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Steamwhisperer
20th Nov 2011, 07:58 AM
Hi all
A few people have asked me to show what I do for a living. It certainly isn't your normal day job that's for sure, but it is a facet of engineering that is quickly becoming lost. In essence I suppose you would call it general engineering from around the turn of the century, last century, not this one. I actually get paid to repair/restore antique machines and steam engines that get used as working (not static) displays. A requirement of the job is to also use all the old skills that are quickly becoming lost with the advent of CNC machines. Quite a lot are hand skills, filing chiseling scraping etc.

My workshop
http://img.tapatalk.com/7cb0ccd4-1668-f1c2.jpg
Vanguard lathe with compound slide removed for setting up a job
http://img.tapatalk.com/7cb0ccd4-16d2-2306.jpg
Jones and Shipman pedestal drill. New century model
http://img.tapatalk.com/7cb0ccd4-17a7-3848.jpg
Geo Richards & co. Vertical mill
http://img.tapatalk.com/7cb0ccd4-17f1-885c.jpg
And of course the Buffalo vertical steam engine to power it all
http://img.tapatalk.com/7cb0ccd4-1836-dfd4.jpg
Heaps more if anyone is interested including the forge and anvil plus the power hammer.

Phil

Bryan
20th Nov 2011, 08:23 AM
Phil, are you using a camera or a phone? The pics are too tiny to see anything. I would like more details of all of those machines, especially the mill. I can't tell if it's a weird configuration or there's something behind it. Sorry to whine, but it's not fair to tease us!

Steamwhisperer
20th Nov 2011, 08:39 AM
Hi Bryan
Photos are from the phone
I will repost from the computer...in fact I will do it now

RayG
20th Nov 2011, 09:01 AM
Hi Phil,

Nice one, I'm intrigued. More pictures, then we start with the questions.. :)

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's more than a little envious of your job... any vacancies? :rolleyes:

Regards
Ray

Steamwhisperer
20th Nov 2011, 09:07 AM
Try these and let me know

Phil

Steamwhisperer
20th Nov 2011, 09:13 AM
Hi Phil,

Nice one, I'm intrigued. More pictures, then we start with the questions.. :)

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's more than a little envious of your job... any vacancies? :rolleyes:

Regards
Ray

Hi Ray,
Easily enough work for 3 more competent men, oops, people.
They just cant employ at the moment but I am working on it.

Phil

Steamwhisperer
20th Nov 2011, 09:51 AM
As requested Ray,
some more pics
Heaps more to come
Phil

RayG
20th Nov 2011, 10:21 AM
Hi Phil,

There's plenty of good history there, I'm surprised at the size of the steam engine, I guess the boiler is outside..

Need more power on the mill, just throw a few more logs into the boiler...:D Sort of an early version of a VFD..

I like that power hammer, with the foot pedal. :2tsup:

I'm a bit confused by the drill press bolted to the post, is it hand operated?


Regards
Ray

Steamwhisperer
20th Nov 2011, 11:04 AM
Hi Phil,

There's plenty of good history there, I'm surprised at the size of the steam engine, I guess the boiler is outside..

Need more power on the mill, just throw a few more logs into the boiler...:D Sort of an early version of a VFD..

I like that power hammer, with the foot pedal. :2tsup:

I'm a bit confused by the drill press bolted to the post, is it hand operated?


Regards
Ray

Hi ray,
The boilers are situated in their own house about 100 feet away. Steam engines have a lot of torque and build up serious momentum once they are running.
Ya gotta love the 1850's version of the VFD, if I don't have the right speed on the lathe etc. I just slow down or speed up the engine until perfect.
The power hammer is a Champion Blower and Forge Co. No1 power hammer made in Lancaster PA in July 1902. I have used it but the foundations had rotted away so I am relocating it and renewing the foundations.
The post drill is hand operated and made by Dawn. It also has auto feed on it. Only a smithy could operate it for any length of time as you need a strong right arm...as I found out.

Phil

Steamwhisperer
20th Nov 2011, 11:17 AM
I would like more details of all of those machines, especially the mill. I can't tell if it's a weird configuration or there's something behind

Hi Bryan,
She is a state of the art mill. The configuration you might be talking about is the traverse reversing trip rods and mechanism. When traversing automatically the stops move the rods and engage either forward or reverse gears for traverse. At the end of each stroke the quill moves down a notch.
Let me know if you need any more info

Phil

.RC.
20th Nov 2011, 12:35 PM
Very nice.... That is what you call a place with character...

Steamwhisperer
20th Nov 2011, 02:10 PM
Very nice.... That is what you call a place with character...

Hi Richard,
It's hard to explain the ambience of screwcutting a 1 1/2" whit. thread on the old vanguard lathe with the engine running on the governor and the belts flapping at full tilt. It's adds a whole new dimension to machining. And all this by kerosine lamp.

Phil

Stustoys
20th Nov 2011, 03:18 PM
Hi Phil,
Interesting picture Thanks.
I remember being in the building with the metal spinning lathe, the line drive gently rocking pretty much the whole building (if a building can gently rock lol) side to side . Still got the fry pan to prove it.

Stuart

Steamwhisperer
20th Nov 2011, 03:52 PM
Hi Phil,
Interesting picture Thanks.
I remember being in the building with the metal spinning lathe, the line drive gently rocking pretty much the whole building (if a building can gently rock lol) side to side . Still got the fry pan to prove it.

Stuart


You would love that building now. It kinda' violently rocks from side to side. Lol

Phil

neksmerj
20th Nov 2011, 04:25 PM
Whilst the kids are fossicking around Sovereign Hill, what are the chances of us oldies having a tour around your fabulous workshop?

