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Mutawintji
10th Jun 2017, 09:16 AM
Of course I would NEVER touch a Poona Tree with a chainsaw, the thread title is tongue in cheek!



I have a different opinion about this. I love nearly all trees. Scrubby twisted trees have suffered, and show great character. I have heard lots of people say "why don't you get rid of that tree?" Why do humans insist on visual perfection? I like magnificent trees, and trees with character.

I do quite a bit of travelling in the outback. I'm a city guy. But in 2000 on the news it said that Australia was suffering the worst drought in recorded history. Now as a young apprentice I was always being told by old-know-it-all tradesmen that I knew nothing. 'You don't know what hot is .. why way back ..' 'You don't know what cold is .. why when I was young it was so cold ...'

You know the type. So I decided, city-guy that I would go out west on my holidays and see the 'worst-drought-ever' and then when the ol'-know-it-alls said 'You don't know what it's like, why way back ...' I would be able to interrupt and say 'Yes I do, I've seen the worst drought ever'

So I did, and something strange happened. The drought of course was devastating. But what happened was that when I got back from holidays, and back at boring work, I missed the outback. I really did. I found myself waiting impatiently for my next holidays so I could get back out there. I put off all my clothes shopping, shoes, so that when I got out there I would buy all my clothes etc from the small towns that were doing it real tough.

Now I've retired and I go out there all the time and whenever I feel like it. I particularly love the deserts, camping in them, the isolation, the big-sky and the far horizons. It's just the most wonderful thing you can do, a campfire by a billabong on the Darling River, or a campfire among the Jump-ups in Sturt's stony desert.

Poona trees are desert trees, and quite possibly some of them are thousands of years old. Twisted gnarled wizened up ancient things ... and yet somehow they live on amongst the sands. Their correct names are probably Gidgees, Sheoaks, Beulah trees ... but I call them Poona trees.

Anyway, hope I'm not boring you guys. My last trip was last year. Now, what happened was a coincidence. That is, I had no fore-knowledge. I went as far as the truck (Nissan 2.3l diesel, 2WD) would go, and then I got out and started following an eagle that had come to check on me, I was in her territory. I was photographing. The eagle led me to the Poona tree ... and the Poona tree held a secret. And so I made this little movie of the journey.

Dean, If you like scrubby twisted trees, and you think they're filled with character (and they are) then you will like this movie

:)




https://youtu.be/0ofRucxIlzI

Hope you enjoy ... Greg

Mutawintji
10th Jun 2017, 09:34 AM
Chimney or flue? I have never used a chimney fire for a long period. Waste of effort. We have 2 wood stoves. Kitchen range and lounge. Both have flues up a chimney. I rarely have to clean the flues and it only involves dropping a short chain on a rope and rattling it around. That is all I have ever done. What do you mean by "to gummy"? Where does this cause problems? There was a tree down over the road last year that had been trimmed enough to let cars get around it by someone. I cut the rest of it, finally back to the stump. It bled huge amounts of blood red gum/sap all over the road and into the trailer. Maybe a litre in total. It looked like a crime scene. :oo:

Dean

I'm not sure what you mean by 'chimney or flue'?

My fireplaces have straight chimneys through the roof. There is no butterfly in them. The control over the fire is by adjustable grates that restrict the oxygen flow to the fire.

Mutawintji
10th Jun 2017, 10:04 AM
my chainsaw is 7 years old, but has only worked hard for the last two winters. The chain wore out and even tho I could still sharpen it the chisels were too thin and could no longer clear the groove.

So I rung Makita in Sydney and ordered a new chain, new bar, new air-cleaner, new spark-arrester and two plugs. As it turned out I didn't need a new bar, but I didn't know that. I just presumed I would.

I was getting desperate because winter is upon us up here already and the guests were going thru the firewood without any economic concern. They think it grows on trees. heheee

The parts arrived. But the bar was narrower than my bar. Nevertheless, it fitted the saw. But the chain would not engage with the teeth on the drum clutch, it appeared to be shorter links. So I rung Makita again, and they said, no worries we'll send you another one. (The mix-up was my fault, I had given them part numbers from the book, I hadn't bothered to read the number on my bar)

But the new one didn't arrive. I needed fire-wood urgently by now and so I drove into the Stihl shop in Kingaroy. The guy there made me up a new chain and dressed the bar. He said I didn't need a new bar at all.

So that all went fine and I got my wood cut.

Then a package arrived from Makita. It was only the size of a cigarette box. It puzzled me, it stills puzzles me. There was no new chain or bar. It was a drum clutch, very precision engineered and a small gear that fitted onto the out-put shaft of the clutch. I have never seen anything like it. I'm wondering if anyone else has, or if anyone knows what this particular chain is for?

I asked Makita why had they made this, what was the purpose of it, and why was it so well engineered compared to the old chain and bar. They mumbled, but no one in Makita appeared to know exactly why this chain and bar is produced.

Here's some pics. This is my old bar with the new chain from Stihl. This works fine, it 3/8"



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And here is the strange bar-chain setup that eventually arrived from Makita. It's a very narrow bar. I have not used it yet. I'm not really sure what it's for?


368280


Here are some close-ups


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368283

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The bar is much narrower in height than my old one. My best guess is that it is some kind of specialist bar, used by those people who carve people and wolves etc from tree trunks, or who carve those ice castles in Scandanavian lands.

Greg

BobL
10th Jun 2017, 10:29 AM
Narrow bars are quite common and there is nothing special about them.
Usually the longer a bar is the wider it is and the more belly it has, as this helps the chain stay on although if you look carefully its really just a smaller bar scaled up.

Also I note your old bar was a hard nose bar whereas the new one looks like a sprocket nose bar?
Hard nose bars are usually wider to hold the chain on where as the sprocket nose means a much narrower bar can be used.

The photo below shows my MS441 with the 25" bar and 3/8 Lopro chain, and an MS211 with a 12" carving bar and 1/4" chain.
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Here is a 60" sprocket nose bar I use on one of my Chain saw mills and you can see it's quite narrow
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By comparison this is a wide bar
368286

Mutawintji
10th Jun 2017, 10:37 AM
That's really interesting. But what do you use the '211' for? What's it's purpose?

Greg

PS: you must have just edited your post. If there is a link under the word 'carving', it's not working for me.

Mutawintji
10th Jun 2017, 10:41 AM
Holy Feck ... they are huge .... heheeeee

Do they serve a purpose? There is no way you could wield that about in a forest or on slopes

BobL
10th Jun 2017, 10:42 AM
That's really interesting. But what do you use the '211' for? What's it's purpose?

Greg
Nature playground carving
368287

368288

Mutawintji
10th Jun 2017, 10:50 AM
Wow. So much to learn.

I tried to carve the 'fell date' on my timber, but Icouldn't do it with mine, too rough.

That's really impressive.

So, my new bar, and narrower chain .335 compared to . 375 ... what can I use it for? My 3/8 seems to do everything I need. Is there anything the new bar can do that the old one won't?

Greg

BobL
10th Jun 2017, 10:55 AM
So, my new bar, and narrower chain .335 compared to . 375 ... what can I use it for? My 3/8 seems to do everything I need. Is there anything the new bar can do that the old one won't?


Nope, no difference really.

Oldneweng
10th Jun 2017, 11:09 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by 'chimney or flue'?

My fireplaces have straight chimneys through the roof. There is no butterfly in them. The control over the fire is by adjustable grates that restrict the oxygen flow to the fire.

A chimney is a structure built into the house, a flue is a metal pipe from the stove which goes up the chimney or straight up thru the ceiling and roof. I am just asking which you refer to when you said "put coke build up in the chimney"?

Wood from eucalypt trees takes a long time to properly dry. Many people don't wait long enough. If it is still partially green it can cause problems.


I had Council take a look as its on their property because I felt it may come down at any time but they said its ok.... time will tell.

Almost all large old gums have damage and hollows. Many native animals depend on these hollows for nesting including the Red Tailed Black Cockatoo which we see occasionally.

The possums here wear hob nailed boots at times, but the worst thing about them is their language. It is common to walk out on the back step and have a string of obscenities aimed at you. :D


I used 100 on the fence posts and 70 on the cattle rail. The bolts are just because I got so sick of seeing every cattle yard made from 'cattle-rail' and just welded to the posts. Farmers put nothing at all into appearance, just weld it up with cheep- cattle-rail. I decided to be a bit fancier than that heheee

I just caught up with this post. There is a reason that farmers use boring ol welding. Its called survival. You are just building a fence. If it was a cattle yard I would not want to risk my life against a large angry bull with rail connections like that.

