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Rebus
23rd Feb 2005, 11:56 PM
Greetings,

I'm looking at buying a metal cutoff saw so that I can retire the hacksaw. I started at Bunnies looking at metal cuttoff saws (GMC Platinum through to Hitachi - from $180.00 to $450.00) and ended up at Hare and Forbes looking at their metal bandsaws (from $300.00 up to $1000.00 with coolant etc.)

At the moment I have to cut some solid 50mm squares of 1045 steel. Believe me, it's a tough job with the hacksaw :eek: Future use will probably range from more of the same down to smaller rounds, tubes, flats etc.

Question: Will a cutoff saw handle this sort of work (I'm willing to take the heavier stuff slowly) or will I need a bandsaw ?

Any experiences gladly received.

Regards,

rodm
24th Feb 2005, 01:12 AM
Hi Rebus
I would go the horizontal bandsaw. Less heat, very accurate, generally larger capacity, do not need operator when cut is started and much quieter to operate than a drop saw. Another advantage of the bandsaw is that you can use it in a vertical mode and manually cut shapes and circles.

I have two drop saws (one near dead) and the H&F BS-5 bandsaw so I have used both types.

Disadvantage of the bandsaw is that it is not as portable as the drop saw.
Like all decisions price will have some bearing on what you purchase but if you go the bandsaw I would get the BS-5S or larger unit. Definately get a bi-metal blade or two as the blade supplied with the saw will be low quality.
I have cut heaps of shaft including some stailess of up to 76mm on my unit and it has performed extremely well.

Hope this helps

Rebus
24th Feb 2005, 08:58 AM
Rod,

Many thanks for your response; just the experience I was seeking.

The BS-5S looks like a solid machine but I was thinking that I would have to go further to the BS-7LA. One reason being that the BS-5S does not have a cutting fluid system. Another reason was that H&F in Melbourne do not stock bi-metal blades for the smaller machines (although on reflection I can probably get them elsewhere). If you add $300.00 for a pump you're almost up to the cost of BS-7LA which is a far more robust machine with a much larger motor.

What's your view on the need for cutting fluid with a bandsaw ?

Regards,

Bob Willson
24th Feb 2005, 03:22 PM
Question: Will a cutoff saw handle this sort of work (I'm willing to take the heavier stuff slowly) or will I need a bandsaw ?

Hi Rebus
You might also want to look at cold cut cut off saws. These saws work at a much slower speed than abrasive saws and use what looks like a fine toothed wood saw blade. They are used with coolant and produce a cut that is clean and neat and ready to weld or whatever. Their own weight cuts the metal and you just set the saw up and then walk away to do something else for a few minutes.

gatiep
24th Feb 2005, 03:37 PM
I use the cold cut off saw that Bob mentioned and it is great for solids and provided one uses a fine blade it is great on the diy 1.6 mm wall thickness tubing. For non ferrous cutting my BAS-350 from Carbatec with a fine blade does well, it also dus well cutting ferrous metals at its lowest speed with a bimetallic metal cutting blade. It has a 1.5 hp motor, 2 speeds and 8" depth of cut which makes it a super woodcutting bandsaw at a reasonable price. By using it, I have one less machine to find space for.

:)

nexusone
24th Feb 2005, 11:31 PM
I bought the smallest herless bandsaw CY115 about 5-6 years ago. It was $350 back then, but you couldn't buy an abrasive drop saw for less than $400 (pre GMC days of course). I considered a cut off saw, but they are extremely noisy, and everything in your shed will get covered in black dust. The vices etc are not very robust.

the bandsaw (mine has no coolant) will cut bigger sections, has much better vice, is much quieter and makes no mess. It is quite slow, but you can switch it on and do other jobs in the shed while it is cutting (don't leave it unattended - my Dad's jammed and he burned out the motor when he was in the house). With careful setup it is quite accurate. I modified the base of mine with some stiffening and better wheels. I have cut quite a bit of heavy wall RHS (100mm) and also 4" steam pipe on it with no problems apart from speed. A bigger unit than mine would no doubt cut faster.

