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BrianLara400*
8th Nov 2012, 08:11 PM
Hi everyone, here are some progress pictures of my current project.
It started when I saw a thread on the shooting.com.au forums: Sako 85 AICS - Shooting.com.au (http://www.shooting.com.au/forum/index.php?/topic/17030-sako-85-aics/)
I happened to have a spare barrelled action (well used) in the safe, that I had wanted to get it into a stock so it atleast had some utility, and GregT's work was just the inspiration I needed.

http://imageshack.us/a/img818/7888/m590chassiswithskins.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img26/8314/m590chassisclose.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img337/6559/m590chassisfull.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img824/1623/m590beddingblock.jpg

Once I have evaluated the barrel in it and settled on a calibre I will then look @ mag options and will complete the rest of the machining on the bedding block at that point.

And Yes, in-case anyone is wondering the tailstock was initially installed upside down ....good times, had to re-check my set-up again.
http://imageshack.us/a/img40/7305/m590beddingblocksetupin.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img89/468/wolhaupterboringm590bed.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img819/8581/wolhaupterfacingm590bed.jpg

BrianLara400*
8th Nov 2012, 08:25 PM
http://imageshack.us/a/img207/4779/dovetailinscoperail.jpg
The 17mm (nominal) Sako dovetail, in what will become the scope rail for the project.
http://imageshack.us/a/img651/5793/scoperailandringsdetail.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img687/3900/partiallycompletescoper.jpg
Got most of the scope mount done now; The rib in the pictures will be cross drilled to accept the big ass rings (AD Recon) that came with the 2nd hand scope I purchased for this project. Once I've worked a few positional/ergonomics things out I can proceed further - however I'm awaiting a butpad from sporting services in the UK and until I've got this installed I'm hesitant to finalise anything incase it doesnt suit later i.e eye relief relative to natural cheekweld etc.
In the mean time I'll work toward a method of locking the dovetail, possibly like an optilock?
Would like to be able to remove scope, rings and mount as one piece (for the odd occaision it might end up on my other M590 fullbore rifle) this would effectively rule out using the tapped holes in the top of the reciever, any idea's?
http://imageshack.us/a/img7/1593/memo0005i.jpg

This is how the scope mount is shaping up @ present
http://imageshack.us/a/img254/978/scopemountside.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img850/9655/scopemount.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img217/9629/scopemountreverseside.jpg
Tonight I've turned up the locking handles, cross drilled the base and milled the recesses that the SS claws fit into,
so thus it is useable in this condition. At some point I'll rework a few aesthetic things, de-burr and integrate a spirit level bubble into it somewhere on the mount, but for now i'll be happy enough to start looking at the barrell work aspect of this project

http://imageshack.us/a/img846/4861/machiningrecoillug.jpg
Machined up a recoil lug for this project this evening, out of some 4140.
Lapped the critical surfaces on a diamond plate, all thats left to do now is make an ammendment shoulder of the barrel so the headspace isnt out by like 315 thou' :D .
Will also mildly chamfer the face that mates with the barrel.
So getting close to the point where I can put some shots through it and assess the condition of the used barrel.
I'm thinking of going with the AI single stack magnum (.300win, 30-06 etc) length mags as there is a 10 shot available in these.

xXvapourXx
8th Nov 2012, 08:29 PM
Wow thats amazing, i love it :2tsup:
Keen to see some more updates man, keep it up!!

Cooper

BrianLara400*
8th Nov 2012, 08:54 PM
I appologise for the text appearing abit incoherent, It has been posted else where as a running commentary and thus its out of context when posted all at once.

http://imageshack.us/a/img266/1938/tikkabeddingplan.jpg
Below are some pics for those unfamiliar with the M590 action:
From what I can gather they were a forebear to the current production Tikka T3, and visually from the topside the two look very similar, However I've the feeling that the 590 has a smaller loading/ejection port. As for the underside I can't comment as I've not seen the bedding arrangment of a T3, but know they run an insertable recoil lug.