I believe that the tyre tie down thing is because so many vehicles are built light and flimsy these days that some are not strong enough to be towed or restrained the way we are used to doing it. Its catering to the lowest common denominator.

Dean

Oldneweng
10th Jun 2017, 11:17 AM
Narrow bars are quite common and there is nothing special about them.
Usually the longer a bar is the wider it is and the more belly it has, as this helps the chain stay on although if you look carefully its really just a smaller bar scaled up.

Also I note your old bar was a hard nose bar whereas the new one looks like a sprocket nose bar?
Hard nose bars are usually wider to hold the chain on where as the sprocket nose means a much narrower bar can be used.


Take another look Bob. I can see a ring of rivets in the first picture.

Dean

Oldneweng
10th Jun 2017, 11:43 AM
Holy Feck ... they are huge .... heheeeee

Do they serve a purpose? There is no way you could wield that about in a forest or on slopes

Yanks!! Always ready to throw money away for nothing. I think testosterone may have a small input. Think monster trucks. I have seen a video of these competitions where an actual vehicle motor was used in a saws. 2 Guys actually lifted it and took a cut.:?

Years ago I was told that it was a good idea to buy 2 chains, a bar and a sprocket together. When the chains are worn out buy 2 more and a sprocket and check the bar to see if it is worn enough to require a wider foot thingy (forgot the name again) that goes into the bar slot. You are aware that as the slot in the bar wears wider you can get different chains to fit the wider slot?

From the sound of it your chain is worn well beyond where it should get. There are many chain sizes. I only know about the ones I use. The size designations seem to be about as consistant as firearm cartridges.:no: The firewood cutting mate built a firewood cutting rig mounted on a prime mover. All hydraulic. He tried many bar / chain sizes for his hydraulic chainsaw. The hydraulics just broke the chain. He finally built his own bar using 3 x 1/4" plate pieces and a 3/4" chain.

Bob is one of the more experienced people I mentioned earlier. I love his work. I also love the picture of him out bush sittting in his comfy chair watching, while his saw mill does its thing on a rather large log.


So, my new bar, and narrower chain .335 compared to . 375 ... what can I use it for? My 3/8 seems to do everything I need. Is there anything the new bar can do that the old one won't?

It can still be used after the old one is worn out. :D Think of it as a spare.

I have downloaded the video. I will watch it later when I have more time.

Dean

.RC.
10th Jun 2017, 12:56 PM
I see the replacement bar is for .325 chain, not 3/8" that you currently run. The chain is not compatible. The replacement sprocket also looks like it is for 325 chain.

We run 325 on our small saws which are around the 55-60cc capacity. Our Stihl MS660 we run 3/8, others would run .404 chain on it. Narrower chains have a smaller width of cut so you get more power in the cut. What chain do you run? semi-chisel or chisel? Semi-chisel is rounded profile, chisel is square. semi-chisel is better for dirty cutting, chisel chain as the very tip is a sharp right angle cuts better but the tip is weaker.

Google tells me you actually have a Dolmar chainsaw, Makita just badge engineer.

Mutawintji
10th Jun 2017, 01:34 PM
Almost all large old gums have damage and hollows. Many native animals depend on these hollows for nesting including the Red Tailed Black Cockatoo which we see occasionally.

I'm not a raving-greenie. But all my land is natural and I'll never place domesticated animals on it. Beside, it's impossible to fence. I have ten hectares and my rear border is with the National Park. They can't access this border, except thru my land. On their side of the border are 1000s of hectares of pristine rainforest, impenetrable except from my border. it's doubtful that any human, even Aboriginal, has been in there. It's dangerous, as I know, (you can only make progress along the ridge tops) because you are ALWAYS forced in the end towards the edges of a ravine. You can't see the bottom, it curves out and the canopy makes it pitch black. The soil becomes loose because nothing is growing on the dark floor, you start to slip and as you retreat in panic it becomes 2 steps up and 1 step back, like climbing a sand dune. I've clutched at tiny weeds and roots for traction.

It's a dark and eerie place, and I gotta admit I'm scared shitless by the wild boar and that one of them is gunna charge and not retreat. The silence gets to you. You become scared, at least I do. I'm hoping to make it from my mountain summit to the next summit where Dandabah sits. Each time I try my bottle goes and I come running home to mummy. I mark the spot where I was. Next time I go to that spot and make a new assault for another 100 metres before I bottle out again.

The ranger's helicopter bait my border and that whole area regularly.

However I consider all this land as mine, and no one can say it's not because no one else can get there .... heheeee.

Sorry for waffling. Back on track, when I fell the dead ironbarks I take each one from a different location, even tho others are close by in the one location. Because as you say many species depend upon dead trees. The average narrow-leafed ironbark is only 150-300mm diameter. And they don't live overly long. My firewood depredations are well below the sustainable growth rate



I just caught up with this post. There is a reason that farmers use boring ol welding. Its called survival. You are just building a fence. If it was a cattle yard I would not want to risk my life against a large angry bull with rail connections like that.

Yes, I know that. :) But what I sorta mean is there is no attempt at symmetry. They just weld it on where it touches, sharp edges protruding. They're great at achieving joins at any angle at all, except 90 ... Hehe

Greg

PS: I only take timber from my own land.

Mutawintji
10th Jun 2017, 01:57 PM
I see the replacement bar is for .325 chain, not 3/8" that you currently run. The chain is not compatible. The replacement sprocket also looks like it is for 325 chain.

We run 325 on our small saws which are around the 55-60cc capacity. Our Stihl MS660 we run 3/8, others would run .404 chain on it. Narrower chains have a smaller width of cut so you get more power in the cut. What chain do you run? semi-chisel or chisel? Semi-chisel is rounded profile, chisel is square. semi-chisel is better for dirty cutting, chisel chain as the very tip is a sharp right angle cuts better but the tip is weaker.

Google tells me you actually have a Dolmar chainsaw, Makita just badge engineer.

I've never heard of Dolmar, but it's a great saw. Both my bars have a wheel on the end of the bar that takes the bending moment of the chain.

Makita have sent me the complete bar, chain (.325) and the clutch-drum with the odd shaped chain engagement wheel. In the pic above. So I have two working sets, but not interchangeable. I have not used the .325 bar yet.

I think my chain is chisel, the top of the blade is dead flat. I think I do dirty cutting, but I try never to touch soil. That's why I tend to billet where the log falls. But sometimes I have to jinker because any billet-load on the bush-pig would be unsafe for that geography, whereas jinkering becomes a safer option. I use a high-grade Ronstan Spinnaker clip which can release at a tug on the string no matter the weight of the load. If a heavy log gets a roll on it will take the bush-pig with it. The bush-pig only weighs 470kg. Jinkering is when the logs pick up stones and dirt. It's very slow as the log constantly jams and I have to get out and clear, or take a different pull. I've thought about making up a front sled to strap the log into. (Because I'm just a one-man operation... hehe)

After cutting jinkered logs I always check the teeth for any gouges. I sharpen at -10, +30. Then I height check the lead in post, it's supposed to be 0.64mm below the blade. I just use a plate and a vertical vernier height gauge to do this. After a number of sharpens I will check each post. The lead in post is curved at the front edge, and I maintain the curve.

I'm not sure of the cc capacity of my saw. It's 3000kw or 3.5hp in old terms.

Thanks for info, especially on Dolmar, I will look them up. Strangely enough tho Makita or badged Makita, it's made in Finland.

Greg

Mutawintji
10th Jun 2017, 02:19 PM
By comparison this is a wide bar
368286

Would this thing actually be productive? I mean would it cut thru that log any quicker than mine considering it's disadvantages?

Greg

BobL
10th Jun 2017, 04:00 PM
Would this thing actually be productive? I mean would it cut thru that log any quicker than mine considering it's disadvantages?

https://youtu.be/brfKKehFtmw



Take another look Bob. I can see a ring of rivets in the first picture.
So there is - I still need glasses to see fine detail.

Dolmar make a very good chainsaw, Dolmar and Dolmar-Sachs have been making chainsaws for nearly 100 years
Most of the models can be checked here
Chain Saw Collectors Corner - Gasoline Chain Saws by Manufacturer (http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.nsf/GasbyManufacturer?OpenView&Start=30&Count=30&Expand=36#36)

Mutawintji
10th Jun 2017, 06:03 PM
Heheee ... 0.88 secs. :) But just to be pedantic it took 2 x 20secs from engine start to billet fall. I reckon, maybe I could do it in under 40 secs. Maybe.