Of course we'd bring ice cold bottles of Ballarat Bitter and famous Ballarat cake shop pies.

Ken

beer is good
20th Nov 2011, 05:05 PM
Steamwhisperer,
More power to you in your restoration, preservation and keeping the old skills going. I don't know much about machining and metal as I am mainly into woodwork, but I really like the old machinery.

I think steam will enjoy a comeback - a small nuclear reactor powering trains - why not?

I was amused the other night watching a program about a nuclear submarine. They can fire the nuke missiles while the sub is under water, but they use steam to push the missile up to the surface when the rocket engine takes over.


Keep up the good (and very important) work. :2tsup:

Steamwhisperer
20th Nov 2011, 05:06 PM
Whilst the kids are fossicking around Sovereign Hill, what are the chances of us oldies having a tour around your fabulous workshop?

Of course we'd bring ice cold bottles of Ballarat Bitter and famous Ballarat cake shop pies.

Ken

Absolutely Ken.
In fact I would be happy to offer anyone off this forum the grand tour.
Ummm so long as I am working that day of course. There is a lot of stuff the public doesn't see.

Phil

RayG
20th Nov 2011, 06:34 PM
Hi Phil,

I like that solid cast iron bench top, was it originally cast as a bench, or is it off something else?

Regards
Ray

neksmerj
20th Nov 2011, 07:07 PM
Hi Phil,

I love our history, especially old machines. I've crawled all over Sovereign Hill, and watched with amazement at gold production, including the beam engine that pumps water out of the mine using steam, same thing at Fryers Town, and can't forget the iconic Spirit of Progress.

The Spirit of Progress is gone, not even a carriage preserved, so it's just great to hear you are doing what our forefathers failed to do, preserve our history.

I for one, would love to pay you a visit, and reckon Greg Q would join me. If others are keen to take up your invitation, say so, and maybe we can tee up a day.

Believe it not, Ballarat Bitter is making an emergence, at selected pubs in Ballarat, maybe just for this ocassion.

Good on ya Phil for what you are doing.

Ken

Steamwhisperer
20th Nov 2011, 08:24 PM
Hi Phil,

I like that solid cast iron bench top, was it originally cast as a bench, or is it off something else?

Regards
Ray

Hi ray,
Would you believe it's actually a temperature controlled marking out table. They would run warm water through it to keep it stable and word has it lolly makers grabbed them after they were worn out.

Phil

Steamwhisperer
20th Nov 2011, 08:41 PM
I for one, would love to pay you a visit, and reckon Greg Q would join me. If others are keen to take up your invitation, say so, and maybe we can tee up a day.

Believe it not, Ballarat Bitter is making an emergence, at selected pubs in Ballarat, maybe just for this ocassion.

Thanks Ken
It's a labour of love that's for sure. It would be great to see Greg again, loved the coffee as well. If there is a decent group I will take the day off and we can have a decent tour. I will try and get free entry for the day but can't promise anything.

Phil

Bryan
20th Nov 2011, 09:34 PM
Hi Bryan,
She is a state of the art mill. The configuration you might be talking about is the traverse reversing trip rods and mechanism. When traversing automatically the stops move the rods and engage either forward or reverse gears for traverse. At the end of each stroke the quill moves down a notch.
Let me know if you need any more info

Phil

Phil, thanks for the new pics - much better! Not sure I'm clear about the mill. Does the head feed along that cross rail, in what we would now call the X axis? It must, since there's nothing I can see that could drive the table. So it's a travelling head mill. Cool. And that long belt must loop around the spindle, allowing it to travel, but changing the speed slightly when it reverses. Is it a rapid reverse, like a shaper or planer, not intended for cutting, or does the quill feed down at each end of the stroke?

Next trip I'll drop in for sure.

jhovel
20th Nov 2011, 10:01 PM
I'd be interested in a "private" tour of Sovereign Hill for sure!
How about you set a date Phil and see who can make it?

Joe

Steamwhisperer
20th Nov 2011, 10:31 PM
I'd be interested in a "private" tour of Sovereign Hill for sure!
How about you set a date Phil and see who can make it?

Joe

Leave it with me Joe and I will get back to you

Phil

Steamwhisperer
20th Nov 2011, 10:39 PM
Phil, thanks for the new pics - much better! Not sure I'm clear about the mill. Does the head feed along that cross rail, in what we would now call the X axis? It must, since there's nothing I can see that could drive the table. So it's a travelling head mill. Cool. And that long belt must loop around the spindle, allowing it to travel, but changing the speed slightly when it reverses. Is it a rapid reverse, like a shaper or planer, not intended for cutting, or does the quill feed down at each end of the stroke?

Next trip I'll drop in for sure.

Hi Bryan,
You got it in one. It's a traveling head mill. I will take more photos of the trav mechanism tomorrow. The traverse is the same speed in both directions and yes the quill feeds down at the end of each traverse
Hopefully my new pics tomorrow will make it all clearer

Phil

RayG
20th Nov 2011, 11:07 PM
Hi ray,
Would you believe it's actually a temperature controlled marking out table. They would run warm water through it to keep it stable and word has it lolly makers grabbed them after they were worn out.

Phil

Hi Phil,

I can see it now, run the condensate line from the boiler back through the workbench, just the thing for those cold frosty Ballarat mornings... :)

For those who don't know, Ballarat is the coldest place known to man... well maybe excepting for Kyneton...:rolleyes:

I'm up for a tour whenever it suits.. :2tsup:

Regards
Ray

Steamwhisperer
21st Nov 2011, 05:50 AM
For those who don't know, Ballarat is the coldest place known to man... well maybe excepting for Kyneton...:rolleyes:

I'm up for a tour whenever it suits.. :2tsup:

Regards
Ray

You are right Ray, Ballarat cold doesn't hit your skin it goes straight to your bones. With the engine running nice and hot and the forge going its a nice place to be. lol
I will try and sort something today with regards to a tour.

