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  1. #16
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
    Age
    66
    Posts
    3,721

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    To add to what Grahame said, especially about the slivers going evrywhere, be very careful if/when brushing down your clothes, those little slivers hurt. DAMHIKT.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    moonbi nsw Aus
    Age
    64
    Posts
    297

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    The advice given here is just what makes this Forum great for any project you are doing.
    I am a Carpenter. I have a mate who is a Mechanic. He showed me how to weld about 40 years ago. He was very demonstrative with his critique of my welding results. Over the years my projects have gotten bigger and my welding has got better too, mainly because, even now, I will do a run and give it close scrutiny to make sure that the weld will do the job I have for it. From day to day the results fluctuate, due to tiredness, or as has already been said, comfortable position of job, electrode and welder. If you find you have gone off coarse and the actual bead is OK, I just go over the weld making sure I cover the joint well.

    In my case I may be hard on myself making sure the welds I do penetrate enough and that the finished job looks OK for some one else who may be watching over your shoulder.....practice, practice, practice
    Just do it!

    Kind regards Rod

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    214

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    Quote.
    Just one question: my helmet is an el-cheapo from Ebay. It reacts extremely quickly when it comes to darkening, but sometimes it didn't open up again afterwards. Maybe because I was outdoors and the sun came in at an angle. But that didn't inspire a lot of confidence. Is there any risk that it lets UV rays through while blocking visible light? I don't have any reason to think so, just wondering whether a $30 helmet can be trusted.

    END quote.

    One of the YouTube guys did some investigation on this. (AvE?)

    The uv is always cut by the 'fixed' layers of the lens assembly, regardless of mode or even flat batteries. The darkening part is only for visible light. So 'safe' if not comfortable.


    Russ

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Drouin Vic
    Posts
    96

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    Lots of good advice in this thread from experienced welders. I have a couple of further comments, especially regarding vertical welds which the OP mentions having trouble with. Not all electrodes are equal in their ability to weld vertically. Some are only able to be used for vertical 'Up' or bottom-to-top welding which requires a side-to-side weaving technique that can be difficult to learn. For years I've been using the WIA 12P electrodes that are able to be used for vertical 'Down' (top-to-bottom) welding which is much simpler. Welding vertically using a technique for which the rod is not suited generally results in an ugly mess and lots of slag inclusions.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    4,621

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete O View Post
    Lots of good advice in this thread from experienced welders. I have a couple of further comments, especially regarding vertical welds which the OP mentions having trouble with. Not all electrodes are equal in their ability to weld vertically. Some are only able to be used for vertical 'Up' or bottom-to-top welding which requires a side-to-side weaving technique that can be difficult to learn. For years I've been using the WIA 12P electrodes that are able to be used for vertical 'Down' (top-to-bottom) welding which is much simpler. Welding vertically using a technique for which the rod is not suited generally results in an ugly mess and lots of slag inclusions.
    Hi Pete,
    A fair observation for sure, but we must keep in mind that the OP is virtually, new to welding.
    As with any skill is it necessary to learn the basics first.

    New welders tend to get easily discouraged from welding as a whole, when they try a more difficult technique - such as vertically up - and fail.

    Good information from you, for sure, but better ( for a learner) to store it away for a latter time and a concentrate on those elements which all go together and combined, will produce a good welding bead.
    Confidence gained from this sucess will boost the learner in to the next level of welding.

    In training, the sequence employed is horizontal beads, then flat position then horizontal beads- on a vertical face - horizontal/ vertical and then, only then, to a vertical up.

    Vertical down can be made to work but requires a fairly refined techique and needs much practice.Vertical down is only really suited for sheet metal and then only as a last choice. .

    Vertical down has little strength and should NEVER be used for any thing that has a critical or safety related application.

    I need to do something just for now but will follow up with another post to help new guys analyse and trouble shoot and improve their own newly welded beads.

    As a teaser, it is called SAVAGE. More later.