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9973/p1000963x.jpg
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/733/p1000964v.jpg
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3238/p1000965copy.jpg
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/3977/p1000966.jpg

Anorak Bob
8th Nov 2012, 10:17 PM
Wow thats amazing, i love it :2tsup:
Keen to see some more updates man, keep it up!!

Cooper


I'm with Cooper Glen. Just superb!

BT

ps. What is the cable doing connected to the arbor in the spindle?

Stustoys
8th Nov 2012, 10:28 PM
I'm with Cooper Glen. Just superb!
+1



ps. What is the cable doing connected to the arbor in the spindle?

I was wondering that myself, edge finder, coordinate measuring machine*?

Stuart

*

BrianLara400*
8th Nov 2012, 10:36 PM
I'm with Cooper Glen. Just superb!

BT

ps. What is the cable doing connected to the arbor in the spindle?

Thats an early touch probe/ sensor, rather than have the piezo buzzer integral in the probe like they do these days - it used the DRO unit to sound out.

And the good news is: I've not managed to fire the machine up with the probe still connected, yet :U




before I shoot some group's, I'll make an ammendment to the bipod spigot to allow me to lock the swivel/canting, and a few other things.

once I see how tightly it prints I'll then make some decisions regarding the replacement of the barrel and possibly calibre conversion.

Ueee
8th Nov 2012, 10:39 PM
Make that a big :2tsup: from me too.

Love your mill too, i have just looked through your posting history but couldn't find any info on it....any chance of some more pics? I can see that its a euro but cannot work out the make?

Anorak Bob
8th Nov 2012, 11:04 PM
Make that a big :2tsup: from me too.

Love your mill too, i have just looked through your posting history but couldn't find any info on it....any chance of some more pics? I can see that its a euro but cannot work out the make?

Ewan,

Glen's a farm boy. He might have headed off to bed. Have a look and read and maybe a laugh here in case he has called it a night.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/hardinge-5c-collet-brochure-140753/#post1385158

BT

BrianLara400*
8th Nov 2012, 11:09 PM
Riken RMT-2, Japanese clone of the Mk2 Deckel FP1 (1966 Manufacture) - got a good amount of the original matching acc/
(theres not alot of info around to be had on these, which is a bit sad - but mechanically the deckel manual I've got seem 95% interchangeable)

I'm surprising you couldnt find mention of it in my posting history: I defiled a thread of bob's about hardinge collets, and quasi turned it into a discussion about the riken and other unobtanium deckel acc/ that gregQ and I wanted.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/hardinge-5c-collet-brochure-140753/

Will post further picks of it over the next few days

Gerbilsquasher
8th Nov 2012, 11:13 PM
Good stuff... I am also a shooter and would like to see a separate category on gunsmithing on this forum... because it is more interesting than golf.

I picked up a Dolomite (forerunner of Zeiss?) scope with the German post reticle... trouble is it only has an elevation turret, and I assume that windage was controlled by the scope mounts... I drew up a mount in Inventor, making it is requires another 'roundtoit'... with a custom mount for a K98 perhaps?

BrianLara400*
9th Nov 2012, 08:12 AM
I have heard of dolomite, will check my books for you.
Quite a few of the early Hensoldt's had no lateral adjustment integral to the tube & zero was achieved through the fit of the mount to the action.
I think then for windage adjustment the shooter held off a judged amount into the wind?
I've seen some American side mount designs of the same era, where they had a simple amount of correction in addition to this

what power is the Dolomite, I'd be interested to see what you've come up with.

I'm about to learn all about external adjustment etc, the next project on the drawing board is a Model 70 CRF w/ 8x Unertl & micrometer mounts.

Anorak Bob
9th Nov 2012, 10:26 AM
I have heard of dolomite, will check my books for you.
Quite a few of the early Hensoldt's had no lateral adjustment integral to the tube & zero was achieved through the fit of the mount to the action.
I think then for windage adjustment the shooter held off a judged amount into the wind?
I've seen some American side mount designs of the same era, where they had a simple amount of correction in addition to this

what power is the Dolomite, I'd be interested to see what you've come up with.

