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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    20

    Default mig gas cylinder volume ?

    I am trying to compare the cost of disposable one litre argon gas cylinders to hireing Boc argon gas cylinders.
    The disposable cylinders cost around $28.50 each from a mate at the local mitre 10, they hold 950cc and 60 litres of gas. pressure 60 bar. There are 3 types being argon 100%, argon 80% co2 20% and co2 100%. Which is great as you can have gas for welding mild steel, stainless steel and aluminium on hand all the time.

    The boc welding gas is available in all sorts of mixtures but I will use argoshield light as an example. The fill cost is D size cylinder $57.72, E size cylinder $91.06 and G size cylinder $162.95.
    The rental cost per 12 months is D size cylinder $119.20, E size cylinder $135.64 and G size cylinder $148.90.

    My problem is that I can not find the volume of D,E or G size cylinders to do a cost comparison. Amazingly the boc gas seller does not know and the boc web site tells me nothing.

    I have just purchased a mig welder and have been trying to work out the best way to go. I would only do around 5 welding jobs each year and would realy like to know the cost diff between disposable and fill/hire cylinders.
    Can anyone help ?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    245

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by barn View Post
    I am trying to compare the cost of disposable one litre argon gas cylinders to hireing Boc argon gas cylinders.
    The disposable cylinders cost around $28.50 each from a mate at the local mitre 10, they hold 950cc and 60 litres of gas. pressure 60 bar. There are 3 types being argon 100%, argon 80% co2 20% and co2 100%. Which is great as you can have gas for welding mild steel, stainless steel and aluminium on hand all the time.

    The boc welding gas is available in all sorts of mixtures but I will use argoshield light as an example. The fill cost is D size cylinder $57.72, E size cylinder $91.06 and G size cylinder $162.95.
    The rental cost per 12 months is D size cylinder $119.20, E size cylinder $135.64 and G size cylinder $148.90.

    My problem is that I can not find the volume of D,E or G size cylinders to do a cost comparison. Amazingly the boc gas seller does not know and the boc web site tells me nothing.

    I have just purchased a mig welder and have been trying to work out the best way to go. I would only do around 5 welding jobs each year and would realy like to know the cost diff between disposable and fill/hire cylinders.
    Can anyone help ?
    D = 10l (water)=1500m3 (gas)
    E= 24l=3500m3
    G=49l=7200m3


    They are all filled to @ 16000Kpa.

    Personally the disposable bottle are nothing more than a PITA. I would prefer to pay bottle rental but simply put the D is 10 times large but hodl significantly more gas due t the far higher pressures. If my math is right your disposable is .0095m3 in actual gas capacity.
    Bottle rental isn't that bad IMHO. Of course if you have oxy etc then it can add up.
    Also Argoshield Light is fine for stainless and mild.
    Cheers

    Craig
    Brisbane

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Japan。
    Age
    43
    Posts
    212

    Default

    I didn't have to do any math a few years ago when I was using the disposable gas bottles myself.

    After 3 I went to BOC.

    Those three little bottles went by within a few short hours, and the bigger bottle (D size I guess) ended up lasting about 2 years, and a heck of a lot more work than the little ones did.

    The small ones are handy for the odd job where your larger bottle isn't suitable, but that's about it really.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    40
    Posts
    83

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Schtoo View Post
    I didn't have to do any math a few years ago when I was using the disposable gas bottles myself.

    After 3 I went to BOC.

    Those three little bottles went by within a few short hours, and the bigger bottle (D size I guess) ended up lasting about 2 years, and a heck of a lot more work than the little ones did.

    The small ones are handy for the odd job where your larger bottle isn't suitable, but that's about it really.
    Exactly my experience Schtoo!

    Forget those disposable bottles completely. Hire a BOC or Supagas bottle. Mine lasts around 2 years.

    I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
    Albert Einstein

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Excellent thankyou.
    My rough sums work out to around 2.5 times the cost using disposable bottles. Thats one D size cylinder each 2 years versus 25 - 30 disposable.

    So what size do you hire ? maybe I could start with a small D size of argoshield light and a few argon 100% disposable cylinders for aluminium.