    Grahame

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    4,621

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    Ok,
    SAVAGE is a Nmenomic, in short a memory hook.
    NASA, North American Space Administration. It is that sort of thing everyone remembers.

    The same sort of Nmenmonic works for electrode ( stick ) welding and this particular one defines the welding control parameters that you can adjust to result in good clean half decent looking deposited weld bead.Other techniques will come in other posts.

    This version is a bit different in that it has to be used backwards ( start from E Electrode End and work back. The sytem is not perfection by any means but gets people in the ballpark and that is the point of the whole exercise.

    Basically it is the physics of welding.

    Below, I have laid out what each of the letters signifies and the importance.



    S speed of your electrode- as controlled by your travel movement
    A angle- the angle of Travel and the side angle
    V voltage- your arc length controls the arc voltage-important
    A amperage the amp setting that applies to the electrode in use
    G gauge - The old term for electrode diameter -now in millimeters-
    E electrode - The electrode composition must match the base metal ie the correct electrode


    To give you an idea of how it is used we shall use below as an example.
    remember the last letter E is first.


    Example

    You need to butt weld ( flat ,edge to edge) 3mm thick pieces of low carbon (MILD) steel together.

    A suitable Electrode say 6012 or 6013 will suit this set up.

    For this thickness plate the Gauge is 2.5mm diameter electrode is suitable -Check your electrode packet for an approximate guide.

    the Amperage setting The electrode rod diameter determines this setting.Find amps from the packet or latter on, judge when amps are too high or too low by plate heat and adjust as needed.Too high and you get spatter and grooves along the weld bead edges.
    Amps setting too low and the electrode sticks or won't support the arc running consistantly.

    Voltage changes from high to low voltage by virtue of the height position of your arc length. It can be difficult when you are a new person to stick welding. Arc length has a huge effect in the way your arc performs in terms of penetration. Good penetration for short arc and poor peno and slag holes with a long arc (generally speaking)

    A good rule of thumb arc length is said to be the diameter of the bare electrode core wire. The arc length in our example is then 2.5mm (remember it is termed Guage in the nmemonic) from the base metal to the unconsumed end in the that operating electrode.

    So easy to say but can be difficult to do for new guys as the electrode is constantly being consumed and is moving at the same time.
    The operator must allow for both forward movement and the electrode consumption that are happening simultaneously.

    Believe me, just a couple of millimeters up or down makes for a world of difference. Short arc is preferable in most cases, but essential in the beginning as far as new fellas go.In my humble opinion this is what the whole operation pivots on.

    Angle in the incline of travel-for this flat position in should be not real far off perpendicular certainly no more than 25-30 degrees for travel direction and 90 degrees for side angle. Also, laid over too far in the travel direction you will most certainly reduce penetration depth.

    Speed of travel required can be determined by watching the shape of the molten pool ripples in the welding arc. They are shaped in an oval shape like a rugby football. It is the fast, slow, nearly stop, and then race ahead motion to catch up that makes your bead look like bird poo.If you can maintain at a constant speed that it is nearly ideal and you will end with a constant width bead and consistant ripple pattern.We will deal with stop and start in a another post.

    I have used this system with hundred of students and most did not have trouble with it.

    I can tell you there is not much that beats the look of acheivement on a students face when they rock up with a weld bead and the flux is automatically peeling back like a scorpon tail and the bead below is like a run of solder (thats sodder for you Americans) .

    It takes practice and it takes time.There are no shortcuts, but I think the results are well worth the effort and practice.
    All that is needed is to apply this knowledge to the practice.

    In Summary
    I believe that once the new welder can grasp and apply ARC LENGTH and TRAVEL SPEED the rest will drop into place.Thats my opinion only but based upon my own experience.

    It is the aspects of running an arc to deposit a decent welding bead that are dealt with here in thi post. More techiques forthings like stop and restart willl come later.

    I am not saying its only system or the worlds best but it seems to have worked well for many aspiring welders.

    Remember if you do crappy welding the boss will get SAVAGE.

    Grahame

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