To Connect OR Not Connect

[chambezio]

Some time back I made up the pipe work out of PVC to bring coolant to the business end of the lathe. As yet I haven't finished it off and use it when I am doing something on the lathe.

This is probably a question that has been dealt with before, but I was wondering whether by introducing to the lathe soluble oil would I also be introducing rust to the structure of the lathe? At times (rarely) I use a detergent bottle with soluble oil just to cool a small area that is being cut with no rust visible days after the exercise

[Grahame Collins]

Hi Rod
I too, have the gear ready to fit to my lathe and have put it off for the same reason as you gave.

I don't use the lathe regularly at the moment .

Instead when I need some cutting lube it comes from a squirty bottle or I have a syringe body. I have epoxy glued a metal ink tube from a biro onto to the big bore syringe body
and can accurately place the thicker goop precisely where it is needed.

When I relocate the the lathe into my new shed I will rig up the pump and delivery head.

Grahame

[shedhappens]

G/day Chambezio, i think there are quite a few in here that wont use it, i have never had any rust caused by coolant. I use semi synthetic as I copped infections in fingers a couple of times using mineral based soluble oil, i rarely clean the lathe or mill before pulling the roller door down and have left machines like that for weeks on end at times, pretty slack eh !
Never had rust from the coolant on anything, coolant is cheaper than carbide and you often can run higher surface speeds for a better finish and reduce machining time. Lubricity is not as good as oil but i have never noticed any wear on my machines.
I have just got 10 ltrs of full synthetic soluble oil but are yet to try it, my BIL gave it to me to try, he doesn't like it because it foams up to much on his grinders.
He has never had rust either.

Cheers, shed

[sacc51]

Depends on the mix. I use water soluble coolant on my lathe and Bandsaw, have used it for years. If you mix too week a solution surfaces will rust. I use a slightly stronger mix and even though my lathe doesn't get a lot of use these days, I don't have a problem with rust.

[jack620]

I have epoxy glued a metal ink tube from a biro onto to the big bore syringe body and can accurately place the thicker goop precisely where it is needed.

As soon as I get home I'm doing that!

[Retromilling]

Even if a coolant does not rust it can still stain the bed if left there . It's expensive and it goes off quickly and can become contaminated with bacteria . Only use it if you have to and after doing the job if not using teh lathe again for a while get it out of the lathe sump and put in a sealed container . Dry the bed well so no coolant is left sitting on the bed ways , saddle or chuck .

[BaronJ]

Hi Guys,

I still got a part used gallon (5 Ltr) container of cutting oil from 30 + years ago. I just checked it and apart from the container shrunk in a little, it doesn't smell bad or seem to have gone off. I've mixed a table spoon full and put it in a plastic bottle, its gone white and milky just as expected. I noticed this morning that the mix in the bottle, the water is still milky but a layer of oil has separated on top. I've left a few drops on a surface to let it dry and see if it rusts and/or stains.

I normally use WD40 and diesel as lubricants on both mill and lathe along with Trefolex and Rocol speedcut for threading and drilling.

[sacc51]

I've been using water soluble coolant for years, I've never changed the coolant in either my bandsaw or lathe, just topped it up and never had a problem with either rust or smell. Wouldn't have a clue about bacteria, but I think there's probably more bacteria jn my dogs gob than in the coolant. The system I use on both lathe and bandsaw aren't fully sealed either as the drains on both swarf tray and bandsaw table lead to the reservoir.

[Retromilling]

Hi Guys,

I still got a part used gallon (5 Ltr) container of cutting oil from 30 + years ago. I just checked it and apart from the container shrunk in a little, it doesn't smell bad or seem to have gone off. I've mixed a table spoon full and put it in a plastic bottle, its gone white and milky just as expected. I noticed this morning that the mix in the bottle, the water is still milky but a layer of oil has separated on top. I've left a few drops on a surface to let it dry and see if it rusts and/or stains.

