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View Full Version : Member interactions on any Metalwork Forum- Please read this - Moderator



Grahame Collins
9th Nov 2017, 01:03 PM
There has been yet another round of unpleasantness between forum subscribers within a posted thread. Other forums have withered and died because of that same disrespect. No one receives an advantage and nobody wins.

Name calling and petty personal insults have deterred new members from joining and participating in what should be seen as a friendly and attractive Forum to foster their particular metalwork interest.

Constant intake of new members is what keeps the forum going long term. Without them there may well be no forum for the future. Think on that very carefully.

Now and again there will be a bit of ribbing and teasing between posters familiar with each other for banter with no insult to be intended. That is quite different and I accept that.

Disagree by all means , make your point, prove it or reference it with well accepted online data or other published work but do not indulge in personal insults and attacks just you don't like what the other bloke writes about your post.

Keep it all civil! fellows.

To do otherwise, shall invite a rapid action by yours truly to keep our forum the civil and amiable environment it should be.

If anyone is incapable of behaving in this reasonable manner as described above, start looking elsewhere now, for another venue.

Grahame

BobL
11th Nov 2017, 02:36 PM
Here Here.

I haven't kept to this 100% myself but perhaps also it would useful to have some sort of understanding that no one comments on another members pricing of or criticises an item posted in the FS section. What folks wish to price their items is really their business. Question or comments on/about prices can be done elsewhere but I think the FS section should be left to specific questions about the item FS. Just a suggestion.

Retromilling
11th Nov 2017, 03:44 PM
The problem is in my many many years of experience is that some moderators do not recognise when a forum member has constantly ribbed , put down and made fun of a certain member , " without actually breaking the rules " Some forum bullies are adept at this and when the target of the constant harassment has finally had enough they loose their cool and get banned , but the real bully , the real problem goes on and on and never gets banned . That is why forums wither and die . Failure to recognise the real trouble maker . When this happens ( and I have left several forums because of this very point ) moderators expect the victim to just go on copping the harassment because technically it did not break the rules so they stop posting and eventually leave . Aushunt is a prime example at one time the premo forum but no more . Most of it's top posters and knowledgeable people are gone and uncontrolled idiots and worthless moderation had a lot to do with it .
I asked a moderator to go back and read a certain persons posts and they would see the pattern of harassment but they just said they did not have the time full stop . So bully gets to stay victim banned .
It would be a good thing if moderators when making a decision to ban checked with a few well respected members other than moderators just to get their opinion on who is the real trouble maker . You don't have to act on that advice but a consensus could point any decision in the right direction without the moderator needing to plough through many posts .

SurfinNev
11th Nov 2017, 05:54 PM
It would be a good thing if moderators when making a decision to ban checked with a few well respected members other than moderators just to get their opinion on who is the real trouble maker . You don't have to act on that advice but a consensus could point any decision in the right direction without the moderator needing to plough through many posts .

I agree. Moderators do not always get it right.

Retromilling
11th Nov 2017, 06:25 PM
I agree. Moderators do not always get it right.

Yes mate , I have been the victim of that and seen some others over the years. Part of the the criteria should read "no continued harassment or picking on the same person even if it's claimed to be light hearted moderators decide on what constitutes harassment " Cowards always say . " Lol . I was just joking " but do it continually to the same person . That's harassment . People in the power position on a forum , owners , moderators , sponsors rarely get harassed and have difficulty understanding what constitutes harassment and the bad effects it can have but they should realise internet bulling is deadly serious and can have dire consequences .
I should remark that this forum is very good compared to some others , this is not generally aimed at this forum at the moment just a discussion .

BobL
11th Nov 2017, 07:19 PM
People in the power position on a forum , owners , moderators , sponsors rarely get harassed . . . .

Have to respectively disagree with this.

I'm currently a minor/remnant mod in just the Hercus forum doing a poor job at maintaining the Hercus register (that's my only task) so don't really get to see what's going from the mods point of view in the wider MWF.

