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View Full Version : Buying a New Hare and Forbs Lathe . Which one????



Timox
21st Feb 2005, 04:54 PM
Hi all, I am interested in buying a new lathe for hobby use and am wondering what i should get. Is the AL-32G any good and has anyone used one ? I can only afford to spend about $1800 on a good new lathe. I was also interested in the AL-50A and the AL-50GA and AL-54. If the AL-32G is leaps and bounds ahead of the others then i will streach the budjet and get one.

I also have to buy the stand for it and tools then there is freight on top of all this to Tasmania :( Heck, i probably cant even afford that.

Is there much diffrence between these lathes ?

Thanks for any help.
Tim.

rodm
21st Feb 2005, 11:37 PM
Hi Tim,
I think you have answered your own question really. Get the best you can afford and yes the AL32G is stronger, largest capacity lathe in your list and has more usable features.

Remember you can always do small work on a large lathe.

Tooling will cost you heaps so allow for this in your budget. At the least you will need a set of turning tools. I would recommend the indexable type until you can master sharpening HSS blanks.This will get you started without the frustration of - is it the cutter or the way I am approaching the job. Ebay is a good source for tooling - do a search on lathe.

H&F usually supply their lathes with chucks, faceplate and steadies but you will need a tailstock MT2 or 3 drill chuck, centre drill/s, micrometer or vernier, parting toool and later on a boring bar, knurling tool, dial gauge, etc ,etc.

I have the AL50GA and AL330A so if you want to know anything specific about these lathes let me know. By the way the only reason I got the AL50GA was because it is belt driven and runs a lot quieter than the large geared head lathe so I can use it a night.

A note about the stands - they are all too low for the average height Australian and expect some lower back pain if you get one with the lathe.

Also be real careful as metal swarf and rotating chucks are very dangerous. I have had more cuts (two that should have been stitched) in the last two years of metalworking than I have had with over thirty years of woodworking. Strange that I still treat woodworking with more caution than metalworking. :confused:

By the way I have overcome the cuts by a very useful tip I picked up on a lathe site. Put a rare earth magnet out of a computer hard drive inside a plastic bag and put your hand in there like a glove. Collect as much swarf as you can then turn the bag inside out and bin.

I have sent you a response to your email with a list of links for lathe sites. I find a lot of conflicting opinions as these people are like car owners and defend their choice even if they did buy a Ford. :rolleyes:

Note that I am a weekend amateur and only relatively new to lathe and milling operations.

Timox
22nd Feb 2005, 10:08 AM
Thanks for that Rod.

Looks like i might get the AL-32G. Thanks for the heads up about the stand. I was thinking of making one anyway, now i will as i am 6 foot tall :D

This will be my first lathe so dont know what toos i will need or what there names are, Are any of the tool kits or packages worth getting ? I already have Verniers and a dial gauge. I know what a knurling tool is and wont be needing one. What are the indexable type tools ?

I will be working with alloy mostly too so if i need specal tools for that let me know.;)

Thanks for the links too but they where blocked by my hotmail so i couldent use them :(
Tim.

rodm
23rd Feb 2005, 01:49 AM
Hi Tim
I had prepared a message twice for you but lost both while trying to get the links. I am a bit annoyed at myself for pressing the wrong button and loosing the messages so excuse me for only providsing the links. :(

You will learn a lot from them and there are hours of reading ahead.
Try this one first as it is an on line tutorial and covers most aspects of lathe work. Videos and all and it runs OK on a dial up connection.

http://www.jjjtrain.com/vms/library.html

Here are some Australian suppliers with priced online ordering (I make no recommendations on their products or prices)

http://www.engineering-tools.com.au/index.htm
http://www.hareandforbes.com.au/sample_2/home.php
http://www.minitech.com.au/
http://lprtools.eck.net.au/

Here are some lathe forums:

http://tokentoolroom.com/forum/
http://www.chaski.com/ubb/ubbthreads.php?Cat=
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi

Here are some other interesting sites:

http://users.moscow.com/oiseming/lc_ant_p/lnk_mtal.htm
http://members.optushome.com.au/terrybrown/
http://bedair.org/index.html
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~chrish/t-finish.htm

Hope this helps you

Timox
23rd Feb 2005, 10:25 AM
Thanks Rod, You are the best !!!!!:)


Because you are the only one on this forum that is willing to help can you tell me what i should be looking for in a lathe regarding the specifications ?

I see a lot of people have the 9 x 20 type lathe and are doing lots of mods to make them better.Would the AL-32G do away with needing these things done to it ? Is it like a slightly bigger 9 x 20 that has had all the beefing up done to it from the start ? I dont know if you know much about the AL-32G but you would probably know more than me. And anyone else out there who can help just jump right in.:D

Thanks,
Tim.

bitingmidge
23rd Feb 2005, 11:29 AM
Because you are the only one on this forum that is willing to help.

