Who's the Stationary Engine Guys?

[DSEL74]

I managed to get my hands on a crank handle which I will copy for my engine so I have one to start it. With said borrowed crank handle I was quite relieved to be able start my engine after a little fettling and a bit of time on the crank.

So what is this mystery engine? Is is a pink, or is that light red G&N 3hp water cooled vertical engine with a wet sump. G&N stands for Gippsland and Northern which appears to have been a cooperative group back in the day. For those familiar it is more or less a rebadged Ronaldson Tipppett 3hp N Type engine. One of the differences is mine has an oval shaped cast hopper rather than the Ronnie square one.


I'm told I can probably blow the dent out of the petrol tank with a blast of compressed air. Go in through the fuel cap and block around the nozzle with a rag. What do you guys think the likely hood of success is?

I'm missing the cast iron exhaust muffler.

Also looking for literature on the engine, manuals, instructions, sales material etc. Even a PDF of the Ronaldson Tipppett 3hp N Type would be a good start.

The light red paint is basically meant to be red undercoat that has gone chalky with age. Do you think I can just give it a light rub with wet n dry and put a top coat on? I'm guessing I need motor/engine paint as the thing will get hot? Any recommendations?

Long term plan is to build a trailer display and run all the flat belt bench top drills, grinders etc I have been fixing up off the engine.....I can see stationary engines being a slippery slope. I'll have to watch my footing.

[kwijibo99]

G'day Dale,
N type Ronnies are a good first engine to tinker around with, plenty of parts and info out there for them. There are a lot of badge engineered R&T N type engines around, best first stop for DIY research would be Trove and you could put a post up on the TOMM forum and check out oldengine.org.

Blowing dents out of tanks is always a bit of a crap shoot, success depends on the type of dent and you can end up rupturing seams, blowing out rust holes or distorting the tank worse than when you started. For a squareish tank like that on a Ronnie you could try making a wooden box that's a neat fit around the tank and give it a blow starting off at low pressure but unless it is particularly bad I would just leave it, think of it as character.

Rally Badges sell repo mufflers and will probably have a manual too, if not try Plough Book sales, both have websites. Another, and probably cheaper option is to put a wanted post on the TOMM forum and of course there is always eBay. Swap meets are also a good source of parts, I reckon I saw at least half a dozen Ronnie mufflers up at Bendigo.

With painting it all depends on how good you want the final finish to be. If the paint you have is still sound then a rub back and recoat might work ok but don't expect it to look great. The best finish can only be achieved with a complete strip, either sandblast or caustic bath and start from the bottom up. No need for special paints, I've only ever used Killrust enamel and never had a problem, the only thing you will need high temp enamel for is if you want to paint the muffler. Of course automotive two pack will give you the best finish but is not particularly period original. Another option is to give it a light rub back then wipe over with oil and see how it looks in its working clothes.

Post up a few photos so we can all have a look.
Cheers,
Greg.

[.RC.]

The dairy industry machinery manufacturer Alpha Laval also badge engineered these engines. I have one sitting lost and forgotten in a falling down dairy shed. It did run when last ran, and is still free to turn over. I always thought I should sell it to someone.

[DSEL74]

I knew I'd be asked for photos lol.

The Ronnie were green. Alfa lavals also looked quite smart in black with gold. How many HP is yours?



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[DSEL74]

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[DSEL74]

Av working speed 900, Type GN, HP 3, serial 60043. For those who can't read the badge.


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[kwijibo99]

Patrick Livingstone's R&T dating page lists your engine as being manufactured in 1951.
Austral Engine Numbers (http://www.oldengine.org/members/pml/australnumbers.html)

Forget about blowing out the dent in the fuel tank, your engine is actually a kero or paraffin engine so the tank has a divider inside to make two seperate compartments, hence the two caps. These engines were designed to run on power kero which was cheaper and more redily available in those days. The smaller tank on the cranking side was for petrol and the larger tank for the power kero. The idea was that the engine would be started on petrol then switched over to kero when it got hot enough.

Power kero is not so easy to get these days and is certainly not cheaper anymore. Using petrol in your engine is not a problem in fact unless you are running the engine under a fair load it will most likely not get hot enough to burn kero properly and you will have problems with carbon build up which is never good.

The six belt pulley looks a bit overkill for a 3hp engine, must have been driving one hell of a vacuum pump.

Watch the crank on those too, they flick off quick when the engine fires and can fly up and smack you in the face if you don't keep your head back. Also make sure not to advance the spark too much either or you will end up with one arm two inches longer than the other.
Cheers,
Greg.