I normally use WD40 and diesel as lubricants on both mill and lathe along with Trefolex and Rocol speedcut for threading and drilling.

That's not an issue new unmixed coolant concentrate will not go off that I have seen . It's when you mix it with water and then use it on the machine and it sits around in the sump that it eventually goes bad .

[Retromilling]

I've been using water soluble coolant for years, I've never changed the coolant in either my bandsaw or lathe, just topped it up and never had a problem with either rust or smell. Wouldn't have a clue about bacteria, but I think there's probably more bacteria jn my dogs gob than in the coolant. The system I use on both lathe and bandsaw aren't fully sealed either as the drains on both swarf tray and bandsaw table lead to the reservoir.

It does go off eventually and in a machine shop situation it gets much more abuse but is used more regular . However it could have bacteria build up and you don't know it when you use it you can be at risk of an infection . Old machinists have bad lungs from dirty coolants . Some shops add chlorine into it to kill any bugs but that's just as bad in my book. Leaving it sit in an unsealed sump for long periods with oil floating on top is risky . When it's used often and pumped about oxygen penetrating the liquid helps to fight bugs .

[chambezio]

Thanks for all the comments. Stains on the bed is really not a problem in my case the dear old lathe is well over a hundred years old and has taken a nearly black patina on most of it. I do have some white oil mixed up in a plastic 4ltr container, that I should have a look at to see if its gone off or not. I think I might only use it occasionally when doing some heavy cuts

[Retromilling]

That Black patina as you say is a combination of converted fine rust and coolant staining over the whole thing . If the coolant is fairly clean when it's sealed up it should be ok. I filter mine back into a drum after use and seal it up . Lasts way longer than leaving in the open sump I find.

[Oldneweng]

Wouldn't have a clue about bacteria, but I think there's probably more bacteria jn my dogs gob than in the coolant.

Love this comment. ROFL

I never worry about bacteria. Only people who worry about bacteria get sick or infected. You soon develop imununity.

Dean

[Retromilling]

I know an old machinist that has a lung contamination of some kind probably from contaminated coolants but he can't prove it of course .
You don't develop any immunity to anything until you have been infected by the germs first and you have to then get better to develop an immunity , most do some don't ! Mist coolant sprays are the worst as it floats around . Some people think they are indestructible and can just ignore every safety guideline . It can't hurt to be cautious and keep your coolant healthy .
Enclosed CNC machines now are much healthier to operate as they control the coolants better . Long term effects are not well known and they don't want to know them .

[Oldneweng]

There is a big difference between long term exposure to coolant mist etc, and a bacterial infection. The infection can be cured.


Some people think they are indestructible and can just ignore every safety guideline

And some people have a healthy positive attitude to infection and this positive attidude better enables them to fight said infection. I have had one real cold in about 15 years and I never take any precautions in relation to people in close proximity, but SWMBO can catch a cold from talking to someone on the phone. Attitude makes a big difference. Quite a while ago I ate some off pork. I eventually decided I did not like the taste and stopped. During the night I woke up and noticed a slight tummy ache, rolled over and went back to sleep. End of story. Cast iron gut. My brother is just the same.

There are times when it is wise to be careful.

Many years ago I did a lot of centreless grinding. This produces quite a bit of mist. The coolant was changed regularly, every year on the day we knocked off for the Xmas break. For a fair portion of the year you fired up the grinder, turned on the coolant and went somewhere else for a while until the stink settled down a bit.

Dean

[Oldneweng]

Another method of using coolant is a mistless system. Lots of people are aware of the misting system, but the mistless system only delivers droplets of coolant fed by a lower pressure stream of compressed air. The droplets land on the work as drops. Very little coolant is required as the air helps reduce heat. I think it would be easy to move around so I only plan on making one and moving it from lathe to mill etc.