The blades are quite cheap (<$20) and would last several times longer than 14" abrasive discs. You can use it to cut wood, but steel dust and good wood don't mix that well.

Triton have just released a high speed cold cutting saw for steel. Looks very good, but only custs up to 50 x 50. I don't think the dry cold saw are good for heavy wall section. Also blades are very expensive for cold saws.

Steve

rodm
25th Feb 2005, 03:09 AM
Hi Rebus,
Unless you are into production runs coolant will be a pain. Proper coolant is a mixture of soluble mineral oils and it goes rancid after a while. Bacteria grows in it and unless you change it at regular intervals it will stink your workshop out. It is the lubrication benefits you need from coolant as little haet is generated by a bandsawn cut. You can comfortably hold a fresh sawn cut unlike a friction saw cut. I have done heaps of cuts without coolant and have never wished I had coolant.
Your choice for the BS-7LA should be based on a larger capacity and more powerful drive and not the coolant. If I had the funds and room in the shed I would not hesitate about the BS-7LA with a capacity of 175 X 300.
I agree with Steve on the stand for the BS-5S and I have also modified my stand and replaced the wheels. Not an issue with the BS-7LA and it has the advantage of a tray to collect the filings.

capedcrusader
26th Feb 2005, 12:57 AM
Ive got a 14 inch Hitachi abrasive cutoff saw. Ive found it to be a bit lacking in some ways for example the handle is offset too far from the cutting disk and tends to lever the disk from the cut edge and distort the cut. (this is with using a replacement disk - the Hitachi disk was better) It also tends to find heavy sections (ie:100x100x6 angle) a bit of a challenge when too much pressure is applied but this can be improved by turning the stock 45 degrees so that there are no flat surfaces to grind through (which the disk tends to just "polish" its way through slowly). OK for a budget solution though and way better than hacksawing.
I made a big bloody heavy steel security door recently and stuffed up by misjudging the weld distortion so I had to cut through the corner weld to reduce the door width and achieved this by removing the saw vise and positioning the cutoff saw under the door while on the ground so theyre useful from the versatility respect also.

Cheers

Rebus
1st Mar 2005, 08:03 PM
Many thanks to those who replied to my post. Your experience is of great value.

It was an interesting revelation about coolant (going rancid). I use coolant on my lathe, which I find to be well worthwhile, and it was only 2 weeks ago that I changed it over because of the smell ! I had put it down to some wood shavings that I had failed to keep out of the chip tray when I was "machining" some ebony.

Has anyone tried to extend the life of the coolant - say with some Pine-O-Clean to kill the bacteria ?

With regard to the original question: I have decided that a bandsaw is the way to go given my long term (25+ years !) requirements. Unfortunately, I have also decided that I will not be happy with anything less than the BS-7LA (or similar) due to its more robust build, capacity and larger motor. I say unfortunately because I don't have the room for it at the moment and there are other calls upon my hard earned.

So I will stick to the hacksaw supplemented by my angle grinder for the next few months or until I get a job that cannot be done without it.

However, your views and advice were of great value and saved me from going to a half-way solution which would not have been satisfactory in the longer term.

Regards,

nexusone
2nd Mar 2005, 09:20 PM
Rebus, if you are sticking with the angle grinder, try the new ultrathin cutting discs now available. They give a cut 1mm wide. So the amount of material removal and cutting speed is much better.

Steve

Rebus
3rd Mar 2005, 09:16 AM
Rebus, if you are sticking with the angle grinder, try the new ultrathin cutting discs now available. They give a cut 1mm wide. So the amount of material removal and cutting speed is much better.