That's a great link. I ended up on the Dolmar site, and from what I can make out mine is a PS-510

Greg

Thanx everyone for all this info.

Oldneweng
10th Jun 2017, 07:59 PM
Heheee ... 0.88 secs. :) But just to be pedantic it took 2 x 20secs from engine start to billet fall. I reckon, maybe I could do it in under 40 secs. Maybe.

That's a great link. I ended up on the Dolmar site, and from what I can make out mine is a PS-510

Greg

Thanx everyone for all this info.

I didn't look close at the picture of the saw. That is the one I saw in the video, along with lots of others.

However long it took to cut that log, how long to do the next and the next etc etc.

I did a bit of cutting this afternoon with my baby saw. It is the smallest Stihl. Great for cleaning up the smaller stuff on fallen trees and still does pretty good on some of the bigger stuff. When I have finished with the baby, fire up the big one and start cutting I always think to myself "why didn't I start to use this sooner?" The big saw just rips thru so much faster. It is a balance between weight and speed. When is it worth lifting the extra weight to gain speed. I have to talk myself into swapping saws. :D My back prefers the little one.


Yes, I know that. :) But what I sorta mean is there is no attempt at symmetry. They just weld it on where it touches, sharp edges protruding. They're great at achieving joins at any angle at all, except 90 ... Hehe

Ok, gottcha. Agricultural engineering.

I have just finished watching "The Eagle". Very impressive. I'm glad I waited til now.

Dean

.RC.
10th Jun 2017, 08:29 PM
All the decent saws are made in Scandinavian countries or Germany. The spare sprocket you got with the clutch is the usual style that I have seen for 325 chain Our Husqvarnas use the same style sprocket, except the clutch on Husqvarnas are external, not internal like you have.

You could probably invest in some wedges, they really are essential for tree felling and billet cutting, especially if you do not have heavy equipment to help you out.

Mutawintji
10th Jun 2017, 09:34 PM
It is a balance between weight and speed. When is it worth lifting the extra weight to gain speed. I have to talk myself into swapping saws. :D My back prefers the little one.


Heheeee ... I know that exact feeling. I have a bush axe and a splitter. Both Fiskars. The axe, which I sharpen till it shaves hairs on my arm is great for cutting tinder from billets. I can almost do it machine-gun fashion. But you can only cut so much tinder ... I groan picking up the splitter.

Mutawintji
10th Jun 2017, 09:38 PM
Hi .RC

At the risk of showing ignorance, what would I use the wedges for? How can they help me. I just looked up Fiskar wedges and they look impressive. Now I want them just because they look great :)

Would I also then need to carry a sledge hammer. I'm a fairly lightweight operation, but if wedges will make life safer then I will get them

cheers ... Greg

PS: I thought about this. Are the wedges to prevent the billets jamming the blade ... sometimes I have to billet where the log falls because it's too big to move. I get a lot of kick back for this reason. The gap closes on the blade but there is not always a way round it.

I really appreciate the info.

Oldneweng
10th Jun 2017, 10:37 PM
Wedges can be used to keep the gap open. If you are getting kickback from a closing gap you definitely need wedges. I rarely use them and if I want one I usually cut one with the saw from the wood at hand. Wedges can also be used to split wood. They are handy if you get your blade jammed, but it is a lot easier to use them before this happens. Don't use steel wedges near the saw, plastic or wood is cheaper on chains. Used to hold open a cut they don't need a lot of force applied. A large hammer will do, or a lump of wood. I usually just watch the top of the cut and pull the saw out sideways when it closes the right amount. If there is a big gap under the trunk/branch I pack it with something to support the weight. As I cut along, withdrawing the saw, the tree slowly sags down onto the packing until it is supported. Then go back and finish the cuts. I had to do a lot of this today. More bridged branches than you can poke a stick at.

Dean

Oldneweng
10th Jun 2017, 10:46 PM
A tale about a jammed chainsaw.

A friends father worked in the forests around the Warburton area when he was young. The very first chainsaw in the area was brought out to stage a demo. It got stuck in the tree and my friends father and his work mate had to cut it out with a 2 handed crosscut saw. Also this bloke had a work mate who smoked rollies. They wanted a small ruler one day, but didn't have anything they could use. The suggestion was forwarded to the Tally Ho company that they could print a ruler on their paper packets........ and guess what?

Dean

Mutawintji
10th Jun 2017, 11:17 PM
I usually just watch the top of the cut and pull the saw out sideways when it closes the right amount. If there is a big gap under the trunk/branch I pack it with something to support the weight. As I cut along, withdrawing the saw, the tree slowly sags down onto the packing until it is supported. Then go back and finish the cuts. I had to do a lot of this today. More bridged branches than you can poke a stick at.

Dean

Ok ... so have I got this right.

Lets say your cutting 300mm billets. So you cut each billet and withdraw the blade as soon as it becomes apparent the gap is gunna close. And you travel along the trunk repeating this so that the whole trunk eventually settles on the ground contour. Then you go back and cut through the closed gaps and finish the cut on each billet. Is that right?

Just like if I was bending box tubing or angle iron. I can't believe I've never thought of that. Sometimes I've had to tow the log just to get the chain saw out :(

Oldneweng
11th Jun 2017, 12:33 AM
Thats right except it is better to keep it off the ground as much as possible. Depends on the situation. I often cut some rings to pack under the log. A trawalla jack can be useful as well. It is much easier to cut wood when it is off the ground. You also need to get the cut as deep as possible to get the log to sag more with each cut. This is where your judgement comes in.

If you are cutting a branch that is angled upwards put some billets under where it will fall such that you have as much as possible of the branch hanging over the billets without it tipping over. Then you have a length hanging in the air ready to be cut. On a long branch you might then do the bridging technique with more packing further back.

When you are lazy like me you look for all the easy ways.

Dean

Jekyll and Hyde
11th Jun 2017, 08:12 PM
Just to go back a bit, as I believe no-one quite answered the question I think you were asking - the new clutch drum is a rim drive type sprocket, where the old drum is a spur type sprocket. They both do the same job, but the main idea is that for heavy users a rim drive is better, as you can simply replace the outer rim when it gets worn, as opposed to changing the entire clutch drum as you do with a spur type sprocket. The outer rims are cheaper than a spur sprocket...

A little more info here...
Sprockets - Welcome To Chainsaws Online (http://www.chainsawsparesonline.com.au/sprockets.html)

*EDIT*
And one more thought, I noticed somewhere you mentioned you've been eyeballing the amount of oil to put in your premix - definitely measure it out, and keep it the same each time, and you'll spend less time adjusting the tune. More oil in the fuel = a leaner mixture, and vice versa. Think of it as you've set the carb to deliver X amount of premix for a certain amount of air - whatever oil is in that premix goes to lubricating the motor. So you can imagine if (numbers exaggerated for the sake of argument) you have 50% petrol and 50% oil, and you then change it to 75% petrol and 25% oil, the engine has a lot more actual fuel delivered in that amount X, although the amount of air is the same.

Mutawintji
12th Jun 2017, 06:36 PM
Thanks for explaining both those things. I couldn't figure out why anybody would reinvent the wheel (regarding the clutch drum) I'll email the site-link and see if they have one for a Makita 3/8" (Dolmar) .. if they do it's not listed.

I'll get a measure and start producing the same oil-fuel mix everytime.

Greg

.RC.
12th Jun 2017, 08:06 PM
Thanks for explaining both those things. I couldn't figure out why anybody would reinvent the wheel (regarding the clutch drum) I'll email the site-link and see if they have one for a Makita 3/8" (Dolmar) .. if they do it's not listed.

I'll get a measure and start producing the same oil-fuel mix everytime.

Greg

Why do you want a new clutch drum or sprocket? They should last a long time.

Oldneweng
12th Jun 2017, 08:41 PM
It is usually just a matter of working out which sprocket your saw takes. If you email them they should know which one, but make sure you get the real part number not just an oem one. Keep a record of the part number. I notice that your sprocket is held on with a circlip. That should make it easy. All the ones I have worked on have been a left handed nut.

Does your bar have a grease hole for the sprocket tip?

I have had an interesting last couple of days cutting wood.

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My chainsaws with a wirebrush for size comparison.

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The Manna Gum I am clearing up. I cut some of it just after it fell in January because it was over the drive.

368308

Saturday evening looking East.