Phil

Machtool
21st Nov 2011, 12:27 PM
I will try and sort something today with regards to a tour. Count me in for that also. I could use a day out of town, work is boring me at the minute.

Its an easy hour and 10 minutes drive from here, If any one wanted to car pool from here, its generally on the way for most of you that would use the ring road. Or I’ll have one spare seat in the van.

I’d be happy to pay admission, its reasonably cheap if its only one ticket, if you’re not getting the whole family in.

Regards Phil.

Steamwhisperer
21st Nov 2011, 06:09 PM
Hi all,
I found out today that there is a discount for groups but I still have to catch up with one of the directors about a free pass for all. I have to go out for tea now, something about my birthday or something. After 53 of them ya tend to forget a bit.

Phil

Machtool
21st Nov 2011, 06:21 PM
something about my birthday or something. After 53 of them ya tend to forget a bit.And you don’t look a day over 52. Happy Birthday Phil.

The other Phil.

jhovel
21st Nov 2011, 06:57 PM
Happy birthday, Phil!

Steamwhisperer
21st Nov 2011, 08:48 PM
Thanks for the wishes gentlemen and Phil lol

Phil

Stustoys
21st Nov 2011, 09:19 PM
Hi Phil

+1 for the Happy Birthbay Phil.

I'll be interested in the tour also.

Stuart

Steamwhisperer
21st Nov 2011, 10:24 PM
Hi Phil

+1 for the Happy Birthbay Phil.

I'll be interested in the tour also.

Stuart

Thanks Stuart
I am still waiting to see the director about a group free pass (he was doing job interviews for prospective employees today) so I will try and see him tomorrow.
This weekend might be a bit close for everyone (if not let me know) and the weekend after that I am...ummm...well...getting engaged. The weekend after that I have the Sunday and Monday off if that helps.

Phil

Steamwhisperer
21st Nov 2011, 10:30 PM
Steamwhisperer,
More power to you in your restoration, preservation and keeping the old skills going. I don't know much about machining and metal as I am mainly into woodwork, but I really like the old machinery.

I think steam will enjoy a comeback - a small nuclear reactor powering trains - why not?

I was amused the other night watching a program about a nuclear submarine. They can fire the nuke missiles while the sub is under water, but they use steam to push the missile up to the surface when the rocket engine takes over.


Keep up the good (and very important) work. :2tsup:

Hi Beer is good
thanks for the comments
The odd thing about steam coming back is that the steam engine was never really developed to its full potential when the diesel engine was invented so lots of scope there.

Phil

Steamwhisperer
21st Nov 2011, 10:42 PM
Here you go Bryan, some more photos

Phil

Steamwhisperer
21st Nov 2011, 10:47 PM
and 3 more

Steamwhisperer
22nd Nov 2011, 06:33 AM
These are the last pics of my workshop
The next lot will be the machinery i have to or have worked on.
After that will be current projects.

these photos are of the forge in operation. I had a couple of Blacksmiths who run their farm using steam power and traditional smithing methods.

They didn't like the position of the anvil so they moved it

Bryan
22nd Nov 2011, 08:56 AM
Thanks Phil. I think I've got it now. :2tsup: Do you know the maker of that mill, and approx vintage?

Steamwhisperer
22nd Nov 2011, 10:04 AM
Hi Bryan
The mill is a Geo. Richards & Co. from Broadheath near Manchester. We aren't sure about it's actual age but believe it to be pre 1910

Phil

nadroj
22nd Nov 2011, 10:37 AM
They're great photos of the workshop, with beams of sunlight shining in amongst the splendid looking machinery. Men at work!

Jordan

Machtool
22nd Nov 2011, 11:10 AM
and the weekend after that I am...ummm...well...getting engaged. Well I guess a man cant go though life, just being happy. Welcome back to the club.


This weekend might be a bit close for everyone (if not let me know)How much notice do you blokes need? I’m O.K with that, I’ve just dropped Greg a note, to see what his movements are like. Are we talking about this Saturday, the 26th Nov?

The engagement weekend, is out, that’s Sat 3rd Dec

The weekend after that I have the Sunday and Monday off if that helps.That would be Sun 11th Dec & Mon 12th Dec. I think that’s our only another option.

The weekend after Sat 17th, is the week before Christmas, I’d expect a few of us not to be available, as we will be head down mowing lawns, and cleaning Barbeques. I’d have problems with that weekend, its my young blokes 18th birthday on the 18th.


Regards Phil

P.S I think I have every one that has expressed an interest email / phone contacts. Do you want me to stir them up? Especially if we push for this weekend.

Steamwhisperer
22nd Nov 2011, 04:07 PM
[QUOTE=Machtool;1404579]Well I guess a man cant go though life, just being happy. Welcome back to the club.

[COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]How much notice do you blokes need? I

Steamwhisperer
22nd Nov 2011, 04:09 PM
Cool only half the post. Got good news on the free entry. More tonight

Steamwhisperer
22nd Nov 2011, 06:25 PM
Hi all
I managed to tie the director down today and put forward my proposal with regards to a visit from a very interested group of gentlemen. It was his suggestion for free entry and he backed it up with heavily discounted rates at the lodge if an overnight stay was required and maybe even a discount on a meal. He then expanded on visiting some city highlights. It was here I thought I should slow him down a bit.
I told him I was thinking of Sovereign Hill as a destination for our Scraping Class Reunion and he reiterated all of the above offers plus a trip down into the mine on the incline tramway and also the Blood on the Souther Cross show with a meal. He then suggested the reunion be held on our 'Steam-Up Weekend' which will be on one of the preliminary final weekends in September of next year. He was adamant that this go ahead and I did everything but lock it in. Lots of Steam machinery and displays visiting as well as our own engines.
It didn't seem to matter how many people were in the group and wasn't shocked when I suggested it could be up to twenty people.
How many can we get between now and Saturday or Sunday. I am available both days as a tour guide.

Phil

Steamwhisperer
22nd Nov 2011, 06:29 PM
Well I guess a man cant go though life, just being happy. Welcome back to the club.

How much notice do you blokes need? I’m O.K with that, I’ve just dropped Greg a note, to see what his movements are like. Are we talking about this Saturday, the 26th Nov?

P.S I think I have every one that has expressed an interest email / phone contacts. Do you want me to stir them up? Especially if we push for this weekend.

Hi Phil
I reckon the Saturday or second option the Sunday
If you could stir them up that would be great

Phil

PDW
22nd Nov 2011, 07:04 PM
Hi all
I managed to tie the director down today and put forward my proposal with regards to a visit from a very interested group of gentlemen. It was his suggestion for free entry and he backed it up with heavily discounted rates at the lodge if an overnight stay was required and maybe even a discount on a meal. He then expanded on visiting some city highlights. It was here I thought I should slow him down a bit.
I told him I was thinking of Sovereign Hill as a destination for our Scraping Class Reunion and he reiterated all of the above offers plus a trip down into the mine on the incline tramway and also the Blood on the Souther Cross show with a meal. He then suggested the reunion be held on our 'Steam-Up Weekend' which will be on one of the preliminary final weekends in September of next year. He was adamant that this go ahead and I did everything but lock it in. Lots of Steam machinery and displays visiting as well as our own engines.
It didn't seem to matter how many people were in the group and wasn't shocked when I suggested it could be up to twenty people.
How many can we get between now and Saturday or Sunday. I am available both days as a tour guide.

Phil

Works for me. I dropped by Sovereign Hill last year on the way back from Sydney, will be going up to Sydney for the winter next year as well, I expect. I didn't see everything I wanted to last time so, given a decent lead time for planning travelling, I'd love to spend a weekend there.

PDW

jhovel
22nd Nov 2011, 08:43 PM
Phil(s),
I would be available this Saturday am only or Sunday pm only. Pam and I are going to see a show Satruday night in Melbourne and staying overnight to go to the Camberwell market.....
Before and after that is OK.

Joe

Steamwhisperer
22nd Nov 2011, 08:48 PM
Sunday the 11th is also a good day for me if this weekend is no good

Phil

Steamwhisperer
22nd Nov 2011, 09:41 PM
three engines that require some work

Stustoys
22nd Nov 2011, 10:40 PM
Hi Phil,

Well thats some heavy looking iron you have to work on there.

I had a weekend stay in the lodge with meals, blood on the southern cross, two day passes etc. Had a great time..... not so sure about the boss.

Not sure I can make any of those dates but thanks for the offer and a great time to those that can make it.

Stuart

Machtool
22nd Nov 2011, 11:58 PM
O.K lots to digest there

First and foremost, let’s keep Sep 2012 up our sleeve for a “Steam Up” / Scrap Up reunion. And those offers are more than, over the top generous.

I’ve heard back from Greg. He is head down / #### up with his studies on the new aircraft. Something I concur with. I’m often sitting up the back, and hoping those guys can land it. He doesn’t have a lot of spare time in the next few months.

So – A Short sharp visit this Saturday is possible. Joe’s heading to town, so if he was to take a round trip. 40 miles extra. I’ll talk to Ken J. I’ve just sent a brief email to Ray. Maybe Stu can be convinced to slip out of town for 10 hours. (Tell her, you have taken up golf)

So it would only be a handful of us. I’m happy to drive up. I have something for Phil. And its almost quicker to drive it there, then go to the post office.

Phil

Steamwhisperer
23rd Nov 2011, 06:15 AM
O.K lots to digest there

First and foremost, let’s keep Sep 2012 up our sleeve for a “Steam Up” / Scrap Up reunion. And those offers are more than, over the top generous.

I’ve heard back from Greg. He is head down / #### up with his studies on the new aircraft. Something I concur with. I’m often sitting up the back, and hoping those guys can land it. He doesn’t have a lot of spare time in the next few months.

So – A Short sharp visit this Saturday is possible. Joe’s heading to town, so if he was to take a round trip. 40 miles extra. I’ll talk to Ken J. I’ve just sent a brief email to Ray. Maybe Stu can be convinced to slip out of town for 10 hours. (Tell her, you have taken up golf)

So it would only be a handful of us. I’m happy to drive up. I have something for Phil. And its almost quicker to drive it there, then go to the post office.

Phil

HI Phil
the reunion is a' must do' now I think.
If there is one, two, three, five ,ten coming its not a problem. I am still happy to take you guys around.
Shame about greg but I think I would prefer he study as well as I am occasionally up the back too. lol
Stuart, I need some consultation on machine restoration. (you could try that one maybe)

Phil

RayG
23rd Nov 2011, 08:55 AM
Hi Phil,

Can't make it for this weekend, due to extended family re-enactment of "Blood on the Southern Cross" ... sorry Christmas party, hard to tell the difference some years..:)

The September steam/scrape party sounds like a winner... there must be some heavy duty scraping around there that a group of loud drunks can help with...:)

Regards
Ray

Machtool
23rd Nov 2011, 12:52 PM
Is Sun 11th Dec or Mon 12th Dec better for anyone else? Greg is pretty much out of anything this side of Christmas.

