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familyguy
3rd Feb 2018, 11:03 AM
I hear that SA police are currently doing unannounced spot firearms audits - might be time to check that you don't have the odd round of ammo lying in the bottom of your cabinet, all guns with bolts open magazine removed and only you know where the keys are hidden, cabinet is compliant etc. - it wouldn't be good to have a red face over something so simple to get right.

.RC.
3rd Feb 2018, 12:45 PM
I wonder if that is legal. AFAIK in Qld they have to arrange time.

China
3rd Feb 2018, 02:13 PM
That is nothing new, SA Police have been doing this for 20 years.

Grahame Collins
3rd Feb 2018, 02:31 PM
To be sure,all you need to do is just go to the online weapons regulations for your state.They are not that hard to understand.
It is all pretty well laid out in our my state of Queensland, so I imagine it would be pretty much the same for the rest of states.
Keep yourself informed. Not knowing the regulations is not a defence.

Grahame

familyguy
3rd Feb 2018, 03:27 PM
The two officers doing my audit did not actually say this but from the conversation we had I gathered that they were reconciling their records with what is actually in the hands of owners, they had me down for two rifles that I sold over 20 yrs ago, they returned later in the day with a stat. dec. that I was required to complete and sign stating the dates and circumstances of the sale/s, I got the impression they were there only for compliance checking and record reconciliation and unless you are clearly breaking the law any anomalies would be reported to the firearms branch for followup by them.

China
3rd Feb 2018, 11:00 PM
The two officers would have been from the firearms branch and as you say the entire process is to keep records up to date and ensure compliance with the regulations. I'm surprised you are so miffed
by this, guessing you have not had your licence for too long.

NedsHead
3rd Feb 2018, 11:48 PM
all guns with bolts open magazine removed.

Is that what the legislation stipulates? guess I've been doing it wrong all this time, oops!:)

The registrar really is a joke though, they haven't a clue who owns what firearms and they refuse to tell how much this failure is costing tax payers, last released figures I heard were "somewhere between 10 million and 100 million dollars" lol, if it were any other department it would have been mocked by the media and abandoned years ago

Grahame Collins
4th Feb 2018, 12:09 AM
all guns with bolts open magazine removed

That ought to be interesting when they get to me, then. My muzzleloader has no bolt or magazine to remove.

In an audit a decade or so back they had me down as owning a 303 muzzleloader.

The clerical help was so poor they transposed one rifle on one line with the calibre of a rifle on another line.

Computers and online electronic reporting haven't helped then.

Same deal now, you fill out the permits to acquire and transfer documents and they still bugger the paperwork up even though it is computerised.

China
4th Feb 2018, 02:49 AM
I have the magazines removed although all my bolt actions are stored with the bolts closed and I have never been taken to task on this

.RC.
4th Feb 2018, 04:53 AM
I have the magazines removed although all my bolt actions are stored with the bolts closed and I have never been taken to task on this

Different states have different regulations.

In Qld, if it is possible bolts must be removed and stored separately. If it is not possible to easily remove the bolt the action has to have the trigger locked and then then locked in the safe. it is retarded I know, but then that is like most firearm laws.

Pretty sure the latest NFA it was agreed to change laws so you could only buy ammunition for firearms registered to you. Apparently borrowing a firearm has never happened in the history of the world.

familyguy
4th Feb 2018, 09:03 AM
I'm not in the least bit annoyed at the audit China, I'm actually pleased it went smoothly, no odd bits of ammo lying around - no need for them to check each weapon for safety. Once the audit started I was not allowed near the cabinet, one of the officers removed each weapon he was then meant to check if it was loaded or not and if so make it safe and then hand it to the other who checked it off the list they had. I just happen to store mine (apart from the pump .22) with bolts removed. The two officers were actually from the Sturt station one of them a rookie barely 6 months in uniform - I've had my license for around 40yrs.

China
4th Feb 2018, 02:56 PM
The officers may have been from Sturt, how ever they work no behalf of the Firearms branch. RC the regulations covering the the purchase of ammunition only for the Firearms you have registered have been in place nationally since the 1996 knee jerk laws were devised most jurisdictions have not bothered to enforce it.