However I have been a mod elsewhere and to say that mods "rarely get harassed" is far from correct. The sorts of BS/harranging/pleading/arguments/expletive ridden verbal abuse/actual threats (much worse than anything I have see in an open forum) through PMs and email I have experienced as a mod is plain and simple harassment. Some difficult members just slowly, persistently and incrementally pushing the envelope to see how much it takes to get banned. As a member you won't be seeing any of this so you won't have a clue why some members are banned as it's all happening outside the public forum.

Being a mod is largely thankless task and I'm just glade we have a team of reasonable members prepared to do this - if not these Forums would just fold.

SurfinNev
11th Nov 2017, 07:31 PM
However I have been a mod elsewhere and to say that mods "rarely get harassed" is far from correct. The sorts of BS/harranging/pleading/arguments/expletive ridden verbal abuse/actual threats (much worse than anything I have see in an open forum) through PMs and email I have experienced as a mod is plain and simple harassment. Some difficult members just slowly, persistently and incrementally pushing the envelope to see how much it takes to get banned

Never once experienced this in many years as a Mod and Administrator on the Toyota Surf Forum. Have on the odd occasion banned someone who was obviously there to just create trouble and this was never questioned by anyone. As I stated before somewhere, I try to stay out of discussions between members who have different opinions and it usually works out ok.

.RC.
11th Nov 2017, 07:54 PM
H

However I have been a mod elsewhere and to say that mods "rarely get harassed" is far from correct.

Some of them deserve it. I used to be a member of a forum that had some of the worst moderation I have ever seen. Of course the rules on that forum were very vague and could be interpreted pretty broadly.

Generally speaking this forum goes along pretty well. I am more concerned when people who are right get treated badly.

After all if everyone believes a lie, that does not make it a truth.

I stumbled across a forum Australian Politics Forum. Goodness me, what goes on there is atrocious.

What happens is when people know they can get away with something anonymously, they will act differently then they otherwise would.

Retromilling
11th Nov 2017, 08:24 PM
You could be right for some but that does not change the gist of my observations . I was talking about what we see on the forum not so much messages to moderators but I can believe it I have been a victim of foul PM's and even emails not on this forum though . I agree they do do a good job so far on this forum . For sure people get banned for reacting stupidly when cautioned by moderators but sometimes they are driven to it by the cunning vicious people who never do that . Remember the whole community thought that Ted Bundy was a wonderful guy because he was so sweet and charming .

Oldneweng
12th Nov 2017, 10:40 AM
Remember the whole community thought that Ted Bundy was a wonderful guy because he was so sweet and charming .

Interesting point for discussion. Are the people who cause trouble on forums and comments sections Sociopaths / Psychopaths? Serial killers like Ted Bundy and just about every other one you could think of are. Part of their appeal is they are very likeable. Ed Kemper was considered to be one of the nicest guys around even tho he was extremely tall and imposing.

I find that sometimes it is because people get a false idea of what is being said and refuse to accept this.

Dean

Grahame Collins
12th Nov 2017, 04:10 PM
It would be a good thing if moderators when making a decision to ban checked with a few well respected members other than moderators just to get their opinion on who is the real trouble maker . You don't have to act on that advice but a consensus could point any decision in the right direction without the moderator needing to plough through many posts .

As it happens it is what I sometimes do. Not each and every time but when the situation is not clear cut, I will do that.

If you feel that a member is not getting a fair go PM me and we can discuss your concern.

Bear in mind the famous quote. It certainly applies to forum moderators.

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time. "

Grahame

Oldneweng
12th Nov 2017, 04:20 PM
It is not true. Some people just plain cannot be pleased no matter what!:no:

Dean

Retromilling
13th Nov 2017, 09:29 AM
And there's your bully .

sacc51
13th Nov 2017, 10:48 AM
I'm a member of a few facebook groups, a mixed bag, defence related, camper related, vehicle related, MC related and so on, some have problems some don't. I'm also the mod of two facebook pages I created. I've personally never had any real difficulties with any members, despite banning a couple but I've never received any untoward mail - yet!