I’m still thinking about making a flying visit this Saturday. But I think that would only be 3 of us, Joe, Ken J and myself, at this stage.

I don’t want to spoil that for any one that could make it on the 11th or 12th. So I’d be happy to postpone it until then.

I’ve just knocked up the boys from Horsham, waiting to hear back from them.

Regards Phil.

{Adding on Edit}
Is this Sunday afternoon better for anyone, Lunchtime on, when Joe gets back from the big smoke. I’ve just heard back from Ken, he’s out for Saturday.

Stustoys
23rd Nov 2011, 01:41 PM
I think I can do Sunday afternoon.
As it stands ATM I have to be in Bacchus March for dinner, so as seems to be my pattern I might have to run off early. :(

Stuart

p.s. I could likely do Mon the 12th also

jhovel
23rd Nov 2011, 04:07 PM
If there is a choice, I would prefer any time over the 11/12 weekend, as Pam is not really happy about changing her plans over thid weekemd - nor going separately in two cars....

Joe

Steamwhisperer
23rd Nov 2011, 05:28 PM
Whatever suits gentlemen. I am easy.

Phil

Machtool
23rd Nov 2011, 07:14 PM
I’m starting to think that the 11th or 12th is going to be a better option, for more people to attend. Remembering the 12th is a Monday / work day. I’d imagine the Sunday 11th is high season for Christmas functions. So which day suits more people? I’m totally flexible for either day.

Phil.

Steamwhisperer
23rd Nov 2011, 07:32 PM
Sunday is busier than Monday and that won't bother us at all. In fact I have no idea why I threw that in there. But then I am 53 years old

Phil

Steamwhisperer
23rd Nov 2011, 09:05 PM
One of the first jobs I had when I started working at the'Hill' was to screwcut some mounting studs for a steam engine installation. This consisted of screwcutting both ends of twelve pieces shaft (approx one metre long) inch and a half Whitworth. The only lathe they had (and still have) is an old...old Nuttal lathe that had been relegated to turning brass bits and (dare I say it) wood. first check was to make sure the half nuts would stay engaged under load. No they dont! I had enough shafting to make absolutely no mistakes. Suffice it to say it all went well.
After that the restoration began.
First pic is the studs set up ready for the concrete.
Second pic is the engine being lifted into position.
Third is the flywheel and crank being lifted in.
Fourth is the cleaning of the engine to assess any repairs.
Fifth and sixth is a big jump to the completed engine up and running.

jhovel
23rd Nov 2011, 09:09 PM
Sunday is preferred at my end - given a choice...

Joe

Steamwhisperer
23rd Nov 2011, 10:18 PM
Here are the boilers that power the engines
The one on the left is a Thompsons of Castlemaine built in 1909 and the one on the right is a Roberts and sons of Bendigo built in 1911.
Second pic is the Roberts boiler
Third is the Thompson
Fourth is the Welch Perrin feedwater pumps
Fifth is the Thompson boiler about to be reassembled after its annual clean out. This is my job at the moment.

Stustoys
23rd Nov 2011, 11:59 PM
Nice pictures Phil, keep them coming. I certainly remember the boilers.

I cant make this Saturday or Dec 11th

Stuart

RayG
24th Nov 2011, 06:52 AM
Hi Phil,

How do you cut a thread, when the half nuts don't stay engaged under load? Sounds like a delicate job.. :)

I don't have any plans, (that I know of) for Monday the 12th ...

Regards
Ray

Steamwhisperer
24th Nov 2011, 07:18 AM
Hi Phil,

How do you cut a thread, when the half nuts don't stay engaged under load? Sounds like a delicate job.. :)

I don't have any plans, (that I know of) for Monday the 12th ...

Regards
Ray

Hi Ray,
Apologies.
I only half explained that. The half nuts would engage and then as soon as any load is put on them they disengage. Fantastic to have that happen on the final cut as you could imagine. I have a habit of holding the engagement lever down with my left hand whenever I am screwcutting on an old lathe as a matter of course now. It saves a lot of grief, especially when the boss gets enough material for no mistakes. But then restoring steam engines is all about not making mistakes as quite often you are repairing original parts as opposed to making new ones Popping down to the store to buy new parts is not an option anymore lol

Phil

Steamwhisperer
24th Nov 2011, 07:43 PM
With the Walker engine it was directed that the installation be done the traditional way.The Datum supplied was the centerline of the winches to meet up with the centerline of the engines crankshaft. This involved running a thin wire from the winch centrline to the opposing wallTraditionally piano wire is used and as hard as i searched I could not find anyone who sells piano wire. Next best(sort of) was MIG wire. Another wire was then run at right angles from the wall behind the engine through the cylinder bores and attached to the centre of a plate bolted where the cylinder cover attaches. Wedges were then placed under the engine to facilitate small adjustments for alignment. These were made from 2 inch square bar cut diagonally and numbered to remain as matched setsCalipers are then used from the wire to the cylinder walls for proper alignment while tapping the wedges. If anyone has done machining with calipers then you will know you can achieve less than 0.001" accuracy just by feel. the gap under the engine is then grouted after the hold down bolts are tightened. The engine runs as smooth as silk and has done for nearly three years.

