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Grahame Collins
17th Jul 2005, 12:42 AM
I have noticed that questions coming from the new blokes to this Metal work forum section of the board where relative to Mig welders. In most cases our motivation as the struggling home owner DIYER it’s about saving a quid.

Mig welders have their place fellas, but really for a lower cost and versatility you can’t beat a MMAW electrode machine. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to learn to use the process. If I could learn it any one could.

For those who are new to the use of the humble stick welder, I thought I would offer a few helpful hints to those new “would be “carpenters in steel.

Designing and Selection of material

Flat bar, angle section steel, sections of round, square and rectangular tube are the most popular steel types. The thing to remember is to design with the particular welding process in mind. If you design too lightly you may end up burning through the thinner material. Try to limit your thinnest section to 3mm or better. It is also wise to consider the joint configuration. Tee joints are preferable where you can weld a fillet. If you must have a butt edge joint consider a bevel on one or two of the edges. Amateur welders have a habit of welding a bead on top of a butt joint and if its not too pretty, end up grinding it off flush with the surface. The result a micro thin depth of weld that fails eventually.

If you fellas are happy to read my offerings I shall continue with them and talk about selecting the correct type and size electrodes and adjusting the amperage next time around.

Grahame

rodm
17th Jul 2005, 12:47 AM
Good stuff Grahame keep it coming

Grahame Collins
17th Jul 2005, 02:30 AM
Selecting the correct electrode and adjusting machine amperage.

Big time amateur stuff ups emanate from a failure to use the correct electrode and or setting the amps correctly. When I was a 1 st year apprentice my boss taught me this way
Backwards SAVAGE. No he was not upset at me .It was all about this

E- Select the correct grade of ELECTRODE for the work- For us if it’s branded 4112 its ok for mild steel (for the Americans its 6013)

G- GAUGE – the old fart way of identifying electrode wire diameter – To us it’s in metric 2mm, 2.6mm 3.2mm.Most home welders use 2.6 and 3.2 mm

A- AMPERAGE setting for the diameter electrode you have chosen in the above
2 mm = 70 to 90 amps, 2.6mm = 90 to 100 amps, 3.2 mm 110 to 130 amps
Note these settings are approx only because of variables such as household input voltage- its not always 240volts and can vary down as much as 10% down, your house wiring and YOU. Yes, you can vary the input
(slightly) as you weld. - more shortly

V- VOLTAGE – The heat input into the welded material which causes the bead to flatten. Hold the arc too far off the job and the voltage increases. The trick is the hold arc closer and you will automatically increase the amps – Also affected by poor connection to the work - Keep it clean of rust and dirt and spatter.

A- ANGLE – Lateral (Side) angle and Drag angle. Side angle is variable and related to the joint position as required. Drag angle – No more than 10 to 15 degrees off 90. Too much drag angle = too little arc penetration.

S- SPEED of travel. Look at the ripple pattern of your welded bead. If normal its about the curve of your finger nail, sort of crescent shaped. Too fast and its shapes like and arrow formation. Too slow and ripples are very slightly round almost flat.

Before you weld
I will assume you know how to set your helmet from previous posts. It is best to make a test run on piece of scrap of the same type and thickness you are going to weld on. It is better to have to ditch a piece of scrap, than the job you taken hours to prepare, if you have mis set the welder adjustments.
Check your earth connection is secure and clean. On some fiddly work I make a little arc strike block to strike on and jump quickly to the start of the weld while the rod end is still red hot.

Next time I will deal with “tacking up: and assembly of the work.

Cheers Grahame
;)

scooter
17th Jul 2005, 10:24 PM
Got me in Grahame, thanks for this and keep it coming mate :)


Cheers.............Sean, avid reader of stick books (welding manuals that is ;) )

echnidna
17th Jul 2005, 10:31 PM
What sorta rod do yer weld a stick tergether with :D :D :D

rodm
18th Jul 2005, 12:03 AM
Me :p

Grahame Collins
18th Jul 2005, 01:09 AM
Tack Welding and Assembly

Irrespective of the section or type of steel that you assemble your welded project from it is essential that the collection of assembled joints are all completely tacked first to minimise any distortion.

A tack is a short length of weld anywhere in length between a dot of weld and 25 mm ( actually they can be longer , but not usually for home construction.) A good rule of thumb is small beads require short length tacks and longer beads need longer tacks..

