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  1. #1
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    Default Welding squares (not magnetic)

    I really like the idea of these style of squares:

    https://fireballtool.com/

    Does anyone know if there is something similar available in Australia.

    I don't like the magnetic squares that you find everywhere, but these units from Fireball tool look pretty nice. Not cheap though.

    Thanks, JD

  2. #2
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    Those ones are cast, but I have a recollection that the original ones may have been fabricated. I haven't seen anything similar locally.
    Would be a useful project and not that difficult to make.
    Laser cutting the middle bit would make it much easier, but practically could be made with whatever tools you have at hand as long as you have access to a welder.

    Steve

  3. #3
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    Agreed. It is something that could be fabricated, but if I could find some locally in Aus I would consider buying. Got a few things to get through first but its on my list.

    And a welder is the next bigger purchase, hence I'm starting to look for accessories.

    Thanks, JD

  4. #4
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    They were selling 2 sizes, in 4 options at some point.
    Cast steel, cast alloy, laser cut welded, laser cut diy welded.
    Ö..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  5. #5
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    To be perfectly honest, my opinion of those squares is that they are a "use once in the blue moon" type of acessory.

    I am not sure what the op has in mind but I am speaking of average fab use.

    For an outsider to fabricating the clamps may look impressive on a bench but I don't see them paying for themselves in a hurry.

    That is not to say, though, that the normal range of fabrication squares should not be part of the fabricator's arsenal.

    We are talking 150 x100 block square, 300mm comb square, protractor and centerfinder, perhaps a 300x 200 block square and 600mm framing square which are far more versatile. also good levels in a couple of sizes. Here are other items

    I would advocate a good flat welding bench which is a mis nomer anyway, as it is really required is an assembly bench. Welding needs to be carried out well away from where it may distort that absolute flat plane reference of your table.

    A selection of clamps of differerent types and sizes is something else I would place ahead of expensive clamp up squares.

    But thats just me.

    Grahame

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahame Collins View Post

    That is not to say, though, that the normal range of fabrication squares should not be part of the fabricator's arsenal.

    We are talking 150 x100 block square, 300mm comb square, protractor and centerfinder, perhaps a 300x 200 block square and 600mm framing square which are far more versatile. also good levels in a couple of sizes. Here are other items
    A selection of clamps of differerent types and sizes is something else I would place ahead of expensive clamp up squares.

    Can you show photos of what you would consider good, useful kit please as I am not very familiar with them as I’m just a home welder starting out.
    Ö..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  7. #7
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    Very seldom do I use a square to fabricate something, I rely on the measuring tape, measuring diagonals to get the item square.
    On a large item I'll use a spirit level, reversing it to check that it's reading right. Very seldon will you find a square that is square, I'm not talking machinists square, but from the big green shed and the likes. A framing square I had, was 2 mm out on the long side,
    admittedly it was a cheap brand, that was supplied as a replacement for a Stanley that was shortened in a guilo!!!!!
    Where I help out, a welder was putting some uprights using a square, they were visibly leaning in, after he'd spent some time trying to get it right, and they were only tacked.
    When an item is welded, it'll move out of square, how much comes down to experience, and how much welding heat is put in.
    Making a trailer frame/chassis, we use a turnbuckle to get it square and hold it after tacking, the turnbuckle is removed after everything is welded.
    Hope this helps some of the newbies,
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  8. #8
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    Below are illustrations of the different tools for finding square.
    I dont say these tools are hat you must have , but that these tools worked very well for me over half a century or so.

    Fabrication tasks have a habit of being different each time and so it is with the type and size of squaring tool that may be required.
    Sometimes 90 degrees are not needed so I have added other tools that can accomadate this need.
    Note that tools do need care and storage to avoid being damaged, particularly the 600mm rafter square.I like the aluminium tools as there little or no chance of arc spatter getting on them.

    SquareEngineersMachinist.jpg adjustable combination square.jpg Ali rafter square.jpg

    600mm rafter square.jpg Adjustable bevel square.jpg

    Cheers

    Grahame

  9. #9
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    Thanks. All those tools are for checking and marking square. The ones the op showed are for clamping the work in place whilst tacking or welding.
    Itís a bit early as babies donít care what time they wake up and I havenít reread the thread but it seems you guys donít use these sort of devices.
    So what is the holding clamping process used whilst tacking and if it pulls when welded fully how do you correct it or is it a case of cut it apart and weld?
    Ö..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  10. #10
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    I only fire my welder up about once every two weeks and most of the jobs I do a small enough to hold in a bench vice and then for tacking up I mainly use small magnetic squares and regular clamps.

    I found it doesn't really matter what you use as you can make adjustments after tacking.

    For two pieces at right angles I found this $30 corner clamp is more solid than magnetic clamps.
    Screen Shot 2018-09-08 at 6.54.55 am.png

    There are more rugged and expensive versions around like this.
    Screen Shot 2018-09-08 at 6.37.18 am.png


    I bought one of these edge clamps on a whim but I found I use it so often that I bought another
    Screen Shot 2018-09-08 at 6.46.40 am.png

    To square things large things up after tacking I use the same long clamps I use for woodworking.
    eg sash clamps
    shashclamp.jpg
    I also have a pair of pipe clamps that are 2m and a pair that are 3m long that a re great on large jobs
    Pipeclamp.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #11
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    Clamps and jigs really only act as additional hands when welding. They are great for holding work in place if it won't stay there on its own or holding components in position if location is critical.
    Clamps and even tack welds can not guarantee something will be at a specific angle after welding, this can only be achieved by sequencing the welds to compensate for any distortion.

    For example, if welding a square frame with mitred corners the best sequence to minimise distortion would be:

    Tack each outside corner (eight tack welds), check for square.
    Weld first outside corner.
    Weld diagonally opposite outside corner.
    Weld next adjacent outside corner.
    Weld last diagonally opposite outside corner, check for square.
    Weld side of first corner (run bead from inner corner to outer edge)
    Weld other side of first corner, check for square.
    Repeat for each corner as sequenced above, check for square.
    Weld inside fillet of first corner, check for square.
    Repeat for each corner as sequenced above.

    The sequencing gets more involved with more complex shapes but the concept remains the same. Wherever possible, each subsequent weld should be placed such that it will pull the work in the opposite direction to the previous weld. Even the direction a weld bead is laid down needs to be considered. The important thing is to continuously check your angles as you go and compensate as required. It's too late to check after the final weld because the fixes are much more complex at that point.
    Cheers,
    Greg

  12. #12
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    Thanks for that Greg, I couldn't have worded it better.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  13. #13
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    What an ideal opportunity to insert this little gem.
    An oldie but a goodie.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vuGlcbDwKY

    Grahame

  14. #14
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Thanks Grahame, I really liked that vid. Interesting to see Walt Disney were involved in its production.

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