368309

Saturday evening looking West. These 2 pics show how complicated this job was. I lifted that branch with the jack so it was clear of the ground at the far right end and then cut up as far as I could reach then took the jack out. I used the jack in a number of places to get branches off the ground for cutting.

368310

Here is some rings under the trunk to catch it. I did all the cuts visible, withdrawing the saw. By this stage the cuts were not closing very much. With the help of a couple of wedges I finished the last 2 cuts and lifted that piece out with the jack. I finished all these cuts except the far left one. I had bit of trouble with the last few. The second ring from the end had a branch 125mm diam punched about 400mm straight down. It took quite a lot of work to get the last 2 out with a headache coming on, but I was determined to finish that last cut for the day. Now I have the rest of the trunk left to do, at least as far as it is worth cutting. It is likely to get hollow and dirty inside although it is still solid wood up to this point.

368311

Everywhere I go around the house area cutting / splitting wood I am followed by this guy and his family. About 20 of them. He is a difficult fellow to get a picture of.

Dean

Oldneweng
12th Jun 2017, 08:46 PM
Why do you want a new clutch drum or sprocket? They should last a long time.

The clutch drum is part of the sprocket. The sprocket should be replaced regularly. As I said before I buy 2 chains and a sprocket to go with them. The advantage of this is that the chains and sprocket start new and wear together evenly. When these chains are worn out buy 2 more chains and a sprocket. The sprockets that fit my saws are dirt cheap.

Dean

Mutawintji
12th Jun 2017, 10:21 PM
(.RC) Well, I just thought that would make the two different bars and chains interchangeable without the risk of swapping drums and losing the circlip which is a very strong fit. The different outer rims (female) fit the same male drum spline. So the same drum stays on.

That's the impression I got from the site that Jekyll and Hyde posted.

is that correct?

Greg

PS: That's wrong, I just need to buy a 3/8 outer rim. I already have the drum. I only got a little brain :)

Mutawintji
12th Jun 2017, 10:53 PM
Dean

Thanx for that tutorial. I will use that method and see how it goes. The trees you're cutting are huge (HUGE :)) I'm not dealing with anything that big. And nearly all my trunks are straight and any branches are insignificant. But against that, I'm never on flat ground.

My guess is you have maybe 3-4 tonne of firewood there. I only carry 150 kg of billets at a time, or tow a 2 metre length of trunk. That tree you have would keep me busy for a week getting it back to base.

I think my saw would be somewhere in size midway between your two.

Did you make a special arm for your jack. I couldn't see the arm in the photo. Is that one of those jacks you see strapped to 4WD?

I too have the little wrens. I have waterbaths on the deck for them. The guests love photographing them. They go all over my decks and around my windows and doors checking the spider webs etc for tiny insects. They're a very venturesome little bird and have become used to me and guests. Recently I was welding in the entry to the sea container (workshop) and a King Parrot landed on the door and started watching.

I didn't want to blind him with the arc, so I put my back to him and leant over the work. But he wasn't having that, he flew down and landed on my head. At first I didn't know what had happened, but he leant forward upside down and looked me in the eye thru the visor. I burst out laughing heheee.

Mutawintji
12th Jun 2017, 10:58 PM
No, there is no external way to grease the needle rollers in the drum hub. I asked Makita about this and they said just smear a tiny amount on the rollers and refit once every other year?

To be honest, they didn't sound certain about any of my questions.

Oldneweng
12th Jun 2017, 11:36 PM
I would guess 3 tonne on the ground and another 2 in the trunk although I won't be cutting all of it. I would call that tree large. Huge is 2m diam trunk and over. I once parked a Toyota Corolla station wagon inside the remains of an ancient Red Gum. The ring of external wood was all that was left and not much of that. The wagon fitted into the circle with ease. That tree probably fell before Captain Cook came a visiting.

There are quite a few fallen trees and branches in that paddock, but we try to leave them so it is natural. There are a lot of native grasses and other plants as well as trees in there and we have planted many new trees. I am only cutting this one because it is close to the drive.

I will bring my splitter up near the wood and split it into a trailer.

368312

My splitter.

It is one of those jacks. I haven't done anything to it although I have thought about it. Because the jack sits to the side you have to be careful how it is positioned or the log will just tilt and fall off. A neighbour has one of these designed for forest work, as far as I know. It has a hook to dig into the wood.

I was leaning against the trunk today drinking a coffee watching the dog you see in the pictures stalking a magpie very slowly. Stop, creep forward, stop......... The maggie stayed just out of reach. The dog laid down then the maggie turned around and walked towards her then veered off. Charlie took off after it. Funny to watch. Maggies are the only birds the dogs are allowed to chase because the maggies love it. Just another game to them. We have a lot of birds around so we won't have a cat on the place.

Dean

Oldneweng
12th Jun 2017, 11:46 PM
No, there is no external way to grease the needle rollers in the drum hub. I asked Makita about this and they said just smear a tiny amount on the rollers and refit once every other year?

To be honest, they didn't sound certain about any of my questions.

Wrong end. The sprocket at the bar tip. If they have a grease hole it will just be a tiny hole just outside the ring of rivets. I found the little grease gun and did the bar on my big saw yesterday which is what made me think of it.

I would not go to those Makita people for advice. Find somebody knowledgable about chainsaws. It is easy in my area because there are chainsaws everywhere and there is a bloke about 90km away who specialises in lawnmowers and chainsaws. Walk into his workshop and there is probably 100 saws around. Good bloke to deal with too. He doesn't mind giving advice. Lots of places just say bring it in. Going to see him tomorrow actually. Need to find some starter motor brushes for a Chinese motor I fitted to our ride on mower.

Dean

Oldneweng
13th Jun 2017, 12:00 AM
(.RC) Well, I just thought that would make the two different bars and chains interchangeable without the risk of swapping drums and losing the circlip which is a very strong fit. The different outer rims (female) fit the same male drum spline. So the same drum stays on.

That's the impression I got from the site that Jekyll and Hyde posted.

is that correct?

Greg

PS: That's wrong, I just need to buy a 3/8 outer rim. I already have the drum. I only got a little brain :)

So both drive sprockets are removable and fit on the same spline? If that is the case can someone tell Richard that I was wrong! :D

Greg, if your concern about losing the circlip is based on ping, tinkle, oh %$^, then you should maybe get a spare before ping.......:U Been there, done that, many times.

Dean

Mutawintji
13th Jun 2017, 01:05 AM
Wrong end. The sprocket at the bar tip. If they have a grease hole it will just be a tiny hole just outside the ring of rivets. I found the little grease gun and did the bar on my big saw yesterday which is what made me think of it.


Dean

Oooops .. I had just presumed that the bar oil lubricated the outer sprocket. There is nothing in the manual. I'll check both bars tomorrow.

And yes, from Jeckyll and Hydes link, you fit the drum with the male spline and then you just exchange outer splines rims (female) for different bars and chains.

So as I already have the drum spline and one female rim spline for 0.335 chain then all I need is another female for the 0.375 chain (3/8"?) and I can exchange chains without having to change the drum as well. At present the drum that drives the 0.375 chain is 7 years old and so are the needle-rollers. So this way I don't have to buy another spur-drum ... just a 0.375 rim spline.

Another thing the article said was that rim splines are self-locating on the drive spline, whereas on spur drums the chain has to locate itself on the spur. So with the rim drive the tension on the chain should stay more rigid and for longer periods.

And yes, there is a champagne-cork factor to the circlip. It's a very thick circlip and strong. You wouldn't want to remove it in the field, so I should get a spare.

Greg

Mutawintji
13th Jun 2017, 01:29 AM
Not many people here choose anything other than Stihl? Is this like a Toyota thing where 'the devil you know is better than the devil you don't'

Tho not experienced on other make, I'd happily buy Makita (Dolmar) again, no problem.

Greg

Mutawintji
13th Jun 2017, 09:40 AM
I checked it out this morning. Everything I said is wrong. There is a thrust washer under the circlip and it's larger than the spline and so outer spline-rims cannot be swapped without removing the circlip. Obviously to prevent the chain from sliding off the drum.

Sorry, I only got a little brain

Greg :((

Oldneweng
13th Jun 2017, 11:38 AM
Not many people here choose anything other than Stihl? Is this like a Toyota thing where 'the devil you know is better than the devil you don't'

Tho not experienced on other make, I'd happily buy Makita (Dolmar) again, no problem.