Deary me Tim that's a harsh call..... this is a Woodwork forum after all, with only a few with any detailed knowledge of things metal lathe!

Keep posting though guys, there's always something to glean!

P :D

Timox
23rd Feb 2005, 01:08 PM
Deary me Tim that's a harsh call..... this is a Woodwork forum after all,Just trying to stir up some activity:D Things are very quiet round these parts.
Mabe i should have re-worded that to Because his is the only person ABLE to help.

rodm
24th Feb 2005, 01:49 AM
Hi Tim
In my first post I wrote, "Note that I am a weekend amateur and only relatively new to lathe and milling operations." so please don't think I am an expert.

I have invested a lot of time researching and reading books so I hope that what I have said is reasonably close to the mark.

The AL50A and AL50GA are what the rest of the world call a 9X20 and the lathes are sold under many brands and models but all come from the same place and specifation. They are in fact clones of the Emco and they are marketed as an entry level lathe. Built to a price they do need some cleaning up and deburring but they can be used very successfuly without any further modification. There are lots of modifications suggested to improve the lathe but they are not essential.

I have not seen the AL32G but from the catalogue it does look a far more robust machine.

If this is any help my AL330A has been taken out of the crate, cleaned and used without modification or for that matter any adjustment and has performed very well.

The AL50GA was partly stripped down, leadscrew deburred, cleaned and re-assembled. I have built the 4 bolt toolpost and will be doing a couple of other mods to bring it up to a reasonable standard. Don't be caught up by the suggestions in the 9X20 Yahoo forum as some of them are fanatics and IMHO take it a bit over the top. They are a decent group and only too willing to help if you follow the 9X20 path.

Timox
24th Feb 2005, 07:41 PM
Ok, well lets just put the Hare and Forbes lathes to the side for the moment.

What other brands of lathes in Australia are there that are of top quality ??? I am looking for the really good quality lathes that do not require any extra work and are very accurate and solid as a rock.... What about something Australian made? I know they will be expencive but you get what you pay for. Oh and i just want to mention that i want a machine that works, not just own high profile brand names.

Could someone list the top brands for me that are avalible in Aus and some links to there websites or links to other peoples sites that are using these brand lathes ?

Thanks guys,
Tim.

rodm
25th Feb 2005, 04:20 AM
Hi Tim,
IMHO the H&F range is what is available on the Australian market. These lathes are made in China and Taiwan and it doesn't matter which seller you go to the same generic range will be offered but under different badging. By the way Taiwanese lathes are considered to be good quality.

If you look at the American market there are only a few lathe manufacturers still trading. The price of their machines is probably ten times more than a similar capacity lathe out of Asia. High labour costs and OHS standards have forced manufacture overseas. The chances of an Australian manufacturer still surviving are slim.

As a matter of interest American machinists are losing contracts to Asian machinists who compete for work over the internet. Apparently Asia can produce jobs and ship finished articles cheaper than their American counterparts.

There has also been a trasition in manufacturing from manual lathes to CNC which are highly specialised and very expensive.

I have provided alternative suppliers in the links I posted earlier and if you have a close look at the lathes they will be similar to the range offered by H&F. I am not an advocate of H&F but their range is typical of what the market has to offer.

In your first post you said you could only afford $1,800 for a new lathe so I think you are limited to the range we have been discussing.

Like you I was confused when I started out so take your time and properly research all you can before you make a decision. Also think about what you want to make because this will determine what you need to buy.

Timox
25th Feb 2005, 12:57 PM
Thanks Rod,


Well it looks like the Hare and Forbes are good value for money.

I have a concern about the AL-32G that i am a bit worried about. The swing over the cross slide is only about 106mm where as on the smaller AL-50GA it is about 130mm. Is this something to be worried about ??? I am.

The AL-32G is bigger in all other measurments but the cross slide. So far i only have small work in mind but you never know when you might want to do something big.

I live and work on a farm ( my dad is my boss ) and he also wants to get a lathe for doing things on the farm so he said he would buy it for us boath :D now comes the problem when he wants do work on something big. The AL-32G is the most money he is willing to spend on a lathe including tooling so any bigger is not an option.:( Unless i chip in another $600 and we get the AL-300 ??? It looks like a great lathe. If only the cross slide swing was bigger it would be perfict.... Is it going to be a big deal?

If so then how good is the AL-300 ?

AL-300
center height- 150mm
swing over bed- 300mm
swing over cross slide- 140mm

AL-32G
center height- 160mm
swing over bed- 320mm
swing over cross slide- 106mm

All other measurments are the same.

So, if money was no object, between these two what would be the more usefull and accurate machine?.......As a hobby lathe that is.

Thanks,
Tim.

