heads , one with dead centres and the other with threaded spindle nose for lathe chucks. I seem to have a spare tailstock which which does not fit the table. The usual internal grinding spindle is present along with the swiveling vice.

I am amazed at the little footprint the machine has but quite heavy so most of the mass is in the pedestal.

Anyhow it will clean up nicely and I may post pictures when I get around to it.

Cheers,
Peter.

[Swarfmaker1]

Eric,
Yes I confirm it's a No3 going by the pics at lathes.co.uk and the brochure. See photo attached.

Peter.

[lamestllama]

Eric,
Yes I confirm it's a No3 going by the pics at lathes.co.uk and the brochure. See photo attached.

Peter.

There is a brochure for the Hercus #1 T&C grinder that details a lot of setups here it is.

384992

[steamloco1954]

Hello Phil.
Tool and cutter info is hard to find, especially for a particular machine. A very good site to visit is Bedroom Workshop. It is run by a Clarkson fan and he has been collecting pics and stories on mods for years. Thru the grime you can pick up a lot of hints there. Youtube has a lot of videos of worth but you have to sort thru the fools to find it.
I suggest mastering one operation at a time and try to think ahead with tool holding. For my Clarkson I bought a ER32 collet chuck with a 25mm plain shank. it doubles with my milling collets but soon I'll buy some more. Very easy to adapt for indexing.
Give me a message if I can help.
Regards
Ol Goat.

[swarfless]

Hi Peter, if the vee-ways on your #3 are in good nick there's an easy transformation you can do. Mine were as new, it had been owned by the Airforce & I judge unused as every oil nipple had been pumped up with grease. Anyway the mod. is this: you buy two INA linear needle roller sets from CBC, for the table slideways, just the needle/cage assemblies, no raceways required, the total load bearing area is such the Hercus iron is not over-stressed. The needle rollers are in a double row in a nylon-looking cage which is supplied thinned down the middle for bending to conform to a vee. I THINK one caged set per side is enough for 1) adequate support 2) adequate table travel. I say this coz I do remember a dovetail slot each end for assembling into longer assemblies. I can check that in a few days (uncommonly busy), can't remember, having done this about 30 years ago. The only other things required are to shim the rack by the thickness (diameter) of the rollers .. I think 1.5 or 2mm. AND you'll need to slot the screw holes in the table keeps. That's it. Well not quite .. because table movement to the extent possible exposes the vee-ways it's necessary/desirable to make some table extensions (like shallow inverted trays) to protect them from grit. I also added a skirt front & back to keep grit out of the needle rollers. The conversion makes the grinder a delight to use, especially for cylindrical grinding & surface grinding. Mine has performed beyond its warranted ambit for 30 years & no sign of Brinelling the cast iron vee-ways despite a 1200 km truck tray journey simply locked for longitudinal travel. Sorry I can't provide part numbers etc, I haven't kept those records. You'll need to talk to CBC or failing that INA themselves. If you need them I can take some measurements in a few days time.
Trev

[Swarfmaker1]

There is a brochure for the Hercus #1 T&C grinder that details a lot of setups here it is.

384992

Eric,

Thanks for the brochure . It's excellent info on using the machine..

Regards,
Peter.

[Swarfmaker1]

Hi Trev,
Thanks for letting me know about this modification. I've been thinking about this and wondering if you have pictures and dimensions of the INA needle roller bearings you used. How long where your bearing sets? I've included a link below to something I found online. They don't appear to be expensive either. how did you fix these on? I'm assuming screwed down onto the male V way on the cross slide. How many did you use? Did you get full coverage of the vee way or just evenly spaced.

I think the X axis ways are in good shape on this machine but I can't say the same for the Y axis leadscrew. This machine has had a lot of work but is still very usable.

https://www.motionindustries.com/productDetail.jsp?sku=00093007

Regards,
Peter.


Hi Peter, if the vee-ways on your #3 are in good nick there's an easy transformation you can do. Mine were as new, it had been owned by the Airforce & I judge unused as every oil nipple had been pumped up with grease...

[lamestllama]

Hi Trev,
Thanks for letting me know about this modification. I've been thinking about this and wondering if you have pictures and dimensions of the INA needle roller bearings you used. How long where your bearing sets? I've included a link below to something I found online. They don't appear to be expensive either. how did you fix these on? I'm assuming screwed down onto the male V way on the cross slide. How many did you use? Did you get full coverage of the vee way or just evenly spaced.

I think the X axis ways are in good shape on this machine but I can't say the same for the Y axis leadscrew. This machine has had a lot of work but is still very usable.

https://www.motionindustries.com/productDetail.jsp?sku=00093007

Regards,
Peter.

Doesn't the Hercus #3 use one V way and one flat way so you need two different roller sizes to keep everything level?

[swarfless]

Hi Peter, sorry about the delay, I don't visit often. However the example you linked to appears to be similar to the ones I used. You'll need to verify that they can be 'clicked' together to form a longer assembly, but I also need to check the dimensions. I did take some measurements but seem to have mislaid the piece of paper recording them. However I can confirm the 2.5 mm roller diameter. I think the rollers were 12mm long. The needle roller assemblies are NOT attached to anything, they simply 'float' between the table & the knee. Over a long period (years) the caged assemblies may creep one way or the other but that is easily detected & corrected. I'll retake the measurements & try taking some snaps but give me a week or so, very busy at present. Just had another look at your link, my cage + roller assemblies were wider (obvious from the needle length). Unfortunately the recent fires near here prompted us to shed all our superfluous historical paperwork .. my old order books included, so I have no record of the purchase details. I'll be able to give you the assembled length of the cages but the joints are difficult to detect so I won't be able to tell you the individual section lengths. The length is such that with the table in mid stroke there is free space equal to quarter of the total table stroke each end, i.e. the cage is half the length of the table stroke (I think, will confirm).

Llama: two inverted vees.

Trev

[swarfless]

[QUOTE=swarfless;1964448]Hi Peter, sorry about the delay, I don't visit often. However the example you linked to appears to be similar to the ones I used. You'll need to verify that they can be 'clicked' together to form a longer assembly, but I also need to check the dimensions. I did take some measurements but seem to have mislaid the piece of paper recording them.

Hi Peter, private message sent.
Trev

[Swarfmaker1]

I can confirm my machine has twod inverte vees

[lamestllama]

Llama: two inverted vees.

Trev

That is a difference between the #3 and #3A then. The #3A definitely has one set of V and one set of flat. It complicates regrinding the slides a little.

[BAZ H]

Hope I've managed to upload Hercus 3A manual here. Baz394181.

[BAZ H]

394182