Greg

I think you do get a bit of the Holden / Ford type of this brand is better than than that. I have owned several brands other than these. I also have an Echo, that is Mobilco badged and has not been used in years. I pulled it out yesterday to look at the starter cord. The Husky's cord needed replacing. I decided to give it a go. Tipped out what passed for fuel :C squirted in a bit of starter spray, gave it a couple of pulls and off it went.

The biggest arguments seem to be between Husqvarna and Stihl. Those 100 saws in the shop I mentioned are a sea of orange with the odd blob of different colour. Going back quite a few years there were a lot of professional pine fallers working in this area. My understanding is that they predominantly used Husqvarna. Virtually all done by machine now.

Availability of spare parts would be my main concern when making a choice. Unfortunately my Husky is so old that parts are no longer available. I have had to replace the coil and the oil pump in recent years. Both of these were sourced by searching the net and both came from the US. The oil pump was brand new. I could not afford to replace the saw with a new one.

Dean

BobL
13th Jun 2017, 01:24 PM
No, there is no external way to grease the needle rollers in the drum hub. I asked Makita about this and they said just smear a tiny amount on the rollers and refit once every other year?

To be honest, they didn't sound certain about any of my questions.

With an external or rim sprocket where you can easily pull the clutch drum off I clean and grease those rollers at least 4 times a year but I often do it also when I change rim sprockets. On those that have an internal sprocket I do it once a year. I have seen some saws where the that bearing has been so badly jammed with saw dust that it had scored the crankshaft.

I have only greased a nose sprocket a few times maybe back in the 1990's. It depends what I'm cutting as to what I now do for lube on nose sprockets. Milling is a relatively clean activity so the nose never ends up in dirt. There is also a bucket load of oil is dumped onto the chain near the nose by an auxiliary oiler. For other saws I usually clean that sprocket with compressed air when I change chains and make sure it's moving freely and send a couple of squirts of bar oil down the gap between the sprocket and bar.

Mutawintji
13th Jun 2017, 02:26 PM
Well, don't go choking to death on laughter .. but .. When I run out of bar oil, which I often do, then I make a mix of engine oil and auto-transmission fluid.

As I said, before you die of laughter, this actually works. As well, before I start the saw I rotate the chain by hand and using a needle bottle of transmission fluid I squirt the link between every tooth. The Proof that this works is that when I took the worn out chain (and bar) to Stihl in Kingaroy for a replacement chain, the guy wouldn't believe the chain came from the bar. The chain was worn to buggery but the bar didn't need linishing. He asked me a whole lotta questions, how hard I press, do I cut up, blah, blah ... before I convinced him that the chain and the bar had worked as a pair for 2 years. He measured the groove and couldn't find any wear. Maybe Dolmar make indestructible bars, or maybe my oil mix is the elixir to long life ... heheeee

(Bob), I'm good with bearings and I check the needle roller by hand as well as the wheel on the end of the bar. The reason I asked Makita about greasing is I thought it might be a run-dry bearing such as the new ceramic ball races you can buy. It seemed to me the ideal place (hi temp, dust laden) to use a run dry bearing.


Greg

Mutawintji
13th Jun 2017, 03:12 PM
By the way (from the Kafe Zac thread) this thing has passed all it's sea-trials. A veteran now of six different groups of guests. Nothing has been placed on top of it, and even when the fire is over-stoked you can place your hands on it and tho hot you can't get burnt.

maybe I should sell these things heheeee

Greg


368324

.RC.
13th Jun 2017, 07:49 PM
I checked it out this morning. Everything I said is wrong. There is a thrust washer under the circlip and it's larger than the spline and so outer spline-rims cannot be swapped without removing the circlip. Obviously to prevent the chain from sliding off the drum.

Sorry, I only got a little brain

Greg :((

Don't worry, I got short changed in other parts of my body. :rolleyes:

I am not sure ATF does anything. Remember an automatic transmission oil can not be super slippery otherwise the clutches and brakes in the transmission will never hold. I have seen people use just engine oil. Chain bar oil has a high viscosity so the oil does not just all get thrown off when the chain goes round the nose of the bar.

As for stihl verses jonserd red vrs husqvarna versus dolmar verses shindawa.

It seems some manufacturers were better at making various sized saws then others and they all made crap models at some point.

There are all sorts of emissions control stuff various manufacturers tried. We have a small stihl here and it is a bit of a crap saw. Unless the fuel is super fresh it does not want to run properly. But our slightly older husqvarnas, it is like they will run on crude oil.

The new Stihls have a computer controlled carburetor. And amusingly when we bought out MS660 back in 2015, I was looking at buying one from the US and importing as it was slightly cheaper, but the US ones were crippled as the US had emissions laws but Australia did not at the time, so the AU version of the MS660 put out 1hp more and the only difference was the exhaust and carburetor.

Oldneweng
14th Jun 2017, 12:44 PM
It is easy in my area because there are chainsaws everywhere and there is a bloke about 90km away who specialises in lawnmowers and chainsaws. Walk into his workshop and there is probably 100 saws around.

So much for that idea. I checked yesterday just to make sure and the shop is closed up. It did not surprise me tho. Times are achanging. Less and less people doing the work themselves so hiring profesionals. Virtually no pine fallers anymore. He may be operating from his residence or something. I guess I should have had a closer look to see if there was a notice in the window instead of just lazily driving past. I did have one surprise tho. We were close to where we lived 27yrs ago so we went and had a look and almost nothing seems to have changed in the whole street. Wow! 27 years and no change.


When I run out of bar oil, which I often do, then I make a mix of engine oil and auto-transmission fluid.

New engine oil? Sounds expensive to me. I bought 20 litres of bar oil yesterday so I must be thinking of doing this wood cutting for a while yet. :doh::D That cost me $90 which is $4.50 / litre. I used to use old engine oil years ago, but bar oil has tackifiers mixed in so it sticks to the chain and bar and is all I use now that I have good saws, bars and chains. I think it is more likely that you baby the saw. You probably sharpen the chain when it should be instead of "there's just bit more to go" etc. Not that I do that. :no: I read on a website a couple of days ago that when a chain needed sharpening you should take it in to a shop to have it done. Maybe that is what we are doing wrong. The shop I went to yesterday had a price list on the counter. $20 to sharpen a big chain, $12 for a small chain. 24" cutoff point I think.

Dean

Mutawintji
14th Jun 2017, 03:05 PM
Don't worry, I got short changed in other parts of my body. :rolleyes:

I am not sure ATF does anything. Remember an automatic transmission oil can not be super slippery otherwise the clutches and brakes in the transmission will never hold. I have seen people use just engine oil. Chain bar oil has a high viscosity so the oil does not just all get throw off the bar

It's just that they were the only two chemicals I had to hand :)

I added the transmission fluid just to make it less viscous in case the engine oil was not suited to the oil galleys of the saw. Better to have it flooding out than not at all I thought at the time. It has worked, for whatever reason, as the bar has not worn ... or it could be that Dolmar make a very good bar, despite my mistreatment.

The disadvantage is that you have to clean the dust-extractor volute quiet often. The sawdust gets damp with oil and clogs.

I oil the chain with transmission fluid before I start the saw. It seems to lubricate and act as solvent. That is, you start the saw, and before the bar oil has begun to reach the chain the auto fluid flies off everywhere and takes all the gunk sawdust etc caught on the chain with it.

By the time the bar oil replaces the auto fluid you have a nice clean chain to set off with.

ummmmm ... I wouldn't necessarily take my advice, it works for me. But I know nothing about saws, just experimented with my own.

Greg

Mutawintji
14th Jun 2017, 03:23 PM
I think it is more likely that you baby the saw. You probably sharpen the chain when it should be instead of "there's just bit more to go" etc. Not that I do that. :no: I read on a website a couple of days ago that when a chain needed sharpening you should take it in to a shop to have it done. Maybe that is what we are doing wrong. The shop I went to yesterday had a price list on the counter. $20 to sharpen a big chain, $12 for a small chain. 24" cutoff point I think.

Dean

You're probably right about me babying it, but it's the only one I have and I need it.

Makita recommend, in the manual, that you have the chain machined sharpened after every half-dozen hand sharpens. That's because with a hand file you tend to round edges over time.

I have never had a chain sharpened by machine. When I was first teaching myself I was meticulous about angles, heights and length of tooth. All this I got from the book. I usually full-on sharpen in the workshop and only hone-sharpen when cutting in the forest.

It only takes a few minutes to hone a chain once you are familiar and confident with sharpening. I usually cut down a black-wattle (I hate black wattles. Grass pretending to be a tree) and jam the saw in the forks.