I have bought a cheap misting system with the intention of making a mistless system. The trick is to have 2 pressure regulators so the coolant container can be pressurised higher than the air stream. This allows the coolant to be fed into the air stream. I have seen a number of YouTube videos on these. Oxtools has one, but I think the video about him making it is just part of one of his former regular weekly presentations. You can generally see a 2 litre coke type bottle on his mill column.

Dean

[simonl]

Love this comment. ROFL

I never worry about bacteria. Only people who worry about bacteria get sick or infected. You soon develop imununity.

Dean

Yes and no. Most people will notice most of my pics that show my hands or fingers will see I rarely have clean hands. When they are not greasy from the shed they are dirty from gardening and tending to the fruit trees and vegie patch. I rarely garden with gloves and rarely cover cuts (except at work) and I have never had any real problems. However, certains things I would never do such as open a fresh bag of dynamic lifter or other oganic fertiliser and inhale the contents with a deep breath! It's one thing to not worry about infections on open cuts wounds etc. but to dice with bacteria/fungii with your respiratory system is another thing. Plenty of super healthy people with awsome immune systems have died from infections.

Having said that, I have had coolant stay stagnant in my bandsaw resevior for months/years and it stays pretty good. I was surprised at how stable the stuff is when I first starting using coolant. Same same with the coolant in my SG.

I'm keen to learn more about this mistless system for the mill though..

Simon

[Oldneweng]

It's one thing to not worry about infections on open cuts wounds etc. but to dice with bacteria/fungii with your respiratory system is another thing. Plenty of super healthy people with awsome immune systems have died from infections.


I don't really understand what difference there is between breathing stuff in and getting it in cuts etc. This breathing it in issue is fairly recent to my knowledge. Why is it different? Your body has mechanisms to combat infectious organisms. It either works or it doesn't. Breathing them in is no different, except there are physical filtration methods as well. That's what snot is. I have survived over 55 years without having any issues, so it can't be too bad, but I have a pretty rugged immune system now because I don't molly coddle it.


I'm keen to learn more about this mistless system for the mill though..

I would like to help, but I am not sure I can. I did a search on YouTube and found nothing. Besides Oxtools, another well known YouTuber had some videos about making one, but I don't remember who.
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Ok, I just did a search for "Fogless" and came up with "Fogless Coolant System" by James Kilroy. Have a look at these.

Dean

[simonl]

Thanks Dean.

Lots of people have rugged immune systems but they still die of infection, even more so before antibiotics. Inhalation is the most effective and quickest mode of entry into the body of either chemical, biological or radiological agents.

In the case of biological agents, your lungs provide the perfect place for bugs to grow. It's warm, moist and has the fastest and direct entry into your blood stream via gas exchange in your avioli. Sure, your immune system will fight the infection by sending the white blood cells (puss) which is no big a deal with a superficial infected cut but when it's your lungs it soon becomes difficult to breathe when your lungs are filled with fluid (pneumonia).

This is why lung infections kill many more people than say an infected hand.

Simon

[Oldneweng]

This is why lung infections kill many more people than say an infected hand.

I personally would have said it was because of severity. Lung infections that kill are usually caused by some pretty serious nasties. A cut hand is infected by some general run of the mill nasties. If you cut your hand you "will" get infectious organisms in the cut from the immediate environment. If you breathe you are not very likely to get those pretty serious nasties in your lungs. This is what gets me about all these "protect your health" ideas people keep coming up with. They lack logic.

I have an infection in my left fore finger at the moment because I stabbed it in the side of the top joint twice with the point of a needle file while cleaning out the inside of a little bit of copper tubing to be used as a wiring ferrule. This was Sunday. Last night I soaked it in some Dettol solution because the pain and stiffness was slowing down my work fitting my car stereo. Normally I would just keep squeezing etc until it opened up properly and then healed.

Anti bacterial hand etc cleaning products. Waste of time. If anyone thinks they can prevent infections using these they are dreaming, or more likely conned by marketing methods. Our world is smothered in bacteria, totally. So are we. Beneficial bacteria what's more. Why destroy them? We should be using logic and protecting against specific serious issues. Infectious diseases patients and such situations.