NedsHead
4th Feb 2018, 03:18 PM
Good thing this thread prompted me to check the Victorian legislation regarding the storage of bolts separately from their actions, I never even considered something so silly would exist.

This is what I found on the Vic police website.

"(4) Any bolt or firing pin which is required to be
stored separately from the firearm it is a part of,
must be stored in the same manner as is required
for the storage of a firearm under a longarm
licence for a category A or B longarm."

Is it true, am I interpreting this correctly?, in Vic bolts and firing pins need to be stored separately??

Can I store the bolt with the ammunition?

familyguy
4th Feb 2018, 04:26 PM
I'm no legal expert but would interpret that as meaning "IF a bolt/firing pin etc needs to be or is removed from a weapon then it also needs to be stored under lock and key in a compliant cabinet". I can't see that is says that they must be removed. The only reason I remove the bolts is that IF I was to be burgled and IF the cabinet was broken in to then any thieves would be less inclined to take a gun with no bolt or magazine as it would be useless to them.

eskimo
5th Feb 2018, 09:31 AM
For SA. There is no requirement to store bolts and or magazines separately from firearm. Just make sure they dont have ammo in them!
Even a hand gun can have the magazine stored in the gun.
It is recommended that guns be secured when travelling. It is ones duty to ensure they dont go missing. If your car is bvroken into and firearm/s are not secured and are stolen you may guilty of an offence.
(even SAPOL's own advertising says that a hand gun should be stored in the locked glovebox when travelling (( if nowhere else is available))...hahahaha)

SAPOL have the right to roll up unannounced and do so. Anything related to firearms also give them the right to enter and search etc. Even suspicion of firearms related stuff also give them this right.

.RC.
5th Feb 2018, 09:43 AM
SAPOL have the right to roll up unannounced and do so. Anything related to firearms also give them the right to enter and search etc. Even suspicion of firearms related stuff also give them this right.

Probably but do you have to assist them. If the cabinet is locked do you have to open it? it is rather rude if they rock up unannounced and order a search.

While this did happen to me in Qld. I did pass and as it was the local policeman I did not have an issue. Be different if it was some unknowns.

eskimo
5th Feb 2018, 10:01 AM
but do you have to assist them. If the cabinet is locked do you have to open it? it is rather rude if they rock up unannounced and order a search.



I would...they act first and answer later. Probably have your licensed suspended meaning you cant be in possession of firearms, which will result in your safe being broken open/removed or whatever as you'd be considered to not being a "fit and proper person"

Those words are in the ACT.

You'll never get you licence or guns back..not without a long fight anyways.

China
5th Feb 2018, 09:11 PM
My property can only be entered ( without break and enter) by invitation only so any one wishing to enter must contact me and make a appointment, if that person has
good reason then I will assist. I have never had any problem with SA Police they have always been polite and carried out their Job. They are only really after the persons who flaunt the regulations.
While I do not agree with many of the regulations it is not the officers who are tasked with enforcing the regs that I have issue with it is the seat shiners making them.

Ian Moone
31st Jul 2020, 09:41 AM
Here in WA your required to remove the bolt and store separately.
That just means in the same gun safe, but locked separately in the small top section. I keep magazines in with the bolts locked separately.
You can’t keep ammo locked in the safe with the firearms - that has to be stored separately also (& comply with mines act regulations, ie inside a wooden box locked inside a metal container like a toolbox with hasp & staple & padlock).
If you do remove your rifle bolt / s from the rifle - you have to cock the bolt to remove it & this compresses the firing pin spring (different on old .303’s, where it’s closing the bolt that cocks it not lifting the bolt handle to open it).