Select your electrode and then increase the amperage by 10% of the welding amperage that you will use. The purpose behind this is to keep the tack flat and allow deeper penetration. It increases the capability of the tack to bite in and hang on when assembly requires some re direction of components with a BF hammer. Higher amps keep the tack in a flat profile and make easier to weld over the top of the it .Flip down helmets were mentioned in earlier post. The tacking procedure is where they become really essential.

Include an arc striking block quite near to the position where you need to weld. There a two purposes here. One is prepare the end of the electrode for “ arcing “ removing any cracked or spalled rod ends. Number two is to get the electrode end red hot reducing the electrical resistance when red hot, enabling a easy ignition of the arc.


Beginners often make the basic mistake of tacking and welding each joint in sequence. This invariably gives distortion a free rein with disastrous results.

Tacking is a skill which requires practice. Some rules apply
The key is to tack one corner , check it for plumb and /or square and then tack the opposite diagonal corner , thereby locking the joint in alignment.

Having assembled your project and checked it for square . Where possible start the arc at the opposite end to the tack and complete it by welding to the tack. . Avoid starting or finishing a weld on an inside corner, such as would be found on an angle section leg tacked to a frame. Start your bead on an outside leg and weld through and out of the internal corner finishing on the other leg. That way you will minimise slag holes. Set your welder amps adjustment as recommended by the manufacturer.

Make sure you keep your arc length down within a core wire diameter. For those addicted to the well known brand blue coloured electrodes be aware they do not tolerate welding over their own welding slag. In any case clean and brush your tack it reduces the likelihood of inclusions during welding to or over a tack.

Next time - troubleshooting-
G

knucklehead
18th Jul 2005, 01:07 PM
Grahame, keep it comming this is good stuff.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gif
I have made (still do) all of these mistakes.

arose62
18th Jul 2005, 03:15 PM
Ditto! Keep it coming!

I've got 3 froes, each sitting in 2 bits, waiting to be welded together.

A mate of mine is ex-USA Navy; a certified weldor who worked on all sorts of nuclear stuff in their subs. I've been waiting 3 weeks for him to drop over to do the 4 inches of weld on each froe, so now I'm psyching myself up to do it myself.

An earlier post of yours finally clarified at least one of my mistakes - the angle business. I realise that I had the electrode at more of a writing-with-a-pen angle, not nearly vertical.

I'll have to drag out my practice star pickets again.

Cheers,
Andrew

P.S. do you diagnose welds over the net, from pics posted here ?????

Grahame Collins
18th Jul 2005, 10:56 PM
Hi Andrew
Is it a trick question ? I am tempted to give a trick answer
I had to read the first line twice- I thought you had an Axe –edent in the woodpile.

After I found out what a froe was- thank god for Google – I tried to think why you would want to weld some up.
Where you careless in the art of froeing and ended up with 3 broken froes? I decided you must be like me and you had to have a go at making something for the hell of it.

Sharp woodworking thingies, froes included are likely to have a high carbon content. Subjecting that carbon content to six thousand degrees of welding heat may adversely influence that very property that helps give you have that sharp edge.

Perhaps a little bit more detail on what is being welded to what and why.
I can only assume that you are making homemade jobs and welding the handle eyes to the blades. If that’s the case I would use hydrogen controlled electrodes then re heat treat the piece.

In answer to the weld defect diagnosis by photo. I suppose it gets down to how well you can capture the detail of the bead. If I can see it I can tell if there is a problem. If you are game ,I’ll have a crack at it.

Andy Mac
18th Jul 2005, 11:21 PM
Just something to add to Graeme's excellent thread on welding...I have welded tools (during their construction), and parts of broken tools back together, using stick and MIG welders, with reasonable success. One of the main things to remember is to normalise or anneal the thing after welding, then proceed to the hardening and tempering stages. This should remove any stresses set up in the metal by the welding process.
Andy

arose62
19th Jul 2005, 02:54 PM
All the froe content on the web implies that if you want a froe, just go to the local farmer/market/garage sale, and there will be piles of them. For, like, 8 cents each!

Not in my reality!!

So, yes, I'm making them myself. And 3 because I've seen a couple of my brothers-in-law splitting kindling. They either use a hatchet to just miss their fingers (so far), or stick the hatchet in the wood, then use hatchet-and-wood as a huge hammer-type contraption. I reckon even a home-made froe has got to be safer!!

