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Franklin
4th Nov 2009, 01:31 PM
after the failure of plan A

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f184/trailer-mods-106571/#post1051583

I am pretty much starting from scratch now. (can't even use the old springs or axles)

Aim is for a trailer that will hold an 8' plastic dinghy, and associated stuff.
and allow for a camper build to go over top later on.

So far I've decided, main rails and A frame will be 75 x 50 x 4 RHS.
Cross rails will be 75x 40 PFC.

Internal dimension need to be 1210 x 2500, was thinking of just using a sheet of ply for the floor (1220 x 2440). Can anyone help with what spacing the supports would need to be at to use ply, and what thickness ply?

thanks
Frank

Dave J
5th Nov 2009, 02:06 PM
Hi Frank,
I would suggest one cross the middle and one either side of that which will give you about 600mm spacing. I put 3/4 ply in my 7x4 trailer, it was seconed hand concrete form board. Maybe you could look around and ask a concreter to buy a piece, new supermarkets are the place to go.I have built a few trailers over the years and the sides usualy help keep the chassis ridged. I notice you are using 75x50x4 so you will be able to keep the sides light as it will already have a strong base.
When I build a trailer my aim is to make it as light and strong as possible for the job it's intended for. Some of the high tensile RHS they have out means you can keep the sizes down and still be as strong.
Dave

jatt
6th Nov 2009, 10:32 PM
I go along with Dave J on this and use 3/4 formply.

Source mine from the big B (price and convenience)

As far as new 3/4 formply goes the Big B normally carries 2 grades. The structural stuff is over $100 a sheet. I normally just use the non structural stuff at around $64. So far havent sourced it for cheaper.

They seem to chop and change the cheaper stuff they buy in. Recon the brown colored stuff isnt as good as black. Personally think it doesnt cut or handle the weather as well.

Think u made the right choice and scrapped plan A.

Franklin
7th Nov 2009, 12:04 AM
I examined the span and load deflection tables for plywood, and decided that 12mm with 480 span would suit my use of the trailer. I've ended up with 450 spacing, and I have recessed the ply 15mm (so that in future if I think I need thicker I can go to 17mm with just a small chamfer).
purchased axle, springs, brakes, hubs, and a sheet of 12mm structural CD ply. bought australian ply. apparently all australian ply is metric (1200x2400) whereas the imported is imperial (1220x2440).
so cut my PFC and RHS today, laid it out, levelled it, measure, adjust, repeat 5 times until square.

tack weld, check square.
then out with the angle grinder again to cut the front RHS off.
forgot to cut the holes to allow galvanising to flow :doh:
reweld

hopefully do the spring hanger mounts tomorrow (going to make up brackets to spread the load) and the A frame as well.

Franklin
8th Nov 2009, 08:55 AM
Got all the spring hangers made up (must buy a plasma cutter one day) and tacked on.
Realised my RHS is not as long as I thought it was. Will have to buy some more before I start on the A Frame.

Franklin
14th Nov 2009, 10:32 PM
The A frame pivots are now tacked on, and A Frame bent, can't weld it until I buy a hitch. Thinking of getting one of those hyland ones, not cheap though.
The regulations are a real pain with their hitch height restriction. I wanted to make the trailer sit at the same height as the landcruiser, but I have to put the hitch lower.
Plan on putting it down between the A frame members, this should just get it low enough to pass.

Franklin
16th Nov 2009, 04:01 PM
I think I've worked out how to comply with the stupid ADR restriction on ball coupling height (must be between 350 and 420mm from ground to centre of ball with a laden trailer).
If I put two hitch mounting plates (top and bottom) on the A Frame members with the hitch bolt pattern in both plates then mounting the hitch on the top plate will keep the trailer at the right height for the cruiser, and by having the bottom plate (where I can mount the hitch on the underside of it). I can demonstrate the "provision to adjust coupling height to within the regulation range".

Must put a costing up at some stage, trailer parts place is making a fortune out of me.

Franklin
19th Nov 2009, 10:45 PM
Hitch attachment done, 12mm plate top and bottom of the drawbar RHS. With hitch mounting holes in both plates.
Done one side pin to hold the drawbar frame.
Getting close to turning it up the right way. Althought should probably do the brakes, and wiring routing whilst it is upside down.

Franklin
2nd Dec 2009, 12:52 PM
Handbrake mount done,

trailer right way up now
and one side on.

was aiming for using it over Christmas, but is not looking likely.