PDW
25th Nov 2011, 08:27 AM
With the Walker engine it was directed that the installation be done the traditional way.The Datum supplied was the centerline of the winches to meet up with the centerline of the engines crankshaft. This involved running a thin wire from the winch centrline to the opposing wallTraditionally piano wire is used and as hard as i searched I could not find anyone who sells piano wire. Next best(sort of) was MIG wire. Another wire was then run at right angles from the wall behind the engine through the cylinder bores and attached to the centre of a plate bolted where the cylinder cover attaches. Wedges were then placed under the engine to facilitate small adjustments for alignment. These were made from 2 inch square bar cut diagonally and numbered to remain as matched setsCalipers are then used from the wire to the cylinder walls for proper alignment while tapping the wedges. If anyone has done machining with calipers then you will know you can achieve less than 0.001" accuracy just by feel. the gap under the engine is then grouted after the hold down bolts are tightened. The engine runs as smooth as silk and has done for nearly three years.

Using a tight wire is a good trick for all sorts of things.

When I was setting up the keel plate for my boat (it's 7.6m of 200x40 flat bar tapered in at both ends) I stretched a tight wire the length of the barn and dropped plumb bobs to the keel centre line. As I erected each frame I could use the wire & plumb bob to ensure they were vertical and on their marks. You have to be fussy as you're ultimately dealing with thin plate so a 3mm error might mean 2 sheets won't meet nicely.

PDW

Machtool
25th Nov 2011, 02:05 PM
Just a quick note. This weekend’s visit is off, Sat or Sun. I think I was the only one available.

So, Sunday 11th or Mon 12th Dec. Perhaps if you guys can email me, I’ll keep the tally, to save diluting Phil’s thread anymore. I’ve been in touch with the Horsham crew. Some potential that they will be available also.

Phil

machtool at bigpond dot net dot au

P.S

and as hard as I searched I could not find anyone who sells piano wire.If you ever need any, I have a collection.

Steamwhisperer
25th Nov 2011, 07:02 PM
[QUOTE=Machtool;1406281][FONT=Verdana]Just a quick note. This weekend

Steamwhisperer
25th Nov 2011, 07:05 PM
What the hell is wrong with this phone!!!!
I will re-do that post when I get home

Phil

Machtool
25th Nov 2011, 09:10 PM
What the hell is wrong with this phone!!!!
I’m not sure what the time span here is, but you can always, click the edit button, and delete or edit a message with in the edit time allowed. I have no experience with a phone, I have enough trouble at my desk.

Regards Phil.

Bryan
25th Nov 2011, 10:09 PM
Phil I'm really enjoying the pics. I've been doing a bit of introductory reading about steam engines. It's astonishing how many different designs there were. Though I guess not all were successful. I would love to learn a bit more about some of the engines you have - just in broad terms what types they are, maybe their nominal ratings and what they are powering. For instance, what's the big cable winch for?

Steamwhisperer
25th Nov 2011, 10:09 PM
Just a quick note. This weekend’s visit is off, Sat or Sun. I think I was the only one available.

So, Sunday 11th or Mon 12th Dec. Perhaps if you guys can email me, I’ll keep the tally, to save diluting Phil’s thread anymore. I’ve been in touch with the Horsham crew. Some potential that they will be available also.

Phil

machtool at bigpond dot net dot au

P.S
If you ever need any, I have a collection.

Hi Phil
what I was trying to say was thanks for doing all this for me. If it helps, I am available on the 11th and 12th to show everyone around so that if some can only make it on the Sunday and the rest on the Monday, that is still ok.

Phil

Steamwhisperer
26th Nov 2011, 06:24 AM
Phil I'm really enjoying the pics. I've been doing a bit of introductory reading about steam engines. It's astonishing how many different designs there were. Though I guess not all were successful. I would love to learn a bit more about some of the engines you have - just in broad terms what types they are, maybe their nominal ratings and what they are powering. For instance, what's the big cable winch for?

Hi Bryan
I think we will stick to just the engines we have otherwise if I was to give you a brief rundown on all the diffeent types of engines we would be here forever (which is not a bad thing).
I guess the first one to be regarded as an engine would be Hero's engine which is not strictly an engine but is an Aeliophile. Kinda like a reaction turbine. Turbines are steam engines as well. These go back to 400 AD. We use ours to teach kids about steam on the goldfields during the school holidays. Dont laugh too much at the photo, it was taken by someone else which is sadly why I am in it. (that wont happen again lol)
Next one is is the Winder Engine with the cable drum. This was made by John Donald Ltd in Glasgow and is two simple engines side by side not to be confused with a twin steam engine(too long to explain the different configurations). A simple engine has one cylinder. (again too long to explain) The winder was used to take the men down the mine to work and also bring the mullock and quartz back to the surface.
You do realise that at the speed I type it would be quicker to drive to your house, bring you here, show you all of the engines then drive you back home lol
Briefer descriptions coming so any questions just ask.