I'm just using mild steel for the experiment, as I understand the froe is primarily a wedging tool, not really a cutting tool, so at the moment I'm not planning the heat-treatment exercise.

Cheers,
Andrew

Grahame Collins
19th Jul 2005, 07:39 PM
Hi Andrew,
Mild steel foe, no worries. just use a mild steel rod . Australian made ones will have a 4112or 4113 number stenciled on the flux cover near the end of the rod where you attach it to the holder.

Mild steel have only about .03% of carbon content which is 3/5 of 5/8 of bugger all. Get into it you can't do any damage. If you have done a bit of prep on the foe edges to be welded just get some offcut of the same size and section material and have a practice.
My guess is that you probabbly welding on something around 10mm thick. If thats the case a 3.25mm diam rod should do. Crank it up to about 120-130 amps. If the beads flatten out to much back off the ammps a little. Keep your arc length short. A sign of your close to perfect bead will be that flux pops off by itself or with a tap of the chipping hammer.
See how you go.
Cheers Grahame

Grahame Collins
22nd Jul 2005, 08:27 AM
Identifying a less than efective welding technique

It might be as well to start at the beginning .
Having trouble in striking your arc. A couple of possible causes are

1.The electrode end broken cracked or chipped. If the electrode end is not covered in flux it won’t strike well.
2. The earth return clamp is not connected securely to the work. It is best attached directly to the work piece. If not all the little balls of spatter on the bench raise the job slightly off the bench surface and decrease the surface electrical contact and therefore lessen the ability of the arc to initiate. Use an arc strike block to strike the electrode and jump straight over to the work , while the electrode end is still red hot. This burns any possible cracked and spalled end off the stick and reduces the starting resistance.

A strike block is simply a block of steel ay 50 x 50 x 10 square. I mount mine on a 10 rod tacked ( tacked-not welded ) to the bench top.Come time when its all built up and unusable – smack it with a BFH and replace it.

The clamp connections themselves tend to get cruddy over time and poor electrical connection between the earth cable and earth clamp will cause trouble. Its little things like that that we miss.

Once you have a decent arc you can then concentrate on the welding technique proper. The distance from the end of the electrode and the work through the arc is called the arc length. Beginners often forget to compensate adequately for the continual loss of electrode length and the arc becomes longer. This in turn increases the voltage which in turn heats up the weld puddle area –big-time. Disaster on thin walled work.
The arc length is also affected by the way the electrode holder is held and manipulated .The wrist should be locked and this keeps the electrode angle fixed. People tend to pivot the electrode ( via the wrist ) during the running of the bead. The angle of drag changes from one end of the work to the other and with it the electrode length.
Arc length is important, as well as the above it also is critical in controlling penetration and avoiding slag holes. Held close ,to say the core wire diameter of the welding electrode is gives good penetration. Too long and it increases the voltage and reduces the available amperage .This allows molten slag to interspace itself into a gap between the arc and the work. Simply put, it requires high electrical energy ( amperage ) to keep the slag out of where it should not be.

This is starting to turn into war and peace. I’ll be back and continue this in another session. Please ask me to explain anything you having trouble with.

Cheers
Grahame

Optimark
22nd Jul 2005, 08:31 PM
Grahame, excellent information.

One day I was butt welding two pieces of steel and a watching friend, who is a welder by profession, gave me a tip.

He explained, that I was starting at one end just like most non professional welders.

Basically, he said that I was starting right at the end, but in fact should be starting before the end, so to speak. By doing this, as he showed me, I got a very strong weld right from go, not one that required some building up for the first 10mm.

Maybe you could explain in better terms for others, what I'm trying to say?

Mick.

knucklehead
22nd Jul 2005, 08:58 PM
The best advice I ever got was from a guy that had not ever seen me weld. As I was setting up he came over an said " SLOW DOWN and KEEP IT VERTICAL !!!! "
I say "but you have never seen me weld".
He says "don't care, you go to fast and don't keep the rod upright. Every amateur does"

He was absolutely right, that one tip made a big difference to the quality of my welds.

Groggy
22nd Jul 2005, 09:03 PM
Grahame, this is good stuff, greenie on the way!

I am a self professed welding numpty, and my welding sounds like bzzz, BRRRRRRRRR, twist - zap!

