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  1. #1
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    Default Machining morse tapers ( internal)

    Hi

    Does anyone have experience in machining an internal morse taper eg , if one was to make a new tailstock quill

    The books seem to ignore this process , I have only one book that describes how to do it , the spindles book in the small handbook series eg Harold Hall . In that case, the author says to use a boring bar and machine out the hole in steps, then finish with a roughing reamer , then fine reamer

    Mike

    Morse Taper Reamer Set / select MT0 to MT5 (No.0 to No.3) | eBay

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  3. #2
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    Default

    reaming if you want an unhardened one which would not have a long life if used a lot..

    Or grinding for a hardened one...
    Light red, the colour of choice for the discerning man.

  4. #3
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    Default Morse Taper machining

    Quote Originally Posted by morrisman View Post
    Hi

    Does anyone have experience in machining an internal morse taper eg , if one was to make a new tailstock quill

    The books seem to ignore this process , I have only one book that describes how to do it , the spindles book in the small handbook series eg Harold Hall . In that case, the author says to use a boring bar and machine out the hole in steps, then finish with a roughing reamer , then fine reamer

    Mike

    Morse Taper Reamer Set / select MT0 to MT5 (No.0 to No.3) | eBay
    Mike
    The internal morse taper can be machined with care using a boring bar.
    Years back I built a wood lathe which required a no 2 morse internal for both the headstock & tailstock.
    Accomplished with a boring bar & prussian blue (Bearing Blue) to check as it progressed, using a no 2 MT drill tang as a gauge. No reamers. Worked fine & 55 yrs later still using the same wood lathe.
    The reamers you showed however are very low priced & would simplify things for a final cleanup of the taper.
    Set up accurately in a lathe the boring bar will ensure concentricity & all should be good.
    THe reamer could be used for a final cut if needed.
    regards
    Bruce

  5. #4
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    For a quill you would have to be careful to get the bore aligned with the OD. I don't mean concentric. That's desirable but can be compensated for later. I mean pointing the same way. Coaxial might be the word.

  6. #5
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    Default Coaxial

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
    For a quill you would have to be careful to get the bore aligned with the OD. I don't mean concentric. That's desirable but can be compensated for later. I mean pointing the same way. Coaxial might be the word.
    Bryan
    Had a long talk with Anorak Bob today on this subject, & yes, coaxial is what we came up with as the main feature to be pursuing when machining internal tapers.
    A bit of a challenge.
    regards
    Bruce

  7. #6
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    Default

    I did a Jarno 12 external/ Morse 2 internal adapter a while back and the method I came up with was to bore and ream the internal Morse then set up a piece of steel in the chuck and cut an external Morse. This acted as a mandrel for the internal Morse so that the adapter was mounted concentric to the lathe axis. I then cut the external taper and as a result got concentric and co-axial tapers.
    For this one I would again do the internal morse then chuck a piece of sacrificial material and do a matching external taper. You then mount the quill blank on the new external taper and can centre drill the other end before turning the OD to suit.
    Note that because you are machining the external taper in-situ the material can be held in a 3 jaw. At the end of the process you should have a co-axial and concentric sleeve plus you will have a bonus external taper that could be used for tooling in the future.

    Michael

  8. #7
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    Default ok

    Thanks for the replies. I understand the co-axial requirement . I am concerned about the actual boring process of the internal taper . a long boring bar is needed, deflection may be a problem . eg the cutting tool might move under load . I guess a rigid setup is critical for success.

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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    I did a Jarno 12 external/ Morse 2 internal adapter a while back and the method I came up with was to bore and ream the internal Morse then set up a piece of steel in the chuck and cut an external Morse. This acted as a mandrel for the internal Morse so that the adapter was mounted concentric to the lathe axis. I then cut the external taper and as a result got concentric and co-axial tapers.
    For this one I would again do the internal morse then chuck a piece of sacrificial material and do a matching external taper. You then mount the quill blank on the new external taper and can centre drill the other end before turning the OD to suit.
    Note that because you are machining the external taper in-situ the material can be held in a 3 jaw. At the end of the process you should have a co-axial and concentric sleeve plus you will have a bonus external taper that could be used for tooling in the future.

    Michael
    I reckon that your technique is the only viable means of ensuring concentricity Michael on a piddly machine*. My little Hercus dividing head bore has runout because I had to rechuck the 3M bored spindle. An in-situ machined tapered arbor would have been the solution.

    BT

    * a reference to my lathe not your CVA.

  11. #10
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    Default

    Gee Bob - you almost started a war there - good thing I scrolled to the end of the page first.

    I think it's the only way to get concentricity regardless of the piddlyness or otherwise of the machine. Any attempt at dialling in a blank on a 4 jaw is going to be limited by the patience of the operator and the sensitivity of the indicator. I've noticed even when I use a finely graduated indicator on a newly polished surface I will still get a slight movement between chuck jaws as I rotate around (that is, it can be zero when the indicator is adjacent to the jaw but will move a little while I rotate to the next jaw) - elastic deformation? At least with machining a mandrel in-situ the form should be perfect. I have used the same mandrel a number of times but always do a skim/ clean up cut before use to re-true it if it has been removed from the chuck.

    Getting back to Mike's original question both steps and reaming or boring at the taper angle will get a result. With a smaller lathe you will have to take small cuts with sharp tools to reduce deflections and include several spring cuts. A MT3 is starting to get to a size where a boring bar will be a reasonable size but for a MT1 or 2 I'd suggest that steps and reaming may be the way.
    Deflection of a boring bar is related to the diameter and the bar length (both cubed from memory) so it needs to be as short as it can be and as large in diameter as it can be to minimise deflection.

    Michael

  12. #11
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    Mike I have a boring bar (that I can't find at the mo ? maybe my brother has stolen it ? ), it is made
    out of a 2 MT drill and has a bit of hss glued on the tang by a tool craft rod, and sharpened with a nice radius, this worked very well for the last cut and gave a great finish with no chatter, and I mean the last cut as there is not much clearance for swarf.

    john

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    Default pic ?

    Quote Originally Posted by shedhappens View Post
    Mike I have a boring bar (that I can't find at the mo ? maybe my brother has stolen it ? ), it is made
    out of a 2 MT drill and has a bit of hss glued on the tang by a tool craft rod, and sharpened with a nice radius, this worked very well for the last cut and gave a great finish with no chatter, and I mean the last cut as there is not much clearance for swarf.

    john
    Can you post a pic of it ?After you steal it back

  14. #13
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by morrisman View Post
    Can you post a pic of it ?After you steal it back
    hahaha, I just rang him Mike, I will try again tomorrow night, by then he may of recovered from
    his advanced state of inebriation

  15. #14
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    Default

    Mike, one thing you haven't said is what size taper you are trying to cut.

    Secondary question - does your lathe have a taper turning attachment on it?

    Michael

  16. #15
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    Default #3

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    Mike, one thing you haven't said is what size taper you are trying to cut.

    Secondary question - does your lathe have a taper turning attachment on it?

    Michael


    It is a general query , but I would kike to make a new quill fir the HArrison lathe , it has a #3 taper . I did attempt a #2 internal , but gave up half way as the boring bar was not long enough. Sadly, I dont have a taper turing attachment . Anyway, I can get away with a reamer for now on the quill ,it wont be perfect, but it will be useable . Mike PS loking at Tubalcains video has given me some inspiration

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