Yonnee
6th Dec 2009, 10:23 AM
Looking good so far.

I see the axle with brakes on it, what size / what bearings did you get?

With that chassis, and those spring hangers, you either plan on doing the Oodnadatta Track, or carrying the QE2.:U

I try to help guys from making costly mistakes, that's why I asked for this trailer section to be started, but it looks like you're doing fine. Keep it up, and keep the pictures coming. Everybody loves pictures!!:2tsup:


Y.

Franklin
7th Dec 2009, 09:57 AM
Hi Yonnee,
must revisit your thread to see how your trailer going.

I'm aiming for 1250kg Agg, so have 45mm axle, slimline bearings.

Yeah, its a bit heavy duty, hoping to come in under 500kg Tare, must update my weight spreadsheet and see how I'm doing so far. A lot of the trailer is determined by what steel I have lying around, the spring hangers being one of them. The overall heavy dutiness is determined by me being fed up with trailers that bend.

I reckon its all these forums faults for even starting on this costly build, too many great people out there encouraging others to achieve dreams. Keep it up.
cheers
Frank

Yonnee
7th Dec 2009, 11:29 PM
Hi Yonnee,
must revisit your thread to see how your trailer going.

**shudder** Don't even go there. Mine's at a standstill till I get this customers one finished.


I'm aiming for 1250kg Agg, so have 45mm axle, slimline bearings.
Bit of advice here. You have the capacity in the axle, so mark your VIN tag at 1450Kg ATM. It doesn't cost you any more to register, will benefit you come re-sale time, and should the unthinkable ever happen, you're covered insurance wise for a bit more carrying capacity.


Yeah, its a bit heavy duty, hoping to come in under 500kg Tare, must update my weight spreadsheet and see how I'm doing so far. A lot of the trailer is determined by what steel I have lying around...
You've been in my shed!! More than half of what I do is from stuff laying around that I've been collecting over the years. :U


I reckon its all these forums faults for even starting on this costly build, too many great people out there encouraging others to achieve dreams. Keep it up.
cheers
Frank

:B

Thanks Frank.

Y.

Franklin
8th Dec 2009, 02:02 PM
Bit of advice here. You have the capacity in the axle, so mark your VIN tag at 1450Kg ATM.

however my springs are rated at 1140kg (9 leaf, 45mm), I'm assuming that limits me to 1250 kg ATM (assuming 10% on towball). is this the case?

Yonnee
8th Dec 2009, 05:30 PM
however my springs are rated at 1140kg (9 leaf, 45mm), I'm assuming that limits me to 1250 kg ATM (assuming 10% on towball). is this the case?

How thick are the leaves in the spring? I'm assuming they're only 6.5mm imported springs if that's the rating you've been told they're rated at. I'll check my books at home tonight to double check for you.

If that's the case, then technically you're correct with that weight, however, the VIN tag only states the ATM and the axle capacity, and you can always change the springs to 8mm thick leaves at a later date if you find yourself carrying closer to that weight.

Trust me. It'll be a lot easier to register the trailer the first time @ 1450Kg ATM, even with your current springs, than to try and up it later on. But horses for courses. If you're happy with 1250Kg, then that's cool too. :2tsup:

Franklin
8th Dec 2009, 05:48 PM
thanks for that, I may just do that then.

Yonnee
8th Dec 2009, 08:26 PM
Just out of curiosity, could you measure the spring leaf thickness? I've had a look at my info at home, and I was thinking of the slipper spring with regard to being imported springs. The lists I have show only 3 and 4 leaf imported eye to eye springs. Which therefore puts your 9 leaf springs well in excess of 1500Kg capacity.

Franklin
9th Dec 2009, 07:33 AM
leaves are 6mm thick.

other side and front gate on

started on mudguards and side boxes, using the floor from the old Plan A trailer, 2mm thick, so more kg's.

Yonnee
9th Dec 2009, 02:16 PM
Coming along nicely. :2tsup:

Franklin
15th Jan 2010, 09:03 AM
a little more progress,
folding 2mm steel with a hammer is hard work :(
and I really must update my spreadsheet of weights to see if I'm going to get anywhere near my target of 500kg's

Bloss
16th Jan 2010, 02:59 PM
I examined the span and load deflection tables for plywood, and decided that 12mm with 480 span would suit my use of the trailer. I've ended up with 450 spacing, and I have recessed the ply 15mm (so that in future if I think I need thicker I can go to 17mm with just a small chamfer).
purchased axle, springs, brakes, hubs, and a sheet of 12mm structural CD ply. bought australian ply. apparently all australian ply is metric (1200x2400) whereas the imported is imperial (1220x2440).
.