In other words, I tend to have the rod stuck to the workpiece a lot. Dunno why that is, but it attracts like it's magnetised or something. Next time I go out I'll try some of your tips.

Your description of excess voltage rings a bell. I seem to recall burning some holes through some 2.5mm box section I was welding last year, nasty business, lots of grinding and eventually hand filed it, bogged it and painted it - it wasn't a proud moment...

Tell me, are the instant darkening face shields worthwhile? I have a chepo standard face shield that likes to fall off while I work.

Grahame Collins
22nd Jul 2005, 10:49 PM
Easy one Mick

What you mate means is the electrode when struck it takes an amount of time to generate the heat input to bring the parent metals and electrode to molten temperature – up to 6000 degrees Celsius. A comparison I make with students is to that of starting up a car on a freezing winter’s morning. While the motor does run it’s not until a minute or more when the motor arrives at required operating temperature.

If starting from an edge strike the arc and mark time dribbling over the lip or on the spot for say 1-2-3 –as long as it takes to say it . The electrode arc, held on the spot brings the job the job up to welding temp. On thinner section common sense will have you vary the time span.

If welding on a bead where you need to join up the start of a new bead to where the electrode ran out on the old one do the following. The bead will finish in a crater – a flat football shaped depression tapering back to the flat parent metal level -
Remember the striking block? Here’s an application for it. Strike your arc on it and while the electrode end is still red hot, quickly move it to a spot 8-10 mm downstream of your finish crater. Strike the arc here and lift up (3 X the electrode core wire diameter) and let it drop back to normal arc length. At the same time it is moved up to match the last ripples in the weld bead leading up to the crater. Time span say a second or two.

A practice or two and the casual observer won’t be able to tell where bead 1 ended and bead 2 began.
No worries
Grahame

Grahame Collins
22nd Jul 2005, 11:00 PM
Tell me, are the instant darkening face shields worthwhile? I have a chepo standard face shield that likes to fall off while I work.[/QUOTE]

It is all relative to how much welding you do. Theres not much value if you are welding once a year. I had one for x ray stuff when an arc strike outside the weld bead was not tolerated. really you get what you pay for and a cheapy will fail well before you expect it to-just out of warranty ,if your luck is similair to mine.

Personally I think a good CIGWELD Hiderok (plastic helmet ) is the go. I have described how to tune them so a flick of the head drops them into position where the view slot is square to your eyes.
A cotton based skull cap under it stops your lid skid.

Hope this helps
Grahame

Grahame Collins
24th Jul 2005, 12:43 AM
Trouble shooting your welding

You have just completed a welded project and my god, the welding; it looks like a seagull has the trots.
There are more slag holes than there is, welded bead. Chances are you have held too long an arc length and set the amperage too low. This combination would result an extra low amps and a distinct lack of penetration into the parent metal. As for a cure, there’s not a lot you can do but pick the slag out of the holes with a scriber or something sharp and pointy - grind the sorry mess out and increase the amperage and hold a MUCH closer arc. If you have used those blue crappy Craft rods you now know that they don’t like to weld over their own flux. Next time remember to save some job off cuts and do practice runs to get your amp settings right.

Basic welding electrical theory says that voltage up results in amperage down and vice versa.

On the other hand if the job is covered in excess spatter and you have tram tracks along the bead boundaries you have excess amperage and/or excess travel speed. If the job is going to flex at all, guess where the cracks will start from.

There’s stacks of really good info at aussieweld.com.au/arcwelding

I have attempted to cover what is not in the text books.

I hope the preceding comments will assist you in improving you welding. Many of your responses have helped me in becoming a better wood worker. I’ll try to answer your welding questions as they come up.

Thanks
Grahame

rodm
24th Jul 2005, 01:10 AM
Graheme
Great contribution to the board.

knucklehead
24th Jul 2005, 09:15 AM
Once again Grahame, real good stuff.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gif

The Aussie weld link is a good one http://www.aussieweld.com.au/arcwelding/. As you said lots of info.

JDarvall
24th Jul 2005, 09:17 AM
Once again Grahame, real good stuff.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gif

The Aussie weld link is a good one http://www.aussieweld.com.au/arcwelding/. As you said lots of info.

agreed. Thanks for the effort :)

Bodgy
2nd Aug 2005, 10:52 AM
Thank you Graham. Really informative, I think we owe you a beer or seven.