Steve


Steve: Funny you should mention the 1mm disks ! :D

I picked up a couple of them from Just Tools in South Melbourne earlier this week. They are certainly faster and cleaner than the thicker disks. The only problem I found was that I use up a full disk just cutting off 1 piece from a bar of 50mm x 50mm 1045 steel. It could be a problem with technique but at over $2.00 each it would add up. :eek:

regards,

nexusone
3rd Mar 2005, 09:29 PM
Admitedly I've only used them for lighter work and have not cut 50 x 50 solid steel. However we also use them at my work for reasonable duty. My impression is they last as long as the thicker wheels, just cut faster and make less dust due to smaller kerf. Have only used the good brands like Flexovit and Pferd. How big is your angle grinder? Unfortunately 50x50 solid is going to give anything a hiding.

Steve

GerryD
11th Apr 2005, 12:20 AM
Hi ,

I am wanting to buy a metal cut off saw or bandsaw, i was hoping that you someone may be able to give me some tips on brands, prices and where i can buy one from?

Also any tips on where to purchase stainless steel sheeting if anyone has any?

Thanks very much to anyone for information.

Kind Regards

Gerry

Barry_White
11th Apr 2005, 10:17 AM
Gerry

Try Gasweld, they have a fair range of metal bandsaws or Hare and Forbes at Parramatta.

For stainless steel sheeting go to One Steel or Steelmark.

GerryD
11th Apr 2005, 03:10 PM
Thanks very much

Regards

Gerry

glock40sw
12th Apr 2005, 10:30 PM
G'day All.

Has anyone tried a TCT tipped circular saw for cold saw metal cutting in a compound saw?

I have a blade coming from Sawtec in Coffs.
I intend to fit it to a cheapie Ryobi 210mm Compound saw (designed for wood cutting).

I will post here the results of the trial, If I live.:D

Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor

Bob Willson
13th Apr 2005, 04:48 AM
I would think that a standard saw was far too fast for cold cutting.
From memory, these saws only run at about 30 rpm

glock40sw
13th Apr 2005, 12:29 PM
G'day Bob.
I thought so too.
However, There are TCT blades made to run at higher revs like a Compound Saw.( NOT angle grinder revs or Metal abrasive cutoff saw revs).

Bunnies have Irwin blades on the shelf that state the above.

Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor
Grafton

Barry_White
13th Apr 2005, 10:39 PM
I would think that a standard saw was far too fast for cold cutting.
From memory, these saws only run at about 30 rpm
These have been around for a long time. I used to use one about 20 years ago cutting light weight steel section to make steel framed Tilt-a-doors with an early model Makita mitre saw.

They don't leave as big a burr that a metal cut off blade leaves.

The cold saws you are thinking of like the Brobo will cut fairly heavy steel sections

Bob Willson
14th Apr 2005, 04:46 AM
The Brobo is EXACTLY the saw that I was thinking of. They will cut through steel up to about 124mm diameter.

Dennis Hill
10th May 2005, 09:26 PM
This advice could be a bit late but anyway..... One of my neighbours was a precision engineer. He moved up here 15 or 16 years ago when he sold his works in Sydney and bought some of his toys with him to keep himself busy around the farm. Sadly, he passed away just over 2 years ago but somehow I seem to have inhereted access to the workshop and the remaining toys. One of the most usefull things in the place is a 15+ year old Hafco metal bandsaw, the cheapest one they made way back then. It has had virtually no repairs needed, except for a motor replacement caused by "mud wasps" filling in the cooling passages. Blades seem to last quite well, I replaced one about 12 months ago and have done a fair bit of work with it so far and it still has life left in it yet.
There is little noise and no shower of sparks as you bet from an abrasive wheel saw. It is also a fairly automatic saw. You start the process and when the cut is complete the saw switches itself off.
Re the "Cold saws", I have one of the Makita TC tip blade metal saws and they are a good tool. They turn at about 1/2 the speed of a circular saw for wood and produce a smoother cut than an abrasive disc. They do produce some pretty hot metal flakes, most of which are caught in a container on the saw. The ones that escape and land inside your boots will make you hop around a bit though!
From my point of view abrasive cutting is the least attractive option. The saws are cheap enough but the cutting disc life can be very brief indeed and this means that you will end up paying more in the long term.
Dennis.