The absolute best thing about field sharpening is that you immediately feel, and hear, the effects of your sharpening. You can tell you've done it right or wrong straightway. This instant feedback is the best teacher, tho it can be frustrating too.

Anyway, your confidence builds and eventually you can sharpen the chain on any angle of support standing on any slope. But it's an apprenticeship and takes a while before you are good enough and familiar enough to perceive results.

It works for me, takes only a few minutes, gives me confidence and cost nothing ... hehee

:)

Oldneweng
14th Jun 2017, 03:59 PM
You're probably right about me babying it, but it's the only one I have and I need it.

Nothing wrong with looking after your tools.


That's because with a hand file you tend to round edges over time.

Is that what Makita says? I don't know how this is possible. What sort of sharpening do you use? There is a flat file guide that clamps onto the file. one that holds the file at the right angles and slides on 2 little shafts. It clamps on the bar. There is a 12v sharpener, an attachment for a dremel and the larger electric type, 240v. Probably some others as well. The real pro's just use a file and do all the angles with their hands.

I have had a saw sharpened professionally once. I think he did it at 35deg which is common for wood falling. It took ages to get it back to 30deg.


All this I got from the book. I usually full-on sharpen in the workshop and only hone-sharpen when cutting in the forest.

What do you call hone?


I usually cut down a black-wattle

What do you call a black wattle? Acacia mearnsii, Acacia melanoxylon or something else? Both are native to our area, both are beautiful trees and we have planted lots of both of them. Neither could be considered grass in any stretch of the imagination tho so I guess you have a localised common name for something else. Both can be good firewood although insects just lurve mearnsii. You don't leave it laying around.


It works for me, takes only a few minutes, gives me confidence and cost nothing ... hehee

A 28" bar takes a bit longer. :roll:

Dean

Mutawintji
14th Jun 2017, 05:32 PM
I only have a guide template that locks to the file. Also the new chain has 30 deg line engraved on each tooth.

Because our arms are cantilever, as me move our arm forward it changes the height of our hand as the arm extends. We counter balance this with our brain in order for our hand to remain steady. Mistakes creep in and become amplified over time. When I was a little baby apprentice we had to file with 'blue'. That's where you learn how unsteady your hand is .... heheee

My biggest problem here, by far, is Lantana. Black wattle is a small weed like tree that springs up in any cacant space at the expense of native grasses. The Bunyas are an isloated Jurassic forest and have some weird grasses, plants, and especially trees. I use Grazon on both lantana and black wattle in my immediate vicinity. Grazon is 80 a litre if you poor. And around 600 if you can afford 20 litres at a time.

It kills (absolutely dead) canes like lantana, root-shooters like black wattle. I won't hurt trees unless you deliberately cover them in it and the native grasses seem to approve of it with a smile. The hazard sheet is mostly caution thru skin irritant. But it's very expensive.

Honing is like when I sharpen my chefs knife on the diamond stone. My knife-draw across the stone become lighter and lighter. I sharpen my knife and my little axe till they shave hair on arm or leg. When they do that, then I hone them.

Greg :)

Oldneweng
14th Jun 2017, 08:02 PM
Black wattle is a small weed like tree that springs up in any cacant space at the expense of native grasses.

Sounds totally different to the ones around here.


root-shooters like black wattle.

It doesn't sound like it is actually a wattle. The acacia family of which wattles are part of are not capable of coppicing which is developing shoots when the tree is cut / damaged, as far as I know. Eucalypts are great at this which is why they survive most fires. Can you take some pictures of leaves and bark please. Flowers would be good if possible too. I just use a type of glyphosate, but I don't have anything to kill wholesale except grass sometimes. I have a 20l drum that has lasted for years.


Honing is like when I sharpen my chefs knife

Sorry, I meant what do you call honing the saw chain? I have never heard of anyone honing a chain because of the way the chain teeth are made. It is not the steel of the tooth that provides the sharpness, it is a coating of hard chrome on the cutting edges. The top and side of the tooth. When you file or grind this chrome is chipped leaving a fine jagged edge. It is when this very sharp edge is gone that the chain needs sharpening. It is also how you tell if you have sharpened it enough. Run your finger along the top of the tooth, towards the rear of the tooth very lightly and you will feel the serrated edge grab at your skin. This is what I have been taught anyway.

Dean

.RC.
14th Jun 2017, 09:29 PM
It doesn't sound like it is actually a wattle. The acacia family of which wattles are part of are not capable of coppicing which is developing shoots when the tree is cut / damaged, as far as I know. Eucalypts are great at this which is why they survive most fires. Can you take some pictures of leaves and bark please. Flowers would be good if possible too. I just use a type of glyphosate, but I don't have anything to kill wholesale except grass sometimes. I have a 20l drum that has lasted for years.





There are a few species called generic "black wattle". This one is probably the one referred to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acacia_leiocalyx

It is quite common in narrow leaf iron bark country. The wattles up here are extremely good at suckering from roots, they are hard to kill with Tordon as you kill the upper main plant and a million come to the funeral and decide to stay. In fact in continents like Africa the wattle is a pest plant.

We have a wattle here called corkwood wattle, that is covered with prickles. Such is the diversity of the Acacia family

Oldneweng
14th Jun 2017, 11:40 PM
It certainly is a diverse family. Lots of acacia's outside their normal distribution are pest species. We had coastal wattle growing beside some of the roads near here. Nice bright green foliage compared to many and yellow flowers. Natural to the coast 140 odd km south, but a pest around here. Common names vary a lot in different areas. I go by the names in the books I have, one of which is Trees and Shrubs of South Eastern Australia which is regarded as the Bible for tree identification in this area anyway. We have been on a number of field trips with specialists in plant identification. We wanted to get a better idea about planting trees on the property. This book does not cover Qld tho.

Dean

mcostello
15th Jun 2017, 01:07 AM
I have been using a chain saw for more than 30 years cutting firewood for home. I use a Dremel type electric grinder held by hand to sharpen all My saw chains. I never have Them commercially sharpened. I use the biggest diameter stone that will fit in the gullet of the tooth. A battery powered Dremel would make things go faster in the bush. Don't worry excessively about the angles just try to keep them the same.

Mutawintji
15th Jun 2017, 10:47 AM
Thanx for that. A battery dremel is a great idea for honing the teeth in the bush.

I'm starting to think there are as many ways to sharpen a chainsaw as there are chainsaws. Heheee

Greg

Mutawintji
15th Jun 2017, 11:26 AM
These are Black Wattles


368345

368344

368343

368342

368341

Oldneweng
15th Jun 2017, 11:44 AM
These are Black Wattles






Thanks for the pictures. I am not used to seeing seed pods like that on a wattle. This is one of the forms of acacia that does not have leaves on it. The only leaf form that acacia's have is the feathered type. Don't worry I am only showing off my knowledge. :roll: I have to do something with it.

The leaf like structure in the picture is a "Phyllode" which is "a winged leaf stalk which functions as a leaf." (Google) Ok I am finished now. :D

Dean

Mutawintji
15th Jun 2017, 12:10 PM
Sorry, I meant what do you call honing the saw chain? I have never heard of anyone honing a chain because of the way the chain teeth are made. It is not the steel of the tooth that provides the sharpness, it is a coating of hard chrome on the cutting edges. The top and side of the tooth. When you file or grind this chrome is chipped leaving a fine jagged edge. It is when this very sharp edge is gone that the chain needs sharpening. It is also how you tell if you have sharpened it enough. Run your finger along the top of the tooth, towards the rear of the tooth very lightly and you will feel the serrated edge grab at your skin. This is what I have been taught anyway.

Dean

I'm sorry. I tend to use terms for my own meaning. My methods, and methodology, are probably sacrilege and heresy to anyone who really knows what they're doing.

I'm reluctant to describe my method of sharpening because it will cause outrage amongst the true-sharpeners .. hee

I sharpen my chef's knife, my axe, my chainsaw, my bush-knife using the exact same method for all. There are three steps,

Sharpening, Honing, and Steeling. Each process is different and does a different job. I will write a post on how I sharpen (but I'm sure I will cop flak ..hehee)

Regarding firewood woodcutting:
I split my billets into three different categories, Tinder, Splits, and Bricks.

I use a few 100grams of Tinder to light the fire, then I build a coal-bed using between 6-8 Splits, and from that point I only place Bricks in the fire. I seat the bricks in the coals.