Question: I've been told that if the rods become damp they make welding even harder (for the unskilled that is). When it used to rain in Sydney mine would get damp in the shed, so I stuck them in the oven for 20 mins.

True or False

Bodgy

Simomatra
2nd Aug 2005, 11:54 AM
Thanks Graham images/icons/icon7.gifimages/icons/icon7.gif

Lots of info for everyone took me back a few years. Just like a refresher course.

Keep up the good posts. Greenie on the way
Sam

Grahame Collins
2nd Aug 2005, 08:07 PM
Hi Bodgy
In answer to your question.
Damp electrode rods are not are problem of any great severity unless you happen to be X ray welding.
What happens is that H2O is reduced back to its constituents by a 6000 degree blast of welding arc temperature. Bingo! hydrogen and oxygen.Hydrogen is the nasty in highly stressed members potentially causing failures. For the ordinary backyard welder.No problem .Heat the electrodes up to 100 degrees C.
Hydrogen controlled electrodes should be kept in the oven after opening if you are using them for fair dinkum high structural strength purposes.

Grahame

Greyham
16th Aug 2005, 09:37 PM
Hi there

Have just found this thread and have really learnt a few things, I have bookmarked it for future use. Very informative and very easy to understand.

I have a Welder, it is a Transarc Tradesman. Just a question you might be able to help me with.

It has a high and low amperage, if I need to use the high amperage I have to transfer the cable from the low to high port. But to change the amperage, for both high and low it has a handle on the top which you turn for more or less amperage, At this point in time I have not needed to change. Possibly because I find that the low amperage is enough for what I need.

The question is, and probably a stupid one, but what would the high one be used for if it seems to do most jobs on the low amperage. I imagine it would be for heavy jobs. (probably answered my own question.)

Cheers
Graham

Grahame Collins
17th Aug 2005, 06:52 PM
Greyham
From One Greyham to another.
Actually its a good question not silly at all.

The tradesman is an light industrial level welder. As such one may be required to weld with stainless steel or Hydrogen controlled electrodes.

These elecrodes require a higher starting voltage- remember ! ? higher amps lower volts and viccy versa.
Usually poor unfortunates with a single output terminal will beat the S/S or L/H electrode tip to death trying to strike it.
This action will result in the end of electrode flux, cracking, spalling and breaking away .In turn , it makes the electrode in question even harder to strike, stick to the job, infuriate the operator and so it goes.

Some Low Hydrogen electrodes have a little bit over iron oxide placed at the tip of the electrode to enable easier striking.In addittion if the electrode is damp or wet, triple the hassle factor.
hang on to your tradesman as it can be wired for three phase if ever needed.

Grahame Collins
cheers
replying in between intermittent computer malfunctions

Schtoo
19th Aug 2005, 03:43 AM
Bodgy, with damp electrodes (here it means any electrode!) I usually work on a steel stand. The top is sacrificial and is earthed. Just drag the electrode across the top for a second. Uses up a little electrode, but also gets it hot, which dries out the electrode and makes it ready to use.

If I don't do it, it's a nightmare to start a bead. If I do, zero problems.

Then again, I am stupid enough to actually weld cast iron with a standard electrode, and I know little enough to get away with it. Just once, but it works fine. :D

ian9toes
3rd Aug 2007, 07:51 PM
G'day, to anyone in the know. I was wanting to weld some stressing cable (used in construction, to pre-stress a concrete slab) to make a slide hammer for nailing in difficult to get places. Once the inner straight strand is removed from the centre, I need to weld around the outside to keep it together. The strands are about 5mm in diameter and this stuff is very hard. Any advice on electrode and amperage selection? Thanks.

Ian.

Grahame Collins
3rd Aug 2007, 08:13 PM
Ian,
Not being one who is familiar with the metallurgical make up of stressing cable I can't advise with 100% certainty.

My suspicion is that it is probably similar in make up to reo bar used for concreting reinforcement bars.

Reo bar is correctly welded with the Low Hydrogen electrode or steel Mig wire LW1 which is the same material as LH electrodes. DC electrode positive for LH is even better if you have a DC stick machine.

If you only have a stick machine I hope it has the second tapping, cause you may go nanas over trying to strike the arc for the LH electrode on the standard AC machine single tapping.

Does this help?