I'm about to learn all about external adjustment etc, the next project on the drawing board is a Model 70 CRF w/ 8x Unertl & micrometer mounts.

So Glen,

Did you end up finding a pre '64 Model 70?

Bob.

BrianLara400*
9th Nov 2012, 12:50 PM
Unfortunately not, but the more I research the current manufacture FN Herstal Win model 70's - the more I see that after along time in the wilderness, they are basically back to that controlled round feeding P'64 format and in many facet's are improved. The build quality was there all along.

So I'll likely pick one of these up in a long action and build on that.
It'll still look very authentic to what I want to reproduce, but beneath the clothing I'm looking to refine it into something capable of shooting a group into a ragged hole (when I do my bit). Might look to install a hidden AL bedding block etc. I've just found the correct win "target/marksman" stock up for the project.

jack620
9th Nov 2012, 02:43 PM
Nice work. Is that an offset boring head being used as a fly cutter (last photo in the first post)?

BrianLara400*
9th Nov 2012, 09:07 PM
Yeah, thats my Wohlhaupter UPA3 universal boring and facing head (automatic).
Since I bought it's proven indispensible - extremely versatile (a bit bulky at times for the size of the machine - but still brilliant).

It was sweeping maybe 4 inches or so in Dia, probably had no more than a couple of hundred RPM on at the time, with a keen tool and a moderate feed - it was producing a terrificly fine finish, the trick is to keep it that way when all is done (Ally marks soo bloody easily when handling)

http://imageshack.us/a/img543/5233/wohlhaupterupa3boringhe.jpg
It was missing a few bits out of the set when I purchased it out of ebay.de, but luckily there happened to be an item lot of Kuroda spares (enough to complete the set & more) that came up on italian ebay at the same time - I made the bloke an offer to end early.

Gerbilsquasher
10th Nov 2012, 08:52 AM
I have heard of dolomite, will check my books for you.
Quite a few of the early Hensoldt's had no lateral adjustment integral to the tube & zero was achieved through the fit of the mount to the action.
I think then for windage adjustment the shooter held off a judged amount into the wind?
I've seen some American side mount designs of the same era, where they had a simple amount of correction in addition to this

what power is the Dolomite, I'd be interested to see what you've come up with.

I'm about to learn all about external adjustment etc, the next project on the drawing board is a Model 70 CRF w/ 8x Unertl & micrometer mounts.

Here is a pic of the Dolomit 6 x 42/49. Please note I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE for butchering the mounting rails.... this low brow accomplishment was 'achieved' by its previous owner.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/members/58985-gerbilsquasher/albums/scope/240161-cimg0183.JPG

The mounting I came up with had a plate with the usual dovetail bits on the bottom (Weaver) and a separate plate which had a pivot at the front end and lug which fitted into a radial slot on the lower plate. The top plate was to be swiveled by rotating a cap screw at the back of the contraption to move the top plate left and right, and then locked in position by tightening the cap screw in the front pivot and two more cap screws at the rear. The top plate would have dovetails to suit the Dolomit front and centre mountings.

Unfortunately the computer that this file was on suffered a power surge, otherwise I could have easily supplied a jpeg for a more 'visual' explanation. I might have a back up on a memory stick...... somewhere.... :( ... but I could always draw it up again, if the missus and kids could leave me alone for an hour :((

Are micrometer mountings available commercially? I did toy with a detent mechanism on the 'windage' screw... at the time I realised that a great deal of research (probably at the range) would be necessary to help calculate the division of the machined grooves if it were to have any similarity to the adjustment of the elevation turret... no doubt more research is required, and probably a lot of fine tuning once I get around to building the thing.

jack620
10th Nov 2012, 09:00 AM
Thanks Glen,
Tubal Cain shows a boring head for fly cutting in his book "milling operations on the lathe" After your endorsement I'm going to buy one. It won't be as flash as yours though!
Chris

BrianLara400*
11th Nov 2012, 08:38 AM
Wow, I see Gunsmithing got it's own forum - lets not muff this up with politics!