If you want to wear a mask for potting mix then that is up to the individual. Organic fertiliser? I have not heard that one. Is that what the package warns? This has been thru an industrial process and is supplied in a pellet form from my memory. Lots of people will warn against anything with the potential for dust, including the manufacturer, if only to prevent the risk of future litigation. When I heard about the need to wear a mask when handling potting mix etc my immediate thought was, well I have survived this long, hardly seems like it is worth the effort of bothering to protect myself now. I have probably got immunity from all the bugs now anyway.

I have never taken precautions against infection in ordinary daily actions and I have never had a serious infection of any type. I do come from good pioneer stock tho. :rolleyes:

Everyone should take whatever precautions they feel comfortable with, but most of them are BS in my opinion. Is marketing involved? The world has gone really crazy with ridiculous mistaken beliefs. I recently read an article about a scientific study that determined that wholemeal bread was no more "nutritionally" beneficial for you than white bread. So where did that BS come from? Logic, add fibre etc and you don't add nutrients, only fibre etc. I was stunned that people are stupid enough to believe such a ridiculous thing. Where are their brains? I am always reading articles like this that just stun me. And most people rely on Farcebook for their news. Oh, hang on. I think the penny has dropped. People are very very gullible.

Logic is the main infection prevention tool I use.

Dean

[simonl]

Hi Dean,

the more we talk the more I realise I totally agree with you. I certainly not a germaphobe and you will never see any anti-bacterial kitchen wipes in our house! But, I still don't do silly things. We are a healthy house but I still make sure my chicken is cooked properly and stuff like that.

Yes, cleaning chemical companies have a lot to answer for. I really annoys me when you see that glen 20 add and they are spraying everything in the house to kill all the bad germs.

It's funny you mention the wheat thing. My wife and I stopped eating wheat and most grains about 3 months ago for that very reason. Empty calories with little nutritional value. I also steer clear of "low fat" foods. It's funny how we are an obese society yet we consume more "low fat" food than at any other time in history. Go figure!

Cheers.

Simon

[Oldneweng]

Ha ha, you trying to get me on my soapbox?


I really annoys me when you see that glen 20

The only one I remember is a kid coming in the back door and mom wandering around wiping every surface he touched. They had a baby. Guilt about not protecting the baby from germs and fear that it will get sick. It is the marketers who are sick. I don't watch TV. Haven't seen any for years.


My wife and I stopped eating wheat and most grains about 3 months ago for that very reason. Empty calories with little nutritional value.

Not quite what I meant. Grains are one of the main food groups and if you look at your teeth you will see surfaces that roughly resemble grain grinding surfaces. This is the logic I mean. We possess teeth that developed from grinding foods like grains. We ate grains etc during our development. We are designed to eat grain. While on this subject, the whole "Gluten Free" BS craze. Logic tells you that people (Celiac's) are unable to take gluten, it can be dangerous, but the rest of us are not affected. It is just another protein. Total stupidity turns stuff like this into another marketing bonanza and morons believe it and waste money on expensive foods that are a waste of money and of no benefit whatsoever. The con artist wins again. If I want information on food and whether we should eat it I look back a million years or so. Did we eat meat? Yes. Did we eat big mac's? The only exception to this rule is Chocolate. I tell myself that if they had access to it back then they would have eaten it.


I also steer clear of "low fat" foods.

Everyone should. Especially diabetics. Another con job from the marketeers. Logic here is read the lable. Look for carbohydrates, sugar!! Sugar is worse for you than fat.


yet we consume more "low fat" food than at any other time in history. Go figure!

