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da9jeff
29th Jan 2017, 12:24 PM
Hi,

Recently bought a Hercus ARM and a No0 mill and am starting to sort out a vfd conversion for the mill.

Can anyone tell me if this motor can be changed to delta?

The cover plate has both diagrams but i dont think wires 4 and 6 are connected.

Alternatively, has anyone managed to fit a modern motor to a No.0 mill?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170129/9eef4981a1424f0de771976f1be0aa67.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170129/144d67c4cbeae1f2ecd430c2a7a24e01.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170129/cab004aa07bc4d1934795b0e7732ca62.jpg

Cheers,
Jeff

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BobL
29th Jan 2017, 04:03 PM
Welcome to the forum.

If you change you location to something more specific you might be able to get local assistance.

If that grey insulated wire is made up of 3 independent wires it will most likely be the common point in which case they can be teased apart back to their individual insulation and the motor rewired as ∆.
If not then it's an "open up the motor search for the common point"

da9jeff
29th Jan 2017, 05:33 PM
Im in gawler SA. I'll take it to the local rewinders and see how helpful they are.

Here's a pic of the machines:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170129/940f76556d1015a95991f73fd551900a.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170129/7fc5456377909225dd5e837457b77f03.jpg

Cheers,
Jeff

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DSEL74
31st Jan 2017, 10:32 AM
The machines look in lovely condition. Good luck with the conversion and welcome.


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da9jeff
1st Feb 2017, 11:57 AM
Thanks, they were repainted by the previous owner who was a high school teacher, which is where he got the machines. They havent had much use at all.

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smxas
1st Feb 2017, 01:18 PM
[QUOTE=da9jeff;1917306]Im in gawler SA. I'll take it to the local rewinders and see how helpful they are.

Welcome to the forum Jeff.

Let us know how you get on with the re-winders.I have a couple of ASEA motors I'm looking at possibly converting as well for future use.

Thanks,
Spiro

benhoskin
3rd Feb 2017, 12:57 AM
The grey insulated wire can be traced back and can be separated, have done two myself.

da9jeff
4th Feb 2017, 08:02 PM
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Soooooo now what?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170204/0991ed6bb638f3de09c02d48f0f07b73.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170204/9da695c43f86f6e12adfb3ce4b19a21c.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170204/75bb7513d8158fb69b9e594917494292.jpg

How do I know which winding is which?

Also, this is the hercus ARM motor, doesnt seem to be a common point?:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170204/fe104dcd929a37eced41aac1856b0ab9.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170204/8cec4f8dc61847b4d3d6a2cb7cc1abc5.jpg

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jhovel
5th Feb 2017, 01:31 AM
Perfect! Go cut the rey end off at the terminal box end and pull it out.
Now all you need to do is connect 3 separate flexible wires/cables by twisting and soldering to the 3 winding copper wires. Insulate them nicely with some shrink sleeve or fibreglass sleeving and feed the 3 new conductors out through the hole the grey one went through.
Then tie the loose ends to the windings securely like the other ones are/were, to prevent them vibrating or rubbing on the rotating armature.
Now, what you have in the terminal box is each end of three separate windings. So the only trick left is to make sure you DON'T position the ends of the SAME winding opposite each other! Use a multimeter to find which pair is which of the three windings and mix them up. So that the new end of the 'red' winding in NOT opposite the red wire, the new end of the 'yellow' winding is NOT opposite the yellow wire and the new end of the green winding has only one spot to go to - which is obviously not opposite the green wire. The order is irrelevant. Convention is to put the other end of the first terminal opposite the second terminal, the second opposite the third and the third opposite the first. But it really makes no difference, as long as none are opposite their matching winding.
Then the diagram in the terminal box lid will be correct. Reassemble the motor.
That's it! You have a convertible motor. :)

da9jeff
5th Feb 2017, 10:54 AM
Awesome thanks for that, makes sense.

So once I have the 6 wires to the terminal box, do i fit jumpers as per the diagram?

Any idea with the lathe motor? Ill have another dig for a common point.

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jhovel
5th Feb 2017, 11:44 AM
You are welcome. Yes, connect as per diagrams.
For the lathe motor, keep looking for a sleeve with three ends going in. Often two one end and one at the other...

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BobL
5th Feb 2017, 12:13 PM
I usually don't bother with jumpers and just use existing terminals.

The other (originally grey insulated) end of the red insulated wire can be connected direct to the yellow insulated wire terminal.
The grey end of the yellow to the brown insulated wire terminal and
The grey end of the brown to the red insulated wire terminal.
The 3 phases go direct to the same 3 terminals.

Avoid just twitching the bare ends of the wires together and use proper crimped ring connectors for a safe secure connection.
If one of them comes loose the VFD won't like it i much.



366478

da9jeff
5th Feb 2017, 01:37 PM
Also, are any of the ebay vfd's ok to use? Im on a budget but also dont want junk.

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jhovel
5th Feb 2017, 08:57 PM
Look, Huanyang VFDs appear to be largely reliable now. I've only heard of a couple fail. My oldest is around 6 years old.
There is a cheaper version now with less adjustability and fewer terminals (not necessarily a bad thing) and I have one. It seems to work fine but I haven't had it long enough to make any judgements. It is very different - simplified - inside the Huanyang look-alike exterior and dimensions.
The Taiwanese Tecos have a good reputation at about double the cost.
Send a PM to Chris Parks here for a quote on his preferred brand (forgot the name). He swears by them and used to sell them commercially.
American and European designed - and maybe made - brands are Electromecanique, Schneider, Movitrak, Eurotherm, Eurodrive and Siemens are around 5 times the price.
I have 5 Siemens and a Eurodrive - all old and working well. I also have a dead Siemens though..... I do have a 30 year old analog Electromecanique that is in perfect order too. I've been using it for 25 years....
I doubt any Chinese or taiwanes ones will still be functioning in 30 years.... but neither will I :)

da9jeff
26th Feb 2017, 03:13 PM
So the mill motor now looks like this:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170226/210164418073ad7806d60c8b7476bcae.jpg

Was pretty straight forward, just need to get my multimeter from my brother so i can set up the connection box.

So I had another look at the lathe motor and I still cant find a common point, best I've got is the 3 originals and 1 2-wire connection. So a total of 5 wires...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170226/5a569e60fec38e990bd21199d0d39778.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170226/d735a11ff0ab4538925ad1ea92ca7306.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170226/697056b65c85517a91a68f26fe7a0b2e.jpg

Looking more likely that a single phase motor will be the go.

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da9jeff
26th Feb 2017, 03:17 PM
You are welcome. Yes, connect as per diagrams.
For the lathe motor, keep looking for a sleeve with three ends going in. Often two one end and one at the other...

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Reading this again, is the last picture what im looking for?

I was expecting 3in 1 out. Will confirm with multimeter but that makes sense.

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jhovel
27th Feb 2017, 02:45 AM
You found it! in the last picture. Open up the sleeve and see if the three wires are connected . There is no "wire coming out". It's just the internal connection of the 3 lots of coils.

da9jeff
27th Feb 2017, 11:36 AM
Makes sense now that I realise that the mill motor's grey wire wasnt connected to anything in the terminal box, it just brought the 3 coils together, then up to the terminal box to secure it.

Cheers

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