[DSEL74]

Greg, your knowledge is impressive and correct as usual. Yes it is a dual fuel and the caps are marked kero & petrol. The small one is a brass dip stick which is threaded but doesn't seem to want to screw into anything readily. I read on one of the links you posted I think about the super Kero being nothing like modern kero. Would you suggest putting petrol in both sides of the tank or a new one cavity tank?

Yep I've heard a few people have sported , black eyes and broken teeth.


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[kwijibo99]

I'd probably just use one or the other depending on how long you plan to run it for. No need to get a new tank unless yours has a leak you can't fix.
Don't worry if the water boils while it's running either, that's pretty much normal, just try not to let it run dry for too long.
Cheers,
Greg.

[DSEL74]

The hopper is a bit rusty inside should I try sand blasting it? Do people paint the inside?


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[.RC.]

4hp @ 1100rpm

365415 365416

[kwijibo99]

The Alfa Austral moniker is interesting, early R&T engines were sold under the Austral name, I wonder if this is a reference to that or Alfa Laval Australia.
Don't think I've seen a separator or vacuum pump badged as Alfa Austral though so maybe it is a reference to the engine.
Good to see the exhaust covered with a tin, that's usually where water gets into these old engines. Pretty much identical to Dale's just governed to higher rpm so it runs futher up the power curve. Looks like it was last used to drive the feed grinder in the background.
Cheers,
Greg.

[DSEL74]

Looks like a nice little engine in old work clothes.
You should drag it out and find it a nice home.

[DSEL74]

Well our family has gotten some really bad news so I need some busy work today to keep my mind off things. So the old girl got some attention.

A degrease and a bit of a wash.
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Not sure what this bit above the brass tag is and if it should connect to something?
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I was told the engine was probably red or maybe blue. It appears it was red as I found a few traces of red paint left.


Stripped most of the paint and crud off the brass bits.http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161202/9cbb145456469dc55d9ce7c1998e008a.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161202/c98331b8e73d2e2cd0a84f055ee531eb.jpg

Then I let my mind drift to family drama and turned this
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Into this
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I'm now going to go find a dark hole to crawl into and stay there for a while.

[kwijibo99]

G'day Dale, looking good so far.
The pipe above the plate is the sump breather, nothing attaches to it but there would originally have been a cover to keep crap out.
Don't worry about the hopper baffle, if you can get over to me I reckon it can be fixed up good as new.
Cheers,
Greg.

[DSEL74]

Hi Greg,

I'm pretty shattered about knocking it off the bench an busting it. If you think you can fix it for me I'd be indebted to you. How does the Baffle actually work, it it just to stop water boiling and splashing out of the hopper?

Would you happen to know what thread is in the brass fuel needle and fuel uptake? I'd like to run a tap through before putting them back.

[kwijibo99]

G'day Dale,
Don't be too hard on yourself, you haven't really worked on old machinery until you've broken or damaged an irreplaceable part.
The baffle's primary purpose is to prevent a sudden drop in temperature when you add cold water to the hopper to replace that lost through evaporation.
Cooling in these engines works on a thermosiphon principal. The hot water from the head expands through the upper port into the top of the hopper, this draws water into the head from the bottom of the hopper through the lower port. The water in the hopper is hotter at the top and sinks to the bottom as it cools and the cycle repeats.
If you pour a bucket of cold water into the hopper it will immediately sink to the bottom because it's more dense than the hot water. This cold water will then get drawn into the head rapidly cooling it which is not ideal, particularly for a kero engine. The pot shape of the baffle with a hole in the bottom allows the cold water to mix gradually thus reducing the drop in temperature. As you said, it also helps reduce the amount of water sloshing out the top.

Sorry I've got no idea what thread is on the needle or pickup tube, if I had to guess I'd say 3/8 Brass (BSB) but that would just be wild speculation. Unless the thread is damaged I wouldn't bother, just use a good non hardening sealant (Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket Sealant Liquid - No. 3, 59mL - Supercheap Auto (http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Permatex-Aviation-Form-A-Gasket-Sealant-Liquid-No-3-59mL/5355)) on the pickup tube and you should be right.

Give us a yell when you can drop off the busted baffle, you can bring it to me at work in Rowville if that's any easier.
Cheers,
Greg.

[.RC.]

Hi Greg,

I'm pretty shattered about knocking it off the bench an busting it.

That is a POP fix (piece of )

Either braze it or high nickel content cast iron stick rods. So simple I could do it upside down while blindfolded with both hands tied behind my back. Well, maybe not quite like that :D.

If you stick weld it, preheat it first.

[KBs PensNmore]

One thing I didn't see mentioned, was that DON'T wrap the hand and thumb around the handle, unless you'd like a broken thumb.:oo: Something I got told when I was about 17.
Kryn