The reasons why many of us use the formply and not CD ply is that it is guaranteed waterproof glue between the plies and the two faces are laminated with a melamine layer. That means that so long as you seal the edges properly they will last at least 10 years and can last much more. Like all bases the longevity has as much to do with how good you are at keeping moisture from sitting on it for any great time - that single catcher load of grass clippings left overnight or longer can bugger either in no time!

I have used formply over steel or aluminium for more than 30 years for a few reasons: a) I find that fitting it is easier; b) it is quieter; c) it takes any load and does not deflect or bend out of shape (as metal often does) - it is forgiving of dropped weight onto it; d) it allows me to screw stop blocks etc to hold odd shapes loads in place (I seal the holes up after!); e) I can easily fit recessed tie down points/ loops; f) if the melamine layer get too broken up you can use a couple of coats paving paint (I add the non slip granules too) that will extend it another couple of years; and g) it is easier to set up removable barriers (also out of form ply) to carry mixed loads (I have a set up that allows me to carry three different loads at one time).

All that to say that if I were you I'd re-think the CD ply and look at form board - you can always find another use for the ply (BTW imported can be metric or imperial. And you can just cut down imperial). :2tsup:

Looks great though!!

Franklin
19th Jan 2010, 11:11 AM
Bloss,
thanks for input, got a bit of time till I have to make final decision on floor.

right now I need some advice on hinges for the side box.

I can get some bailey channel with seal from clark rubber (and if i get the side seal then I can decrease the number of folds I need to do) to go around the lip. But where do I find decent hinges?

I could always weld on some standard butt hinges, knock the pin out, get them galvanised, knock a stainless pin back in. But this will look a bit agricultural.

Would prefer some sort of concealed hinge arrangement, some of the kitchen cupboard ones would be suitable, but not sure how they would go with the load.
I am wanting to hinge it on the bottom edge, and I would like the hinges strong enought so that the door can be sat/stood on when opened horizontally, I dont mind a chain stay if needed.

any advice anyone.

I want to sort out this one box first prior to continuing.

Frank

Franklin
29th Jan 2010, 04:49 PM
I think I have decided to use tailgate hinges for the side doors.
Not sure if thats really what I want though. Going to stick out a bit.

pipeclay
29th Jan 2010, 04:55 PM
Is it possable to mount the Tail Gate hinges internally.

Franklin
29th Jan 2010, 04:57 PM
I think the seals become the issue if I try to go internally

Franklin
31st Jan 2010, 09:32 PM
more progress, the end is in sight for one side :).

done one lid, starting to look good. Decided to continue looking for hinges, tailgate ones are too expensive, $9.xx each, for two bent bits of steel and a pin:no:, they look too agricultural too.

Pretty pleased with my folding ability with a hammer now (check out the join on the last photo).

Going to spend this week thinking about the tailgate hinging arrangement, I think I'm going to go for the ability to hinge it top and bottom ie. able to be both a top opening tailgate and a bottom opening (tipper gate).

Franklin
12th Feb 2010, 12:39 AM
still stuck on hinges, thought I had found some nice concealed units,
but they stopped selling them years ago they tell me.

probably have to make up my own.

Very close to finishing the bodywork now,
I can see a glimmer at the end of the tunnel.

Franklin
20th Feb 2010, 11:51 PM
I ended up getting some 304 stainless hinges from Bunnings :o.
Now that I have made the hinge decision I have now got one box finished and hopefully the rest will follow.

Yonnee
21st Feb 2010, 07:42 AM
Lookin' good.
What seals are you going to use for the doors?

Y.

Franklin
22nd Feb 2010, 11:11 AM
the seal I'm using is the one top middle on this page
Pinchwelds, Bailey Channels, Glazing Channel Seals, Top Blister, Side Blister | Clark Rubber (http://www.clarkrubber.com.au/rubber-seals-and-mouldings/pinchwelds-and-bailey-channels-seals.html#Pinchweld with Side Blister)

however I didn't get it from clark rubber, their price was around $14/m, after some chasing I ended up getting it from Industrial Rubber Supplies for about $4/m, saved me some $$ which I ended up spending on the hinges, probably should have chased around for them some more, but i'm getting impatient to finish it and the wonderful wife wants the garage back too.