Phil

Steamwhisperer
26th Nov 2011, 07:12 AM
Horsepower rating.
This I will explain a bit about
On steam engines there are three types of horsepower (I wont bore you with the history of the word), Indicated, nominal and brake.
Brake uses blocks of wood attached to rope wrapped around the flywheel and attached to a set of scales while anchored at the other end. The flywheel is water cooled. I will have to run up to our store shed and get some photos of this as it isn't set up yet.
Nominal uses the engine cylinder dimensions and is the preferred nomenclature as it sounds better than the rest (probably a salesman thing).
Lastly is indicated, this uses a device called an indicator which is attached to the engine and records the average pressures throughout the stroke of the engine and then this is converted to horsepower. Good luck finding an indicator!!
Which brings me to a funny story.(well it is to me)
I needed to check the speed of the stamper battery and being a collecter of engineering paraphenalia I have a Jaquet Indicator (tacho). I used this to check the speed of the engine. The curator of the museum happened to walk past and asked what it was I was using. I explained and she replied that she didnt' know we had one of those. When I told her it was mine she said she would search to see if Sovereign Hill owned one. Suffice it to say they don't....but
I will preface this next bit by telling you there is a perpetual search that is constantly ongoing for a complete steam engine indicator so we can check our engines for (current) horsepower. We had asked the previous curator and got told we had nothing like that in the museum.
Turns out we have no less than eight complete steam engine indicators and it seems about six more like them. She wanted to know if they would be of any use to us. We nearly fell over.
So, until we set one up and get the indicated horsepower of each engine I wont bother as there is conflicting horsepower ratings for the engines we have and doing the maths to calculate the nominal horsepowers of each engine would do my head in
Google Steam Engine Indicator and you will see what I am talking about.

Phil

Bryan
26th Nov 2011, 08:56 AM
Phil, thanks for that. I didn't expect you to educate me from scratch, I was just after a little bit of info about your engines. How many do you have?

Edit: In case anyone else is interested, here are some weird and wonderful engines: Unusual Steam Engines. (http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/POWER/unusualsteameng/unusualsteameng.htm)

Edit: I should have said designs - a lot of them never got past drawings. On the rotary page(s) you can see the idea of the turbine trying to form but preconceptions wouldn't get out of the way.

Boringgeoff
26th Nov 2011, 10:25 AM
Hi Phil,
I'm enjoying this very much. Can you tell me,(us) was there a standard speed for the overhead shaft right across the industry? I'm thinking there must have been and you would fit the appropriate pulley to give you the speed required for each machine?
In post No 9 you say that you can vary the speed of the engine to get the optimum speed for your lathe, but if you were in a situation with a number of machines all being used at the same time could you possibly make yourself unpopular doing that?

Regards,
Geoff.

Steamwhisperer
26th Nov 2011, 03:26 PM
Phil, thanks for that. I didn't expect you to educate me from scratch, I was just after a little bit of info about your engines. How many do you have?


Apologies Bryan but I can get a little carried away.
I did a quick count of our engines (the nones that I know of anyway)
All up we have 28
9 installed and operational
2 under refurbishment
17 waiting for restoration
A simple engine has one cylinder
They are:
Phoenix tandem compound
Norman vertical simple
Buffalo inverted vertical simple
Ruston Proctor simple
Ingersol Rand air compressor
John Donald Winder
2 Welch/perrin simplex double acting feedwater pumps
2 Worthington duplex double acting feedwater pumps
5 Weirs Simplex double acting feedwater pumps
Gardiner duplex double acting feedwater pump
Walker simple with air compressor connected via tailrod
Davey Paxman school engine which can be a simple, compound or condensing with horsepower measuring equipment (from the School of Mines Ballarat) Including a Parsons turbine with 240 volt generator
Smellie engine simple
Marshall Portable
2 large forging hammers
Bellis and Morcom enclosed high speed vertical engine with generating set compound
Manchester wall pump
3 unknown engines simple

Pictures to follow

phil

RayG
26th Nov 2011, 03:34 PM
Hi Phil,


I can see why steam power is such an addictive thing, fascinating stuff, I've been googling and looking at various Steam Engine Indicators, and I think I can see why the last museum curator didn't know what they were..:)

Jaquet are an interesting company too, nothing quite as impressive as a bit of precision swiss engineering..

Good stuff, thanks for posting. :2tsup:

Regards
Ray

Steamwhisperer
26th Nov 2011, 03:40 PM
Hi Phil,
I'm enjoying this very much. Can you tell me,(us) was there a standard speed for the overhead shaft right across the industry? I'm thinking there must have been and you would fit the appropriate pulley to give you the speed required for each machine?
In post No 9 you say that you can vary the speed of the engine to get the optimum speed for your lathe, but if you were in a situation with a number of machines all being used at the same time could you possibly make yourself unpopular doing that?

Regards,
Geoff.

HI Geoff
there wasn't any speed standard as such but a lot of calculations were done before the engine was acquired or ordered. Most shops with overheads were laid out to suit available space and machine positioning with factors like machine revs and pulley sizes. Normally a central shaft would run the length of the building and paralell shafts running down each wall. With creative pulley work you can have slow machines down the left wall say and the medium speed machinery in the middle and faster machines along the right wall with the engine running at it's optimum speed driving the centre shaft. Or any combination of the above. Compounding pulleys was also favoured for the different speed ranges required. Most engines ran on the governor so it was a matter of open the throttle and make sure the governor belt didn't fall off.
Had I slowed the engine down 'back in the day,' I can assure you (had I survived the beating) i would be out of a job.
Normally lineshafting and shop layout was worked out well beforehand. If the engine was available the engine speed dictated the pulleys. If an engine was required then one governed at the appropriate speed was ordered or procured.
At times only one man and a 'lackie' ran a shop. I suppose like the many and varied shops of today.

Phil

Steamwhisperer
26th Nov 2011, 06:51 PM
Hi Phil,


I can see why steam power is such an addictive thing, fascinating stuff, I've been googling and looking at various Steam Engine Indicators, and I think I can see why the last museum curator didn't know what they were..:)

Jaquet are an interesting company too, nothing quite as impressive as a bit of precision swiss engineering..