E. maculata
25th Feb 2005, 04:44 PM
Don't overlook secondhand, I have owned for the past 11 years a 1950's australian made "Goodall" 13" swing on 36" bed, cost at the time was same as small H&Fs etc. I also have used a few large Nutall machines and believe apart from the metric/imperial thread issues, you would be hard pushed to find anything of similar tolerances this side of $20-30K.
this of course is only IMO :)

rodm
25th Feb 2005, 10:28 PM
Turning a 100mm solid shaft is by my standards a big job. Steel is not cheap and you could be looking at $100/metre for this size.
Probably the best way is to think about the machinery you have and what type of repairs or manufacturing you want to do. This should set your mind on a suitable lathe.
Both machines look of similar quality but I suggest you ring them and discuss the merits of each.

serpy2
20th Apr 2005, 08:55 PM
I Just Bought A Al-54 Lathe And Very Happy With It:) Have Used It Straight Out Of The Grate After A Clean Up Of Cause,, And Had No Problems ,,and As Stated By A Few Others Belt Drive Is Quiter And Good For Late Nite Work If U Have Houses Close To U
Regards Peter

rodm
21st Apr 2005, 12:58 AM
Hi Peter,
Great to see another wooodworker turning to the real dark side. :)
The AL-54 looks like a good machine and I thought about it before buying the AL-50GA. I settled on the smaller machine because I didn't need the capacity.
Did you get it from H&F or Fiora or .....?
The Yahoo 9X20 lathe group have just finished three PDF files that cover Getting Started on the Lathe and two on the 9X20 and Mini lathe.
I would recommend the getting started file as it covers the basics with lots of photos to show what is happening.
It is about 3MB and I can either send it to you or give you the group address. I think you will have to sign up to download the file though.

graemet
22nd Apr 2005, 10:45 AM
Hi Rodm,
I have just joined the yahoo group but can't find the files you mention. Can you point me in the right direction please?
Cheers,
Graeme

rodm
23rd Apr 2005, 12:06 AM
Hi Graeme
They have split the 9X20 group into two forums because there was not enough space.
The address is
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/9x20Lathe2/
and they are in the files section. The files sometimes disappear because Yahoo has a space limit on each group and this is a very popular site.
It is a pain but you will have to join this group as well to get the downloads.
If you are still having trouble PM me you email address and I will email the files to you.
cheers,
Rod

graemet
25th Apr 2005, 10:37 PM
Rod,
I have the download, have printed it out and read it (once). Metal turning no longer has the mystique that it once held for me. More thorough reading to come. It's a great primer and well worth the time to print. Many thanks (have sent you a greenie).
Cheers,
Graeme

glock40sw
27th Apr 2005, 09:38 AM
G'day Rod.

A greenie from me. Outstanding Info.
Thanks.
Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor
Grafton

barryr
29th May 2005, 01:01 PM
Don't overlook secondhand, I have owned for the past 11 years a 1950's australian made "Goodall" 13" swing on 36" bed, cost at the time was same as small H&Fs etc. I also have used a few large Nutall machines and believe apart from the metric/imperial thread issues, you would be hard pushed to find anything of similar tolerances this side of $20-30K.
this of course is only IMO :)
so true , I bought a new Toptec lathe last christmas - but only because I couldn't find a suitable second hand lathe .
However if you buy new you can usually haggle some freebies out of them .
I got a hafco live centre and a 9piece box set of cutting tools just for asking !

oh , and some free advice - you won't make many friends here by sucking up to 1 person and putting down the others who didn't chime in - people will help you if they can but it is a woodworkers forum after all .

KevinR100
28th Feb 2007, 09:28 PM
I did not see this thread which asks similar questions to a thread that I started last night. 6 lookers - no replies:rolleyes: I have been mainly on computer forums for ages now & I am used to giving or receiving fast replies. Metalwork lathes seem to require more thought....
uh - serpy2, has your capslock become semi stuck:?

Anyway here is the extract from my other thread -
I have an opportunity to make & sell 'running gear' for 'fast electric' model racing boats. Because of this I am thinking of buying a lathe & since some milling would be involved, a mill would be almost a necessity. My biggest worry is that I would buy something too small & not accurate enough for any other project that may come up later.
I am considering a lathe similar to the AL-280P but it is referred to as 500MM BC lathe/drill/mill/ combo. on ebay au.. The lathe that I would really like to buy is the AL-320G but I would then have to buy a separate mill. Just the money is the aspect that holds me back a little... I can afford them both (the mill & the Al-320G) but I am wondering if this would be an unnecessary/extravagant way of going. Price wise - $1100 as against $1995 + whatever mill.
Can anyone suggest anything or read minds or the future?
Any help will be read & considered carefully. btw I can use machine tools but I have not used them much for over 20 years.

EDIT: I have had an answer on my other thread - great, thanks.

kev