Franklin
18th May 2010, 06:26 PM
long time, no update.
I planning on taking it for licensing this week, or next week.
Working on the wiring at present.

have decided to get it licensed before I galvinize (sp?) it. That way if there is any issues, I can cut and weld without worry. I hope there is not any problem with trailers having to look 'respectable'.

Franklin
22nd Jun 2010, 01:36 PM
Now licensed, tare weight came in at exactly 500kg's, :U I'm really happy with that, that was my most hopeful estimate. No problem licensing it looking rusty, the inspector even entered the colour as silver. Have started pulling it apart again now to get it carted to the galvanisers.

Franklin
19th Jul 2010, 10:38 PM
photo of it back from the galvanisers

they drilled enought holes in it, have to buy a packet of sinkers now.

Guess I should put the costing spreadsheet up too now that I think all the money going out is finished. (i hope)

Franklin
19th Jul 2010, 11:16 PM
Costing
I'm putting this up to scare others off

Plan A trailer used for side metal 200
75x50x4 RHS 110
100x50x2 RHS 100
2400x1500x2 plate 110
74x40 PFC 77
25x3 Flat bar 16.5
rope rail pipe 33.68
2400x1200x12 CD Structural ply 56.91
LED lights 55
LED number plate light 30.09
Springs 106.72
Axle 123.12
Brakes/hubs 343.29
axle saddle (2) 4.972
drawbar pins (2) 23.034
Hyland hitch 346.5
hand brake lever 60.34
hand brake kit 31.72
safety chain 18.48
galvanising 830.27
seal (9m) 48.02
catches(4) 52.36
towball hi rise 18.48
red reflector (2) 2.44
orange reflector (4) 4.88
white reflector (2) 2.44
stainless bolts (48) 3.6624
stainless nuts (96) 12.3168
stainless washers (48) 1.2576
Mig wire 36.3
Mig gas (3 bottles) 264 , actually used about 2.001
bottle rental (9 months) 83.70
weighbridge 11
inspection fee 83
rego 132.2
travel permit 20.2

TOTAL 3453.883


OUCH
(how do you make tabs work???)

Franklin
3rd Aug 2010, 07:51 PM
finished photo

UglyDan
5th Aug 2010, 07:25 PM
Looks great Franklin:2tsup:

Cheers

UglyDan

BobL
29th Aug 2010, 07:03 AM
finished photo

Good to see the finished Product!

jatt
29th Aug 2010, 06:21 PM
TOTAL 3453.883

It certainly adds up fast.

I was especially interested in the cost of galvanising.

Should do the job for many years.

Franklin
3rd Sep 2010, 07:25 PM
Wasn't the cheapest quote for galvanising, but was the closest bath, so I argued them down to close to the cheapest quote.
costed weight was 342kg @ $2.20/kg (+GST)

Funny thing is I'm now trying to sell my 7x4 for less than the cost of the galvanising.

Of course the unfunny thing is that somewhere along the build I lost 20mm of width and 100mm of length and now the boat don't fit.:(( I reckon it shrank in the galvanising bath.

and I still haven't tried the camper top on it to see if it fits.

jatt
5th Sep 2010, 08:23 AM
Of course the unfunny thing is that somewhere along the build I lost 20mm of width and 100mm of length and now the boat don't fit.http://cdn.woodworkforums.com/images/smilies/standard/mad.gif I reckon it shrank in the galvanising bath.


Now that's a big d oh :doh:

Franklin
6th Sep 2010, 12:16 AM
D'oh is right, particulary as I was continually telling myself to check the boat fits, but with all the pressures of freeing the carport back up, it never happened.

I reckon it gives me the ideal opportunity to build a boat to fit the trailer now, of course I would have to buy a mig that could do aluminium (the mig I built the trailer with is borrowed, must return it one day, but the gas bottle is still full).

Somewhere along the way the conflicts between making the camper fit on top (which I still haven't tried yet), the boat inside and the floor out of a single sheet of ply made it all come unstuck.

In reality I will probably cut the excess vertical off the back (which are there for the camper to mount to) which will allow the boat to fit in width wise (as it is only the gunnels that stop it, and they are higher than the trailer sides) and make a bracket that will allow the front tailgate to be fixed at an angle to give me the additional length I need.

jatt
7th Sep 2010, 11:03 PM
Gee lost count of how many times I test fitted with the boat when building the boat camper trailer. In hindsight still would have done a couple of things different, but the boat fitted upon completion, so am content (for the moment)