Good stuff, thanks for posting. :2tsup:

Regards
Ray
Hi Ray,
it is a bit addictive and such amazing power from boiling water and they run smooth and silent as well.
The indicators we have even have the pencils and charts as well as full sets of springs. Normally unheard of.
Ya know, that Jaquet works perfectly even after all these years and gave me all the info I required

Bryan
26th Nov 2011, 09:31 PM
Holy steamophile Batman! I give up - Phil gets the prize for the most toys. :) (Though possibly with an unfair advantage.)

welder
26th Nov 2011, 11:45 PM
Wow those are some. Nice toys and. Steam engine all this talk is. Making. Me want. To help out. And restore my. Tractor clubs. Steam house.

Steamwhisperer
27th Nov 2011, 08:24 AM
Wow those are some. Nice toys and. Steam engine all this talk is. Making. Me want. To help out. And restore my. Tractor clubs. Steam house.

Hi welder
there is a lot of satisfaction in bringing back a lifeless lump of iron into an operating engine. Because of the normal unavailability of parts it is all about repairing worn parts or making new. Thats where the satisfaction lies. With the Walker engine just cleaning the dirt off revealed shiny steel because of the amount of oil splashed around from when it was working, kind of preserved the engine while it laid idle. You wont be disappointed even just helping out in your clubs steam house. I dont know what you have in the way of steam but be careful, a running engine, especially the size that I run are not toys and will chew you up without so much as bringing the governor into play.
Wow, on that note, if you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

Phil

Steamwhisperer
27th Nov 2011, 08:42 AM
Holy steamophile Batman! I give up - Phil gets the prize for the most toys. :) (Though possibly with an unfair advantage.)

HI Bryan,
and they're just the engines I could think of
Anyways...to the steam batcave!!

Steamwhisperer
28th Nov 2011, 09:31 PM
This Engine is the Davey Paxman experimental engine. It was used at the School of Mines in Ballarat to teach new engine drivers. This engine is the next major restoration and installation. I have included a photo of it's original position at the school (though not a very good one). At the moment it is stored in our 'Antiques Den'.

Steamwhisperer
28th Nov 2011, 09:41 PM
and here is the rest

Machtool
30th Nov 2011, 10:44 PM
Looks like Sunday 11th Dec is the best option for every one.
So keep that free. More in the morning.

Regards Phil.

Steamwhisperer
1st Dec 2011, 05:52 AM
Perfect

Steamwhisperer
2nd Dec 2011, 07:44 PM
Small post but I thought I would show you what the powers that be have given me to restore all of the above engines and associated equipment

Bryan
2nd Dec 2011, 09:53 PM
Bantams seem to be flavour of the month; they're popping up everywhere. Have you used it yet Phil? What do you think?

Steamwhisperer
2nd Dec 2011, 10:16 PM
Very happy with it Bryan. Machines beautifully. It could be at least 2 meters between centers and 600mm swing and maybe a 50mm spindle bore but "what ya gunna do". Still, it's a start

Phil

Machtool
3rd Dec 2011, 02:22 PM
Gentlemen.

A confirmation. Phil Thorn has agreed to show as around, next Sunday the 11th. This date suits the majority.

Sovereign Hill doesn’t open until 10.00 am. So that’s our start time.

If we could assemble up, out the front of the main entrance any time after 9.30 ish. Pick a point say 20 - 30 metres out, so we stay out of the crowd. If we could all aim to be there by 10.00, that would be good.

I have 11 on the list.

Greg /kwijibo99
Greg Q +
Mike G
Ken J +
His cousin.
Joe H
Peter H
Jayson W
Marko
Ray G (Is Josh coming along?)
Me.
That’s 11 plus the possibility of Josh. (Rays email bounces me). We have a pass for 12. I’ll probably confirm with you all by email as well.

See you there next weekend.

Regards Phil.

RayG
3rd Dec 2011, 02:26 PM
Hi Phil,

Josh would love to be there, but he's going to be doing contract work somewhere down on the peninsula that weekend.

I'll take some pictures for him.. :)

Regards
Ray

Stustoys
3rd Dec 2011, 02:42 PM
:kickcan:

Have a great day guys, dont forget lots of pictures for the ones that cant make it.
:club:

Thanks for the offer and your efforts anyway Phil and Phil

Stuart

Steamwhisperer
3rd Dec 2011, 03:06 PM
Should be a good day gentlemen, looking forward to it.
Stuart, lock in september for the reunion. I have a feeling that will make up for the guys that can't make it on the 11th.

Phil

PDW
4th Dec 2011, 09:16 PM
Small post but I thought I would show you what the powers that be have given me to restore all of the above engines and associated equipment

Nice machine but a leeeetle undersized for the tasks, perhaps.

How much tooling did you get? I think I have a brand new D1-3 faceplate somewhere as I got 3 with my Chipmaster. I've already given 1 away, you're welcome to the remaining spare as I'll never need it.

PDW

.RC.
4th Dec 2011, 10:13 PM
Have fun fellas.... Sounds like you will all have a good time... Wish I could attend..

Steamwhisperer
4th Dec 2011, 10:24 PM
Nice machine but a leeeetle undersized for the tasks, perhaps.

How much tooling did you get? I think I have a brand new D1-3 faceplate somewhere as I got 3 with my Chipmaster. I've already given 1 away, you're welcome to the remaining spare as I'll never need it.

PDW

Hi PDW,
lol just a bit undersized.
I didn't get any tooling although it has a quickchange tool post but the homemade tool holders don't quite fit. I have donated some of my own tooling and when required will bring a live centre etc etc etc in from home to do a (small) machining job.
We got a faceplate with the lathe but as has happened a couple of times I can only machine as time permits and if a job is already set up on the faceplate I have to remove it to set up the next job to get an engine or pump running. The remaining spare you have would be fantastic and gratefully received.

Phil