I suspect that is due mostly due to the light traffic. these things do happen and mods can have a very difficult time of it.

Graham, unlike me, seems blessed with a very stable and predictive temperament and also seems to have fair outlook when moderating this forum. I know I have aimed (typed) some words at him that he definitely hasn't deserved. But, life's a bitch and we move on.

Like anyone else I have my likes and dislikes, and every now and then they bubble (erupt) to the surface, I'll admit to being volatile, argumentative, rude, sarcastic and any other niceties you may wish to heap on me; so, am I an orphan?

I don't believe I'm a sociopath, nor a psychopath, but, that's just my opinion. Then again, as with most people, I may have a slightly distorted view of myself.

Anyway that little ruckus has been and gone, let's move forward! I shall attempt to control my impulses, not my opinion though. Fair?

Grahame Collins
13th Nov 2017, 11:43 AM
sacc51

Good post, setting an example for the rest of us.


Thanks

Grahame

Oldneweng
13th Nov 2017, 02:47 PM
I'm a member of a few facebook groups, a mixed bag, defence related, camper related, vehicle related, MC related and so on, some have problems some don't. I'm also the mod of two facebook pages I created. I've personally never had any real difficulties with any members, despite banning a couple but I've never received any untoward mail - yet!

snip

I don't believe I'm a sociopath, nor a psychopath, but, that's just my opinion. Then again, as with most people, I may have a slightly distorted view of myself.

Anyway that little ruckus has been and gone, let's move forward! I shall attempt to control my impulses, not my opinion though. Fair?

I also believe in moving on and not holding a grudge.

Believe it or not the comment about sociopath / psychopath had nothing to do with this forum. Also the same with my previous comment. These observations were related to other sites that are not controlled to the same degree as this one, and personal experience.

Retromilling I believe you may have an issue with a thread discussing winch to ground connection points where you falsely assumed I was making a snide comment regarding you leaving the connection plate at home in the shed. If you read the post properly you will see that I was referring to myself doing this. I was having a go at myself, not you.

Dean

.RC.
13th Nov 2017, 05:44 PM
I don't believe I'm a sociopath, nor a psychopath,

Another forum I used to read whenever there was a case of non animal cruelty there would be a discussion and any person having a differing opinion often it would come up those that go on murdering rampages start with real cruel acts to animals. They were essentially saying any person with a differing view to their own is a potential murderer.

Of course invoking Godwins law, Hitler was a vegetarian, therefore all vegetarians are lunatic megalomaniac murderers. Silly I know.

sacc51
13th Nov 2017, 06:06 PM
Ahhh, good to know. I trained RAAF police dogs for 25 years and did a stint as an instructor training others how to train dogs, I love all animals. So, good to know I'm not ready for a rampage yet!

Grahame Collins
13th Nov 2017, 09:51 PM
And there's your bully .



The above is a step too far. It does not speak well of you at all.

Its the first time I have witnessed any thing like it in my 14 years either in the old woodwork side or now here in our Metalwork side.

Your allegation was not supported by a single specific example just a bunch of general complaints.
You were asked if you have a problem and were invited to reply with a PM or you could have even reported the specific problem.

But you chose not to take either of those options, instead accusing the member concerned directly after his post with out proof.You were dead right when you said moderators have better things to do than hunt through old posts.It was up to you to provide the proof and you did not do that.



It would be a good thing if moderators when making a decision to ban checked with a few well respected members other than moderators just to get their opinion on who is the real trouble maker . You don't have to act on that advice but a consensus could point any decision in the right direction without the moderator needing to plough through many posts .

Consensus was spoken of above,well we have done just that and its the consensus of the folks I did PM who have opined theres no problem they can see. I believe you have just misunderstood a a comment made and proceeded from that point.

I urge you, or anyone else who posts as per above, to think very carefully before the submit button is pushed.

Think about what you are about to post and how it will be perceived.

You may take 2 weeks to think on it.

Grahame