Grahame

barkersegg
4th Aug 2007, 04:47 AM
What a very informative thread....certainly one that is worth cutting and pasting to your "cheat sheets" for continual reference. I will have it close to the welder now in plastic cover (not too close though :D) as have been guilty of a lot of the aspects covered so eloquently in this thread by Grahame and others - grateful to see the knowledge freely given to assist others and that takes a special person who is passionate about his work .....well done Grahame and lots of greenies and cold frothies coming your way.:2tsup:.....thankyou again.....Lee

Grahame Collins
4th Aug 2007, 09:20 AM
Ta, thanks for the thanks
I have just had another rush of crap to the brain and
thought above earth connections on welders.I may have mentioned them before but it is worth another go. As a guess I would say more than half of the welders (machines) that I see have a problem in the earth return side.

For those welders ,a tune up is in order. With the machine switched off and disconnected, check and clean and tighten every mechanical connection.


Where the cable connection/s screw to the welder outputs , they move and loosen and the resistance around the contact area increases and the heat up and corrode. A few minutes of work with the wire brush and a file on the flat of the connector tab yield results.
At the other end of the cable you have your G clamp or spring loaded A clamp.
Because we are sometimes bad welders and arc on the clamp sometimes, when the job we are trying to arc on -won't strike the electrode.

We end up heating up the clamp and spring and weaken the clamp spring. we are creating a less than positive grip and again resistance etc etc..The mechanical connection of the cable to clamp needs inspection also.it must be tight and loosens up with movement of the cables.

New A clamps are available and could be installed on your weld table along with a replaceable striker pad. I use a 75 x 75 x 6 plate tacked to a 12mm rod. Tacked ,note I said tacked. It makes it easy to replace.Strike an arc to start and then while the end of the stick is still red hot quickly jump across to the item to be welded and many of your striking woes will go away.

The other bit of advice I would offer is to clean up the weld table surface regularly. The tiny spatter balls make for poor surface contact between table and job and therefore poor electrical connection.little point in having a great earthing system from machine to clamp ,if your table surface is poor.For those with problems ,I know it will make a difference.

Catcha all later
Grahame

nswnotill
4th Aug 2007, 12:41 PM
I am an amateur welder (ex farmer) and used to have one of those 160amp 240V stick welders. Weighed about 20 kg and was a real pest to lug about.
I heard from colleagues about inverter welders, and their superior welding quality, and then read an exhaustive test of the smaller units carried by Kondinin Group about 6 months ago. ( this is a farming group in WA who road tests all sort of farming gear).
Kondinin had all the details I wanted and I ended up purchasing one of the recommended types for just over $300. It does a better job than normal stick welders, and only weighs about 3kg, so real easy to transport about. This one does the job for me.:woot:
What do the gurus on this thread think?

tomhowell
4th Aug 2007, 01:43 PM
Yeah I have just been through the same transition, old transformer to new inverter.

I think they are great, better more stable arc.
Easier to strike the arc & more amps than my old peerless transformer welder.

Our new unit is a Jasic Stick/tig machine. weighs about 4 or 5 kgs & is easy as hell to move around.

I have a got a quick question for grahame though.
How do these small electronic machines cope with workshop conditions?
Lots of dust grinding sparks & general airborne smog around the machine both while operating & while stored.
Does this stuff get into the circuit boards or do they cover them up well enough to protect them?

I have a couple of kids working in our shop & they can't be persuaded to look after much of our gear. Stuffed if I know why my Father (business owner) stands for it, but that's how it goes.

Grahame Collins
4th Aug 2007, 05:08 PM
I have a got a quick question for grahame though.
How do these small electronic machines cope with workshop conditions?
.

Hi Tom, Yep I love my inverter as well,and would never go back.
From my experience with these machines,I have to say it depends on the machine and the quality of the circuit boards.
Some machines have the boards dipped in a phenolic resin compound.I have personally witnessed the boards on an early Eutectic inverter, removed from the machine,washed with detergent and rinsed off with the hose.The Eutectic was a re badged Fronios.This was in the coal fields and the reason for the tub up was to wash the coal dust from the gizards of the machine. It went back together and as far as I know worked perfectly.

I completely understand your feelings about some of the juniors and their lack of empathy towards the machinery.You and I were trained to respect others property and that extended to the machines.
Certainly I would disuade the lads from pointing the angle grinder stream towards the machine.