Here is a pic of the Dolomit 6 x 42/49. Please note I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE for butchering the mounting rails.... this low brow accomplishment was 'achieved' by its previous owner.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/members/58985-gerbilsquasher/albums/scope/240161-cimg0183.JPG

The mounting I came up with had a plate with the usual dovetail bits on the bottom (Weaver) and a separate plate which had a pivot at the front end and lug which fitted into a radial slot on the lower plate. The top plate was to be swiveled by rotating a cap screw at the back of the contraption to move the top plate left and right, and then locked in position by tightening the cap screw in the front pivot and two more cap screws at the rear. The top plate would have dovetails to suit the Dolomit front and centre mountings.

Unfortunately the computer that this file was on suffered a power surge, otherwise I could have easily supplied a jpeg for a more 'visual' explanation. I might have a back up on a memory stick...... somewhere.... :( ... but I could always draw it up again, if the missus and kids could leave me alone for an hour :((

Are micrometer mountings available commercially? I did toy with a detent mechanism on the 'windage' screw... at the time I realised that a great deal of research (probably at the range) would be necessary to help calculate the division of the machined grooves if it were to have any similarity to the adjustment of the elevation turret... no doubt more research is required, and probably a lot of fine tuning once I get around to building the thing.

Your mount idea sounds good, I like it
-probably have your front pivot a meaningfull 12mm spigot or bigger and have the fit to the top plate a really close slip fit and then the 2 rear capscrews sound good.
-It depends if you want to take the odd really long shot without holding over? To ensure all the scopes internal elevation adjustment isnt used up just getting it to zero you could taper the lower plate of your mount (research on the specs of your scope and a lot of luck will determine by how much :). I machined a 25moa taper into mine.
http://hi-luxoptics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/rear-mount.pnghttp://hi-luxoptics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/frount-mount.png
Probably have a look on ebay for a cheap micrometer head and mount this, would be eminently more usefull & adaptable than playing around with existing micrometer mounts (you'll see why). The only new manufacture ones I know of these days are made by leatherwood and are reproductions of the Lyman/Unertl mounts - based around a 3/4" scope tube. I don't know if you are familiar with the system, but upon firing the scope was allowed to free travel forward under recoil forces until it came to rest against a stop and then was drawn back to "battery" by spring pressure (or by hand if the spring wasn't installed). a guide rib on the top of the tube and being supported/suspended (spring pressure forcing the tube against the 2 mike heads) in the the mount stopped it from rotating or losing POA under all this commotion. It is this setup I intend to use for my repro Model 70 build - but you would be able to see why it wouldn't be readily adaptable.
http://www.natchezss.com/images/products/LFM8USMCS.jpg
If you can recover your drawings i'd like to see them.

BrianLara400*
11th Nov 2012, 08:47 AM
Thanks Glen,
Tubal Cain shows a boring head for fly cutting in his book "milling operations on the lathe" After your endorsement I'm going to buy one. It won't be as flash as yours though!
Chris

The auto feature is nice it allows you to cut int'l circlip gooves, do spot faces, counter bores with clean bottoms etc and if your feeling adventurous tapered/conical holes (but I've not bothered).
But auto is certainly not essential and an ordinary boring/facing head still has much of the versatility and usually in a more compact package. Any thoughts as to what you may get?

Anorak Bob
11th Nov 2012, 09:37 AM
Glen,

There is a small FZA boring head on German Ebay at the moment. Greg Q has one and thought that I could use one. Alas, the 20mm arbor stops me in my tracks. :no:
Might be a handy thing for when the UPA-3 gets in the way.