If you do remove your bolt for storage, with mine I can lower the handle after the bolt is removed and this puts the firing pin in the fired position where the spring is not compressed.
This helps prevent weakening your firing pin spring by leaving it stored compressed for long periods.
It also has the benefit that if say a child or someone unfamiliar with firearms got hold of the rifle & the bolt, unless they know how to cock the handle with the bolt out of the action - they won’t be able to get it into the receiver & this might help prevent anyone accidentally discharging it or worse using it on you or your family.
I also employ trigger locks as well.
Your also required to store reloading gun powder and primers in accordance with mines act for explosives, and your restricted on the quantity you can legally store at home (3kg’s total).
There’s probably slight variations for other states.
Ohh and just for those unaware now, any ammunition component including unprimed brass or fired brass, is classified under the act as a “firearm” so the components also have to be locked away, eg empty brass & projectiles, it’s not just your powder & primers.
It’s getting tougher & tougher.
Pretty soon you will likely have to put in returns for how many rounds you reload & store, probably be limits on that to, because Firearms branch can keep an eye on your ammo purchases via the Gunshops returns - but if your reloading - you could be hoarding ammo or supplying it illegally to others who might not have a license to legally buy it from a gunshop for eg.

familyguy
1st Aug 2020, 11:39 AM
I've noticed differences between the states in the firearm legislation - what is ok in one state is frowned upon in another state. No need to remove the bolt in SA, I remove bolts but store them in a hidden location I figure if a thief can break into the gun safe then getting into the small top ammo storage section isn't any harder. A friend had his Brno Mod 2 (purchased new in 1960 when he was 12) stolen - the thieves cut the barrel and stock and tried to hold up a post office - they were caught a short time later - this was no consolation for my friend.

Mk1_Oz
2nd Aug 2020, 02:33 AM
Probably but do you have to assist them. If the cabinet is locked do you have to open it? it is rather rude if they rock up unannounced and order a search...

I for one am all for random checks. The Police constantly do random checks on our vehicle rego as we are driving around so I see no reason why to resist checking firearms. Guns appear to be getting more common in our country (un-fact checked fact :doh:) and anything that can be done to keep everything above board should only be commended. Australia has always been a safe country in terms of gun crime and I am sure nobody would like to see the country head down the route of the US of A. Every legal firearm held by a responsible shooter needs to be correctly secured in order to ensure that they do not fall into the hands of the people who don't want to use them responsibly or legally.

No I am not a greeny tree hugging hippie, just an ex-rifle shooter who cares deeply for his country and society.

Ian Moone
2nd Aug 2020, 02:58 AM
I suspect most law abiding firearms owners wouldn’t object to having their firearms safe inspected in order to keep the Firearms register up to date etc.
The only minor worry might be whether you comply to all the minor nuances of the less obvious things like mines act compliance for ammo storage & reloading components etc.
As best I understand it Police Officers can enforce all acts so Mines act as well for eg.
I’ve not heard of anyone being charged as long as their guns are in the safe, unloaded with bolt & magazine out & ammo stored separate, for the minor stuff.
As long as you dont get the Police offside by being difficult to get along with you should be OK.
Now if your gun safe is in the same room as your hydroponic mull crop, then THAT might be a different story! 😂🙄

A tale of caution, when it comes to gun safes tho, specifically buying them used off social media.

Recently here in the West we had a spate of home invasions (3) where firearms were specifically targeted, during break & enters when no one was home.

The weird thing that was common between all 3 robberies - no damage to the safe!

So in the end it turned out an “enterprising” couple of likely lads took to selling used firearm safes on social media.

When the buyer showed up to inspect & buy, only one set of keys were available, with the excuse that the other set were somehow misplaced and if they turned up in a search of the house they would be forwarded later by mail.
And of course suggesting just get a second set of keys cut to match the set supplied with the safe.

So the buyers were unwittingly giving the sellers their home address.

The sellers then watched the house for when no one was home & after breaking in, used the 2nd set of keys they had deliberately kept, to open the safe & take the firearms.
They then locked the safe behind themselves in the hope it wouldn’t be noticed for some time to the owner that they were even missing - giving the thieves time to dispose of them illegally for cash.

It was only the commonality between 3 separate thefts where the safes were still locked but the firearms were missing that eventually brought the perpetrators undone, when it emerged that all 3 victims had recently bought used gun safes online off social media.

The Police worked out all 3 safes had been bought from the same pair of likely lads & that in all 3 cases only 1 set of keys were supplied with the safe, and a promise made to forward the missing set of / when they showed up, requiring the buyers to leave details of their address.

So word to the wise, don’t buy used gun safes online from social media - with only 1 set of keys & DONT leave your address with them. 😉👍