If the boards in your machine are not so treated, sooner or later the blue smoke is going to be let out. I had a Thermal Dynamics AC/DC Tig do this as I demo'd a weld for a student at Tafe.
The constant use of the angle grinder and the air borne metallic crap it makes, will certainly accelerate the failure of these machines.

I am not saying don't use a grinder ,but say instead try and reduce the use of same and when it is used be aware of where the grinding stream is pointed. Perhaps a dust cover for it when not in use perhaps ?

Secondly the maintainence checks on these machines may stop problems long before they begin.Getting the dust cleaned out by a specialist ( welder maintenance eleccy fella) will likely pick up steel dust build up.

nswnotill

I am certainly not a guru. Certainly not about lathes and machining as most here will attest.I cringe at the term.I go back to what I say about most equipment.Good name ,spare parts and back up. However if the assessment by the farmers has come up positive,it may well be an exceptional value for the $.
Apart from the light weight,one of the best advantages is the input minimal loss of the machine.Good luck with it.

As a final word ,can I say that the good ones are good.My wifes boss is the local Fronios agent.I asked him the other day what was the return rate.He said he has sold 350 or so of the lunch box size and has not had one back in 5 years.
Yes the little cheap one DC stick -$1400
Grahame

tomhowell
4th Aug 2007, 06:39 PM
Thanks for the advice re the metallic dust & the ingestion of same by inverter circuit boards.
I'll hava a chat to the guy I bought the unit from & we might look at getting it cleaned out in a while, haven't had it very long.

Another question for the guru (ha ha ha ).
Grahame, I was reading up on Tig welding etc on the miller website that you so kindly steered me towards & I found reference to a Tig arc "dancing from plate to plate" on a fillet weld.

Can't say I have seen my unit do this on Tig mode yet, but it does appear to do that a bit now & again whilst I'm stick welding.

I've noticed (thinking back, having read you series of post on stick welding), that I may be holding too long an arc length.
Do you reckon that might cause the arc to dance back & forth between the two plates?
This phenomena is a bitch for causing slag holes in a weld (ok yeah I know it's ultimately me that causes the slag holes). It appears that if the arc feels like being on one plate at a give point during a run, you need to move the electrode to the other plate quick smart or you get a slag hole.

What do you reckon I could do to help this ? Is there something I'm not noticing ?

Thanks

Grahame Collins
4th Aug 2007, 07:09 PM
Tom,
Without going to the Miller site to verify it, my experience with DC power sources suggests to me that the problem may be arc blow. You will know it when it happens as the arc is repelled from where you want it to go. Repelled as in when you put two opposing magnets together.
Its a magnetic problem, the metal in the arc pool arc being deviated by magnetic force.

I can't recall problems with it in the Tig process, outside of the (ferrous) metal itself being magnetic before welding begins.
The fix is either dice the metal or wrap the earth lead around and around . There is the right direction which makes it better and the wrong direction which makes it worse.

When I worked at the refinery magnetic arc blow was a PITA as kms of pipework sit on racks and vibrates and bumps and attains magnetism.

To stick weld them was a major deal at times, requiring the earth lead counter rotated around and around the pipe to reduce the magnetic field.

Sometimes it was cured by re positioning the earth clamp.

Your arc length for Tig should not be in excess of say 3 times your Tig electrode diameter.

Grahame

Priemsy
8th Aug 2007, 10:48 AM
Great thread Grahame, thanks heaps. Now my problem as a farm welder. Overhead and vertical welds I just can't seem to do them right. Could you advise on the best way to do them.

Paul

Metal Head
8th Aug 2007, 11:04 AM
Your arc length for Tig should not be in excess of say 3 times your Tig electrode diameter.

Grahame

Thanks for that advice Grahame, I will go and get myself some 15 mm diameter electrodes to cure my problem(s) on welding the 1 mm steel I mainly do:wink: :D.

ian9toes
8th Aug 2007, 10:40 PM
G'day Graham, thanks for the help. Could you please expain what you meant when you said second tapping. I have a cigweld compact turbo, does this have single or second tapping. I'm using 2.5 mm satincraft 13 electrodes. Are these suitible for the stressing cable? (which I think is just hardened steel). Thanks.

Ian

Grahame Collins
8th Aug 2007, 11:46 PM
Overhead and vertical welds I just can't seem to do them right. Could you advise on the best way to do them.
Overhead and Vertical welds, being out of position (not the flat position) mean that the fluid molten arc is affected by gravity.