    Are you guys happy with the argoshield light ? most of the welding that I do is 2 or 3 mm thick steel so according to the specks argo shield light is the one to go for.
    I will also try to find a local Supagas or other ? supplier and compare prices.

    So does anyone know what would happen if I tried to use argo shield light to weld aluminium ?

    Nice trolley Matrix.

    Thanks for the help all.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    40
    Posts
    83

    Default

    yep, Argoshield light is perfect for what you want to do. The bottle you see in my pic is the smallest they have in Victoria.
    I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
    Albert Einstein

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Vic
    Posts
    5,574

    Default

    Hey Martrix, what size is yours, going by the picture it looks like an E to me, which is the medium size. What do you mean by

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    40
    Posts
    83

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by djstimber View Post
    Hey Martrix, what size is yours, going by the picture it looks like an E to me, which is the medium size. What do you mean by
    Hey DJ, not sure of the letter and its too dark and cold to go check ! In the pic it goes all the way to the bottom of the trolley. Probably about 1200mm high.

    by that I mean it would be nice to have the bottle half that size as it would be a little cheaper and more mobile. Guess it doesn't matter too much as the gas doesn't really go off and it will last longer.
    I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
    Albert Einstein

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    636

    Default

    if you decide to go for refillable cylinders shop around BOC are not the only supplier , supergas is better priced

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Vic
    Posts
    5,574

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by martrix View Post
    In the pic it goes all the way to the bottom of the trolley. Probably about 1200mm high.
    In that case you have an E size which is the medium size. You can get a D size one, which is roughly 500 or 600mm high and normally has a carry handle as well.

    I've got 4 bottles here, 1 E argoshield for the Mig, 2 D oxy/acet and 1 D pure Argon for the Tig

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    245

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by barn View Post
    Excellent thankyou.
    My rough sums work out to around 2.5 times the cost using disposable bottles. Thats one D size cylinder each 2 years versus 25 - 30 disposable.

    So what size do you hire ? maybe I could start with a small D size of argoshield light and a few argon 100% disposable cylinders for aluminium.

    Are you guys happy with the argoshield light ? most of the welding that I do is 2 or 3 mm thick steel so according to the specks argo shield light is the one to go for.
    I will also try to find a local Supagas or other ? supplier and compare prices.

    So does anyone know what would happen if I tried to use argo shield light to weld aluminium ?

    Nice trolley Matrix.

    Thanks for the help all.
    I haven't checked my pricing lately but the prices you quoted is higher than the last time I checked my BOC online account pricing.....yeah 1 bottle every 6 months and I have an online account!!!!
    Use Argolight on ally......I would suggest porosity in the weld and other issues of contamination in the weld meaning you might as well have screwed it together
    Once you have the BOC acc you can just grab a bottle of whatever for a month rent....you don't have to sign up for 12 months on each bottle. You can pay 2 yearly, yearly or monthly from memory.
    So simply you have a E (best value vs portability IMHO) of Argolight and then save up your ally welding and then hire a bottle for a month and then return the bottle once you have finished...or if you welder takes disposable, you can use the disposables for the 5 sec jobs in between.
    Cheers

    Craig
    Brisbane

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Do you find that the E size cylinder is too heavy as I need to transport the welder and cylinder to work on site.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Vic
    Posts
    5,574

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by barn View Post
    Do you find that the E size cylinder is too heavy as I need to transport the welder and cylinder to work on site.
    Not really, I just sling over the shoulder and walk on

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    40
    Posts
    83

    Default

    Gday DJ, I was told by BOC that the bottle I have is the smallest they rent out for Argoshield light in Victoria. You can get them in NSW but not in Vic.
    I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
    Albert Einstein

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Grafton, N.S.W.
    Age
    58
    Posts
    185

    Default

    G'day All.
    here in Grafton, We have BOC and Liquide Aire.
    I use Liquide Aire Migshield at home in a "E" size.
    At work, we use BOC argoshield light.

    I find the Migshield seems to give better results.
    I also have "E" size BOC Argon for Ali.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor
    Grafton

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