A Brick has a very low surface-area to mass ratio. Tinder has an extremely high surface-area to mass ratio. The surface area of the firewood, not the mass, is the only part of the firewood that can contact Oxygen. Without Oxygen, wood cannot burn no matter how hot it is. (And in this simple fact lies the secret to the Indian Fire-Walking trick, true)

So Tinder burns instantly (In contact with more Oxygen) and Bricks burn all night (very little contact with Oxygen. So, for me, the control of my fire is all about how much Oxygen I let in and how much surface area is available. You may have noticed in your fireplace that once you have a large coal bed you can place a split or a brick in and it doesn't burn. That's because the coals are hotter and demand all the available oxygen. So the brick sits on the red hot coals but doesn't burn. The brick will only burn as the coal bed decreases, and as it burns it creates new coals ... so a brick can keep your whole house warm all night, no problem.

I cut the tinder with my axe which is razor-sharp. The Splits and Bricks I cut with a block-Splitter ... it never gets sharpened. A Brick is a 200mm diameter billet (usually) with the four cheeks taken off with the block-splitter. A Brick is about 150mm across and 300-400mm long. I cut the quantity of all three types in ratio to their use. Altho guests blow this to buggery. A recent guest went thru 10kg of Tinder and a whole box of firelighters (24) in a two night stay. I could have lit 24 fires with that quantity.




This is Tinder.

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These are Splits

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These are Bricks

368349

368348

Greg

Ps: I will write a post on how I sharpen ... you can use a laugh ... Heheee

Mutawintji
15th Jun 2017, 12:20 PM
Thanks for the pictures. I am not used to seeing seed pods like that on a wattle. This is one of the forms of acacia that does not have leaves on it. The only leaf form that acacia's have is the feathered type. Don't worry I am only showing off my knowledge. :roll: I have to do something with it.

The leaf like structure in the picture is a "Phyllode" which is "a winged leaf stalk which functions as a leaf." (Google) Ok I am finished now. :D

Dean

When I said 'root-shooting' I didn't mean that if you cut it, it shoots again from the roots. I suspect that black wattle spreads out it's roots and new trees grow from the roots. So that a clump of black wattle (20-30 trees) are all connected to the same root system, they share it ... and this is their secret, how they spread so quickly.

Up here they're considered an interim canopy plant, along with many others. That is, a tree falls leaving a gap in the canopy, these plants quickly fill the gap ... but they're only temporary occupants because underneath them the red cedars, the hoops, the Bunyas are all shooting and will eventually dominate. The interim plants provide cover and protection for the true-trees (cedars, hoops, etc) while they're saplings.

(I think :) )

Greg

Oldneweng
15th Jun 2017, 12:45 PM
I'm reluctant to describe my method of sharpening because it will cause outrage amongst the true-sharpeners .. hee

Probably. Its human nature. I try to present my knowledge in the hope it may help someone and stiil recognise it is up to the individual.


I sharpen my chef's knife, my axe, my chainsaw, my bush-knife using the exact same method for all. There are three steps,

There are different methods for sharpening different blades. A scyth for instance never has metal removed when sharpened. The edge is peened. My idea with sharpening a chainsaw is to get it done, with the serated edge and get back to work. I haven't used an axe or block splitter for many years, but this is mainly due to a medical condition which has reduced my lung capacity to about 65%.


Regarding firewood woodcutting:
I split my billets into three different categories, Tinder, Splits, and Bricks.

I do the same sort of thing, but I just call them kindling, small bits and big bits.:U Your bricks are the same size as we use in the kitchen range, but in the lounge we use much bigger pieces. I have been using slow combustion heaters for over 30yrs. I find that a single piece of wood does not keep burning as well as 2 or more. The space in between seems to keep the heat going. The lounge fire was stoked at about 10:00 last night and now need more wood. I have to go and do that before it is too late and now I also have to go and start a hydraulic splitter according to a phone call from SWMBO who is at a friends place who just kicked her husband ?) out. He is a useless twit who I have mentioned on this forum before. Some may remember.

Dean

BobL
15th Jun 2017, 04:03 PM
Sorry, I meant what do you call honing the saw chain? I have never heard of anyone honing a chain because of the way the chain teeth are made. It is not the steel of the tooth that provides the sharpness, it is a coating of hard chrome on the cutting edges. The top and side of the tooth. When you file or grind this chrome is chipped leaving a fine jagged edge. It is when this very sharp edge is gone that the chain needs sharpening. It is also how you tell if you have sharpened it enough. Run your finger along the top of the tooth, towards the rear of the tooth very lightly and you will feel the serrated edge grab at your skin. This is what I have been taught anyway.

I agree Dean. Unless chainsaw racing, where it's all over in seconds, it pointless to do anything beyond sharpening with a file or grinder. Chainsawing is NOT a fine slicing activity where there are significant benefits of using a honed edge. Instead its violent puncturing/ tearing action. Any superfine edge created on the hard chrome edge or steel is destroyed in first few seconds of a cut. In chainsaw milling where its all end grain cutting so it's really hard on cutters, starting the cut on the end of a semi-dry or dry log that may have some dirt embedded in it can blunt the chain in the first few cm of cut. When face with this I dock 6" off the end and it makes a big difference in the chain lasting the fun distance of a wide cut.

"Little but often" was my old mans motto.
The way he taught me was "forget the feel", instead look for "glints" along the edge of the cutter. If you can see a glint it's the steel underneath the chrome or there's a bit bit of chrome plating busted off and more filing is needed. This is a doubly good method because you can do this without stopping the sharpening process. A good pair of head magnifiers helps.

Oldneweng
15th Jun 2017, 08:31 PM
"Little but often" was my old mans motto.
The way he taught me was "forget the feel", instead look for "glints" along the edge of the cutter. If you can see a glint it's the steel underneath the chrome or there's a bit bit of chrome plating busted off and more filing is needed. This is a doubly good method because you can do this without stopping the sharpening process. A good pair of head magnifiers helps.

Hmm. I know what you mean by the glint. I touched a bit of weld mesh with the little saw on Monday. Just scratched the surface of it. When I went to sharpen the chain I could see glints. I got out a loupe and I could see the tiny ragged bits where the chrome had chipped off.

368352

A bit more wood on the ground now. That is all I am going to cut off this log I think. I am now onto the splitting.

The splitter I had to go and try to start this morning was interesting. I will start a new thread about it. I did get it started. Dirty plug.

Dean

Oldneweng
15th Jun 2017, 09:07 PM
When I said 'root-shooting' I didn't mean that if you cut it, it shoots again from the roots.

Yes, but I think it is the same mechanism that allows this to happen. Coppice is a term used to describe this ability. None of the wattles around here are capable of it. Poplars however are very good at it, over very long distances. Robinia trees are also very good at it.

Dean

Mutawintji
16th Jun 2017, 05:09 PM
This is how I sharpen the saw.

On the bench locked in a vice I do 3 forward strokes with the 4.85mm. (0.375 chain)

I can usually tell by the friction if a tooth needs more than that. If so I examine that tooth and fix it. If this means taking that tooth back too far, then I sharpen it as best I can (without reducing it) and leave it, because I don't want it shorter than the others by more than a few flyshits. This doesn't happen often so it's no big deal.

Then I hone the chain with a 4.5mm file. One solid-soft stroke and backed-off to feather stroke by the fourth stroke.

Every 3-4 times it's in the vice I measure the teeth for length and the height of the lead-in-posts.

When I'm in the forest and I know the saw is going well but falling short of peak revs then I hone the chain. This can happen a few times in the day. This only takes minutes and it's always time for a coffee and a fag. This usually works and I can feel the difference.

I suppose if you're using many saws and interchanging different size saws in your every day then maybe you don't notice the difference. And maybe it's not enough to matter anyway. But this is the only saw I've ever owned. It's seven years old. We're familiar. We started work together on the same day. I can tell when the little bastard's got a hangover and doesn't want to work.

This is where I measure the diameter of the files. I'm not sure if this is correct.


4.85mm

368376

4.5mm

368375

Greg

PS: The only timber I have ever cut is narrow leafed ironbark, long dead. And quite often has spent years laying on the ground. (Termites never touch ironbark around here) Different timbers may behave differently?

:)

Mutawintji
16th Jun 2017, 05:21 PM
368352

A bit more wood on the ground now. That is all I am going to cut off this log I think. I am now onto the splitting.
Dean

If that's a Manna Gum then the timber looks (on the cross cuts) a lot like ironbark when it's still a bit green. Does it burn as well as ironbark?