A basic rule that one could apply is to use a smaller controllable arc >therefore a smaller electrode is required.
One of the two 6012 or 6013 At the moment I have flu, can,t remember which is best used for out of position.

Overhead and Vertical are very different techniques.When I feel better i can write up a tutorial on them.

Grahame

Grahame Collins
8th Aug 2007, 11:55 PM
I'm using 2.5 mm satincraft 13 electrodes. Are these suitible for the stressing cable? (which I think is just hardened steel)

I,d be inclined to use a Low Hydrogen electrode. If there is any stress on this part satincraft won't hold it.

Re the tapping It is a second outlet on the machine.you can pick them as they are marked high and low voltage.
Stainless and low hydrogen need high voltage to kick them off.Without that type of machine it can be a big pain in the bum.

Grahame

Grahame Collins
9th Aug 2007, 01:03 AM
Below is a pic of a machine that has a dual tapping.
The normal attachment point for the electrode lead terminal(low voltage ) is bottom right.

The high voltage tapping is the one with the white arrow and would be the one set up when welding with LH electrodes.


Grahame

Priemsy
9th Aug 2007, 09:26 AM
Thanks mate, when you can. Get better soon.

Paul

Chris Parks
12th Aug 2007, 01:41 AM
The biggest problem home welders have is they are 240 volt machines. The professionals use a 415 volt machine and they are far easier to use in every respect. What happens with a 240V machine is the arc actually has a null period where it turns off, now this is very short and not noticeable but it makes intially striking the arc and keeping it going harder than for a 415V machine where the arc is continuous due to it being 3 phase. If you want a welder and have 3 phase look for a 2nd hand one, you will never regret how much easier it makes welding.

Unit_01
15th Sep 2007, 12:29 PM
G'day Grahame, i was wanting to weld up some 20x20x1.6mm RHS using fillet welds. Can this be possible with a arc welder?

Grahame Collins
15th Sep 2007, 02:15 PM
The short answer is yes.

Variables are:


your experience
matching the suitable electrode type and electrode diameter to the job.
the quality of the machine you choose to weld with
the amount of practice performed before the job proper


My recommendation is, don't get suckered in to the blue fluxed satincrafttype as they are not suitable and expensive to boot. They don't weld over their own slag sucessfully and are very prone to slag holes if amps are not set high enough/ or if arc length is too long.

I would recommend some cheap chinese 2mm electrodes from one of the hardware guys on ebay.2 kgs of them loose for about $14 plus postage was good value and will do 95 percent of home stick jobs
Grahame

Grahame Collins
15th Sep 2007, 03:19 PM
The fillet weld in itself is a straight forward weld.
What often causes a problem is the fill in the hollow created btween the radiused edge and the cut edge.

While it is not a fillet weld, a technique for filling it is handy.
If approached with the electrode positioned in the semi vertical, the will surely burn away the thin 1.6mm cut edge.


cheers
Grahame

Unit_01
16th Sep 2007, 02:21 PM
Thanks for the reply mate. I am wanting to purchase the GMC branded arc welder which is sold at bunnings for 100 $. So i should get some 2.0mm rods and will this machine do for this project? and what settings should i have it on like the amps/voltage.

Grahame Collins
16th Sep 2007, 03:07 PM
Unit,
For the GMC machine.If its the one that you can vary the amps say 85 amps. This is a nominal figure, not set in concrete.

It could vary, dependent on your relationship to where your power supply is.
If you live right at the end of the the feeder,you get last chop at the power and might not be drawing 240 volts at the GPO.

Therefore less power in means less out. It changes throughout the day according to load on the grid..

Get more 20 x 20 x 1.6 box material than you need and have a good practice.

When I get my upload problem sorted, I will post some diagrams on electrode positioning relative to welding thin box section (RHS).
PS megacheap hardware was the mob on ebay that i bought the rods from.

Grahame

Unit_01
17th Sep 2007, 11:10 AM
ok sweet deal. ill get me hands on some more 20x20x1.6 RHS and practice on it wit the amps on 85 and see how she handles it. Cheers for postin the electrode positining stuff, thatll be great once ur uploadin prob is fixed. Yeah ill have a look at the megacheap mob and see what rods they got.

PS. this is the machine i am wanting to get:
http://www.gmcompany.com.au/index.cfm?module=products&pid=211
cheers