Ausdrehkopf Original Friedrich Deckel FZA Ausbohrkopf Ausspindelkopf Deckel FP1 | eBay (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Ausdrehkopf-Original-Friedrich-Deckel-FZA-Ausbohrkopf-Ausspindelkopf-Deckel-FP1-/230877090349?ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:DE:1123)

Bob.

jack620
11th Nov 2012, 09:58 AM
Any thoughts as to what you may get?

I thought maybe something like this:

eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/370623015302?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_758wt_1348)

BrianLara400*
11th Nov 2012, 10:38 AM
Jack, cant comment too much on that as I've not used one - @ 12mm you might want to check, which dia shank boring bars you got that intend to use with it.
The collect/adaptors give some options.

Glen,

There is a small FZA boring head on German Ebay at the moment. Greg Q has one and thought that I could use one. Alas, the 20mm arbor stops me in my tracks. :no:
Might be a handy thing for when the UPA-3 gets in the way.

Ausdrehkopf Original Friedrich Deckel FZA Ausbohrkopf Ausspindelkopf Deckel FP1 | eBay (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Ausdrehkopf-Original-Friedrich-Deckel-FZA-Ausbohrkopf-Ausspindelkopf-Deckel-FP1-/230877090349?ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:DE:1123)

Bob.
yeah when you passed on it, good ol Greg forwarded the link on to me - I've sent the seller a message regarding postage. Ends tonight and it currently about that $100.
I too will need to purchase a collet for it, as the R5 ones I have only go to 5/8". I'll need to chase the ones that do away with the adaptor and fit straight to the No# 4 taper

I had been looking out for an FZA with the No4 taper and drawbar thread, but having a straight shack would open up a few options for use with the lathe I suppose.

Gerbilsquasher
11th Nov 2012, 08:18 PM
Wow, I see Gunsmithing got it's own forum - lets not muff this up with politics!


Don't get me started... :D

May I say thanks to the Mods for creating a separate category.... I believe that Australians are somewhat more mature and laid back than Americans ..... there shouldn't be too many dramas. Non-shooters may learn something about machining techniques etc.

Interesting idea with the micrometer... and very interesting commercial unit... something similar to scoped Winchesters you see in westerns... I think Clint Eastwood had one in 'Josey Wales'. I didn't think such things existed.

I will have a look at the PC... I think I need to replace the hard drive and I should be able to recover the data by slaving the original.

BrianLara400*
12th Nov 2012, 07:45 AM
Ausdrehkopf Original Friedrich Deckel FZA Ausbohrkopf Ausspindelkopf Deckel FP1 | eBay (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Ausdrehkopf-Original-Friedrich-Deckel-FZA-Ausbohrkopf-Ausspindelkopf-Deckel-FP1-/230877090349?ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:DE:1123)



Got him!

Did a little more over the weekend on the project, cut a further shoulder on the barrel and fitted the sandwiched recoil lug (very schmick fit) and thankfully maintained same head-space.
Will be busy with site work related stuff for a week or so now - but after that, the next free day and it'l be on again:;

eskimo
12th Nov 2012, 02:45 PM
something similar to scoped Winchesters you see in westerns... I think Clint Eastwood had one in 'Josey Wales'. I didn't think such things existed.


a mate has a Meacham 38/55 with one of those lyman lookalike scope with all that micrometer stuff...it is a piece of art:2tsup:...the gun and scope

I cant even afford the stock:oo:

BrianLara400*
20th Nov 2012, 09:19 PM
I got talking to the ebay seller that I bought the FZA boring head off,
has a few pretty nice machine tools in his workshop :;:


241665 241664


241666
He's also got a 13 manual, if your interested Bob?

Anorak Bob
20th Nov 2012, 10:38 PM
Very nice Glen,

The other machine is a versatile Hommel UWG2. Here is a link to an old thread featuring a beautiful Hommel dividing head along with the usual sidetracking. I'll blame Gregory.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/more-germany-time-mannheim-145965/#post1424435

If your interest is piqued there's more here. UWG-Hommel | Galerie » ASTOBA » Bild 8 (http://www.uwg-hommel.de/imgIndex.php?action=viewpic&nGalId=5&page=8)
I'm sure there is a similar English site. I'll keep looking.