Greg

Oldneweng
16th Jun 2017, 08:24 PM
If that's a Manna Gum then the timber looks (on the cross cuts) a lot like ironbark when it's still a bit green. Does it burn as well as ironbark?

At a guess given my limited knowledge of ironbark (Thanks Henry Lawson) No. Termites and other insects and grubs do attack manna gum because it is not as hard as redgum and obviously ironbark. Manna is perfectly adequate for burning, but my preference of course is redgum. I have a number of bits of it around and I plan on starting to cut some of it up soon. This includes posts and house stumps which are probably 50 - 60 years old, some biggish pieces from roadworks clearing which are old and hopefully dry and some logs dumped over my fence by a neighbour before he sold his property to Timbercorp. They are down the far paddock and need to be cut before it get too much later as there will be a swamp to negotiate if we get a normal winter.

Termites will attack redgum, but it has to be so old first that it is probably not worth using anyway.

I have only filed the lead-in-posts (raker or depth gauge) once. Total disaster. Never touched them again. They wear as the teeth are shortened. Maybe I should have a look at them again tho. Never hurts to check. When you are cutting the best and easiest way to check for sharpness and general cutting action is to look at the chips. You should have good size chips and little dust. This is why I think I should check my rakers as I noticed today the chips were not as good as they could be.


This is where I measure the diameter of the files. I'm not sure if this is correct.

I would guess so. I don't recall ever measuring one. I haven't used them for sharpening a saw for a couple of years, but I used to buy them in packs with the size on the pack and I could tell just by looking at individual files. I guess the one you have is 3/16" or 4.8mm.

I also have to look at tuning my big saw as it is not running quite right.

I have split most of the wood now. There have been many holdups since I started cutting last week. I only seem to get an hour or 2 of actual work each day. Today I waited until the petrol ran out on the splitter so I could replace the fuel hose as it was leaking at the carby. The hose was split and perished so it probably was that leaking. The hose connector is plastic and has been replaced not long ago. I think I cracked it when I removed the hose as it took a bit to work it off the fitting. Pretty sure it was not cracked before. Leaked worse than before, but still not too serious. I rang the local (55km away) mob who do Briggs and Stratton. They wanted a model number. I can't see one. Stamped into the flywheel cover. I searched really carefully, but no luck. Back on the phone and got passed to the mechanic. OHC? look on the valve cover. Nothing. Kept looking for a stamped tag somewhere and found some numbers on a steel plate covering the top and down the back of the engine. Can't read them for dirt and rust spots. Wire brush and texta showed them up, when I put my glasses on. I had to move the ute and trailer to get in to look. Part of the number looked like a model number, maybe. The booklet had a list of about 30 models on the front. One was. I have to go to town Tuesday. I will take the part in to check for the right one and make sure I have the right model number. It has been like this since Saturday week ago. I wasted about half an hour looking for the tailgate for the trailer today. :D

Dean

Mutawintji
16th Jun 2017, 10:09 PM
I have never liked Briggs and Stratton. You can buy very cheap chinese engines that, in my opinion, are much better engineered. I didn't even know B&S were still in business.

Ironbark burns hot and long ... I prize the root system of a dead tree. If you can cut it, or split it, it probably would outperform coal. Even a branch knot is super-dense. Sometimes I've driven the block splitter into a root ball 30-40 times, puffing like an old steam train, and each blow cursing myself for wasted effort .. but you're forever tempted onwards as you watch the split widen tiny bit by tiny bit. Just one more hit, just one more ....

But when you get a good burl split open it's pure pleasure putting the splits in the fire. They'll glow all night.

Apart from rootballs and knots, dead-dry-ironbark is really easy to split. It's just begging you to tap it so it can fly apart. A mechanical splitter would be overkill.

That was one crazy splitter you posted in the other thread. :)

Greg

Oldneweng
17th Jun 2017, 12:51 AM
I have never liked Briggs and Stratton. You can buy very cheap chinese engines that, in my opinion, are much better engineered. I didn't even know B&S were still in business.

Yes well I don't think they were quite as available when I bought this one. It was bought locally at sale price. I don't know whether the Chinese engines are actually better engineered. B&S and Honda motors are made in China now and the Chinese cheapies are just copies of them. I have had a problem with my ride on mower starter motor. It has a Chinese 11hp vertical motor in it. I fitted this motor when the original wore out. The starter motor brushes are worn to nothing. I have made a number of enquiries to various businesses. The place I bought it from (Adelaide) said it would be a copy of a Honda or B&S, but I haven't heard back from them. Another place had a 15hp horizontal motor on the floor and the starter motor looked identical to mine. He looked up the part and quoted $190 for the motor. No hope of just brushes. He could not say for certain it would be the right one due to the sprocket tooth number may be different, but it should be. They don't make 11hp anymore. Another of numerous searches on EBay located a starter motor which was listed to be for 11 and 13hp motors and listed dimensions, and the sprocket tooth number. Less than $60. It was actually listed as an after market Honda starter motor also fitting the Chinese ones. It is from an EBay store that I intend to consider for future chainsaw chains and bars etc. "Jono & Jonno". :rolleyes:

This motor has been pretty good, but when I first got it the flywheel sat too low on the crank and damaged the coil along with clunking. I finally got replacement parts and fitted them myself.

The B&S has performed perfectly. This plastic connector is the only thing that has gone wrong with it. 12 months sitting around doing nothing, a couple of pulls and off it goes. If I bought another motor now I would get a cheap import tho.


But when you get a good burl split open it's pure pleasure putting the splits in the fire.

Holy heck. A burl? In the fire? Don't let the woodworking guys hear that! You will be burnt at the stake.


Apart from rootballs and knots, dead-dry-ironbark is really easy to split.

The manna would probably not be worth splitting by hand. It is very stringy, but it is green. Down 6 months or so. I split everything. Forks and all and there are a lot of those.

Redgum varies from similar to the manna to "It's just begging you to tap it so it can fly apart." However it is a lot harder than manna. I have hit redgum as hard as I can and had the splitter bounce back up like a tennis ball, leaving barely a mark.


That was one crazy splitter you posted in the other thread. :)

Yes. I hope it proves to be more reliable than it looks because guess who will have to get it sorted if anything goes wrong? Hubby got the flick, about 30 years too late in my opinion and he left this behind so his little Irish exwife can split the wood that he has never done for her. He cuts wood to sell and would almost never have wood to heat the house. If he did get wood it was green. "Nothing wrong with burning green wood" he told us when we complained about this with a load he got us for some reason. Nothing wrong with burning dead wood either. :~ Guess where the dead wood is? He is short, fat and wears very daggy track pants.

Dean

Oldneweng
18th Jun 2017, 12:44 AM
I mentioned videos of stupid and incredible things done with chainsaws. Here is one to have a look at. It is a bit over 5 mins and is a mix of interesting stuff. Take a look at cutting a tree down from about 4:48. Fascinating growth of a flower just before that too.

Cheers

Dean

Mutawintji
18th Jun 2017, 09:34 AM
I think you forgot the link?

:)

Oldneweng
18th Jun 2017, 09:58 AM
Everybody is in such a hurry. Whats the rush. :D

Oops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP_zSp0tXBk

Dean

BobL
18th Jun 2017, 12:10 PM
Everybody is in such a hurry. Whats the rush. :D

I agree, it's funny how folks seem to forget about , easy, simple, safe, comfortable and fun!

Oldneweng
18th Jun 2017, 03:15 PM
I agree, it's funny how folks seem to forget about , easy, simple, safe, comfortable and fun!

Ah, the KISS principal. Also forgetting to add the promised link! :D

My excuse is that I leave the link til later because I have not been able to work out how to go back to normal text. Everything I type after a link comes up in link formatting. Then there is the problem of memory! :~

Back to grinding the rakers on my saw chain, after I make the coffee I came in to get. :2tsup:

Dean

Mutawintji
18th Jun 2017, 10:41 PM
The icon in the top left of the reply panel (a/A) flips your screen between 'what you see is what you get' and displays the HTML code underneath.

After you paste your link (doesn't matter how you do this) flip to the HTML screen. (Click the icon) Place your cursor after the last closing square bracket, usually looking like this '[/url]' or like thus '[/URL]'

Japanese Kitchen Knife Types And Styles (http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/usetype/all/index.shtml)

Now type from there. Your following text won't be connected to the link.

Flip back to your wysiwyg screen ... and there ya go.

:)

Oldneweng
19th Jun 2017, 12:49 AM
Thanks. Easy when you know how. Been thinking about asking about this for a couple of years now. No rush tho. :D

Dean