That's easy. We don't do anything. We just need to get off our ar5e and go and do some physical work of some description. I think that the food side is vastly over estimated. Forget about about the food intake and look at the exercise. I do more than most. It is 150m down to the letterbox. When I walk I always try to do it briskly so I get some heart and lung action. Even if I happened to be in Melbourne I walk like this. I remember years ago when SWMBO was in hospital after her crash I was walking all the way thru the centre around Central station (I think) at a brisk walk, up and down escalators etc leaving other pedestians behind in my wake. If you have to walk (or want to) make it useful, get your heart going or you have wasted an opportunity. Logic, like common sense is sadly lacking.

Dean

[sacc51]

A healthy diet is one that consists of food from all the food groups. The no sugar, no fat, no wheat, no meat, no dairy nonsense is just that that - nonsense. Unless you have a medical reason for not doing so, your diet should be a balanced one. The body needs sugar, or more importantly the brain needs sugar, it cannot function without it. Deprive the body of sugar and it will manufacture its own from protein, fat whatever.

If you are a cave man diet devotee, consider this: cave man ate whatever he could get his hands on, whatever grew from trees or from the ground and was edible he ate. He also ate animals, all of the animal, cave man wasn't so adept at hunting that he could afford to be choosy. In eating all the animal that meant, meat, fat, heart, liver, stomach, intestines, probably even ate the animals privates. Most animals were either herbivores or at least the same as us omnivores so their gut would have contained all sorts of matter, grains included. In effect cave man was an anyvore, he ate whatever was around, he had no choice.

A balanced diet includes foods from all food groups, the active word here is moderation: delete any of the food groups and you no longer have a balanced diet. We need meat, we need carbohydrates, we need leafy greens, we need brightly coloured vegetables and fruit in appropriate moderation. Sugar is a dietary requirement as is fat, grains, meat, vegetables - all in 'felicitous' moderation!

Sugar 'is' bad for you! if eaten in abundance! as is fat, red meat, grains, dairy, fruit, probably the only thing that you cannot eat too much of is vegetables. Having said that, broccoli and brussel sprouts are definitely bad for you, or at the very least should be considered to be!

Then there is the E word: Evolution. Civilised man has been evolving for over 6,000 years, modern man 200,000 years or 6,000,000 years if we include our primitive ancestors, our way of living has changed as has our methods of collecting and farming foods and animals and thus, we have little in common with first man - other than we still detest broccoli and brussel sprouts.

You can argue the length of time needed for evolution is great, but in reality evolution is a constant and sometimes rapid process sometimes achieved in a little as a few generations.

What any of this has to do with connecting or not I have no idea,but it was a good excuse to exercise the fingers.

[Oldneweng]

All very true except for one thing. Broccoli and brussel sprouts. Both good to eat if cooked right. Early man would not have had access to these. Amost all fruit and vegetables have changed beyond recognition since the dawn of man.

This is a discussion about using logic and knowledge to decide what is the best way to go about doing things in our lives. This is completely relevant to workshop activities.

Dean

[sacc51]

Well if cave man never had access to nor ate broccoli or brussel sprouts, I'm adopting the cave man diet. oh, and you are talking absolute nonsense, there is absolutely no way of cooking broccoli or brussel sprouts that would make them edible. Next you'll be telling me that cobbers are bad for you. Incidentally, did you know dark chocolate besides being good for you in moderation of course, is a cough suppressant that works better than cough syrups. I think I can feel a coughing fit coming on!

[Oldneweng]

there is absolutely no way of cooking broccoli or brussel sprouts that would make them edible.

Ha ha. I like broccoli and if small baby brussel sprouts can be found they taste pretty good too. The trick is not to over cook them. Still some crunch and not swimming in water. I hate any veges boiled in water. Steam them, otherwise they are tasteless and lacking in nutrients. Sprouts and broccoli is a matter of personal choice. I would not force anyone to eat them.

Hopefully next weekend we will send a young bull and maybe a wether to the abattoirs. Yum yum. Now if we can find someone with a nice pig to sell, or wants to go halves. Sold a steer and heifer Tuesday at the market and got a pretty good price. That will pay for the butcher and for some material to build up the driveway.

Dean