BT

PS. My mill came with an original manual.

BrianLara400*
21st Nov 2012, 08:28 AM
a "schaublin-style" lathe from habegger (from switzerland too) ( Habegger - Neotor Lathes (http://www.lathes.co.uk/habegger/index.html) ) neotor ,
2 astoba uw1 universal "all in one" machines ( look at www.uw1.ch (http://www.uw1.ch/) ),
4 hommel uwgs (pic), 2 watchmakers lathes and a lorch lathe.

I loved old machines.
But the deckel is not really " old" , it is build in 1987.There is a big "wohlhaupter" bohring head (pic), so i never use the smaller " deckel FZA.That is th reason why i sold it.
a "schaublin-style" lathe from habegger (from switzerland too) ( Habegger - Neotor Lathes (http://www.lathes.co.uk/habegger/index.html) ) neotor ,
2 astoba uw1 universal "all in one" machines ( look at www.uw1.ch (http://www.uw1.ch/) ),
4 hommel uwgs (pic), 2 watchmakers lathes and a lorch lathe.

I loved old machines.
But the deckel is not really " old" , it is build in 1987.There is a big "wohlhaupter" bohring head (pic), so i never use the smaller " deckel FZA.That is th reason why i sold it.

I've invited frank to join up and tell you all about it, so fingers crossed.

BrianLara400*
3rd Dec 2012, 08:40 PM
Been talking a bit more with Frank (a real interesting bloke) and he has sent a few more pictures of his gear and his work.
I figured some of you may be interested:U
http://imageshack.us/a/img338/7104/cimg6331m.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img839/4592/cimg5004a.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img692/9296/cimg5007i.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img545/8435/cimg6280.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img267/7883/cimg5006v.jpg


http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/4070/4ndycgyhjfegaieptgqsmt.mp4


forum.zerspanungsbude.net • Thema anzeigen - neuer Messingscalenring für Feinmechanikerdrehbank y-Achse (http://forum.zerspanungsbude.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6274)




More progress on the bedding block/ stock project soon, .. I promise:;

Anorak Bob
4th Dec 2012, 12:07 AM
Been talking a bit more with Frank (a real interesting bloke) and he has sent a few more pictures of his gear and his work.
I figured some of you may be interested:U
More progress on the bedding block/ stock project soon, .. I promise:;

I'm interested. Frank's grey machine is an Astoba. More here - UW1 (http://uw1.ch/)

BT

ps. Check this out - Filme / Movies « UW1 (http://uw1.ch/archives/category/filme-movies)

BrianLara400*
17th Dec 2012, 11:16 AM
http://imageshack.us/a/img832/7264/stockleg.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img255/1338/monopodleg.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img690/7421/monopodlayout.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img268/2126/monopodlegclevis.jpg


This is yesterday evenings work -
The hinge tongue will be made of 1/4" PL and be let in though the plastic of the pistol grip cap & be arranged so as to pickup a number of cross bolts and the rest of the chassis etc. I'll flame bend the 35deg in the leg and cut/mill two flats on the hinge bolt so as to accept a 12mm spanner (same as the bipod spigot)

I'm now to the point where I need to consider how I'll go about making the vert adjustment, that attaches to the leg & for this I'd be open to suggestion's.
The most straight forward thing I can see is to have it drilled and tapped into the heel of the aluminium block that mounts the butt pad (visible in the 3rd photo) and the rest of the mech I've got to come up with. It will need some kind of spring loaded rollers so it track/follows the leg as the elevation of the bore line decreases (monod height increase) and doesn't bind.
The CAD drawing visible is an overlay of the Accuracy International plastic stock sides, over the butt assembly of the much bigger AI AW50

And I'd like to keep machining to a minimum http://www.shooting.com.au/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif


also wondering what people believe to be the best make of F-Class competition bipod?