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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    574

    Default CBN Wheel on Tool & Cutter Grinder

    I recently completed a Quorn tool and cutter grinder and gave it a first trial with one of 2 white Alox used grinding wheels that I had on hand. One is noticeably out of balance it always stops in the same position when spun over by hand, I doubt that I'll even try it under power unless I can make an arbour that can be balanced, the second wheel was dressed and actually came up ok it was this wheel I used for the initial trial - however I have noticed that with some use it takes on a dark glaze if it is used to remove a lot of metal (shaping a HSS lathe tool). This glaze is probably microscopic bits of steel embedded in the grit and can be removed by dressing, the wheel is probably a hard grade and possibly better suited to just touching up a cutting edge.

    I had a CBN wheel on order and it arrived today https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/150-Grit...frcectupt=true.

    It is quite a bit heavier than the Alox wheel and appears to be made from steel where I imagined it would be made from Al. The seller describes it as Diamond-CBN, I wonder if they really know as there is nothing on the box to indicate if it is diamond or CBN or a hybrid of the two, wanting to use it for HSS I believe I need CBN and not diamond. I googled the part number on the box and found that 11C9 denotes the shape of the wheel and the other numbers denote the diam, depth, hole size etc. Once mounted I tried it on a 10mm milling cutter that had been badly hand sharpened by me a while back and was now next to useless - it all went smoothly, hardly any sparks and no grit, there was though a fine silvery dust which had most likely has come from the cutter being sharpened - I haven't tried the cutter but it does look like it will be fine. The great thing about this is that it does not need to be dressed.

    Probably a lot of ebay sellers do not really know the difference between diamond and CBN, why you would use one over the other and have no hesitation in mixing up the names so I'll just have to wait and see if my wheel turns out to be the right one
    20190503_185637.jpg20190503_185704.jpg20190503_185752.jpg20190503_185831.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,656

    Default

    I have never seen a diamond or CBN that colour Diamond is usually a dark chocolate brown while CBN is more of a yellow ochre

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    574

    Default

    I spent some time last night internet searching and came across the wheel manufacturers web site - I can't be certain but it looks as though the wheel I have is a hybrid electroplated diamond/CBN wheel that can be used on both carbide and HSS. General opinion on the internet seems to be that if HSS is ground on a diamond wheel, the wheel will eventually 'load up' - I take this as meaning that particles of HSS will embed themselves in the wheel and eventually stop the wheel from cutting in a similar manner to my experience with the Alox wheel I have, the difference being I believe is that a diamond wheel is not that easy to dress, I'm guessing that a resin bonded wheel can be dressed but an electroplated wheel possibly can't be.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,656

    Default

    Yep that is correct Diamond will load up the wheel flood coolant will help decrease that, yes electroplated wheels just have a very thin coating attempting to dress one would most likely just remove the
    coating, resin bonded wheels can be dressed and it is surprisingly simple just use a Aluminium Oxide dressing stick.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    near Rockhampton
    Posts
    6,216

    Default

    You can usually tell Diamond from CBN in the price.

    Diamond is cheap.

    CBN is expensive.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Salisbury, South Australia
    Age
    37
    Posts
    29

    Default

    It also depends on the method that the CBN is attached with. I have a friend that can access all things CBN, there is electroplating which is the cheapest and thinnest coating, then resin bond which had CBN suspended in resin cost effective but not long lasting and then there is a metal bond process where the CBN is bonded within a bronze and this stuff lasts almost a lifetime for a home gamer, but it is pricey as!

    as an example when hand sanding my blades I go through god knows how much wet and dry, then I tried diamond plates good result a lot faster but they wore out very quickly.

    my mate from minnow creek knife and tool has now brought a metal bonded CBN plate to market as a fair decent price point, so in having 150g 320g and 400g I have completely removed the need for those grade papers and cut my process time down by 3/4.

    the point im trying to make very long-windily is you definitely get what you pay for with diamond and CBN and some times its worth spending a little more now and never having to replace the tool, additional to this im told that you can refresh a metal bonded CBN product with a light lapping in ferric chloride.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,942

    Default

    In the latest MEW, issue 278, there's an article on using a CBN wheel.
    It uses a wheel from an EMG12 and EMG20 080-060-10202 EMG grinding wheel.jpg.
    Utilizing the various angles on the stone, to sharpen milling cutters on a Quorn T&C grinder.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    574

    Default

    My hybrid cbn/diamond wheel was less than $30 so it must be electroplated - it certainly does have an electroplated look to it I'll have to wait and see what sort of life it has, although in a tool and cutter grinder I would think it would last a decent lenght of time as it would do no heavy grinding. I was aware of the different types of cbn and diamond wheels but did not connect the dots as far as price was concerned.

    I have a copy of the MEW article and have located a source for the wheels used but they are pricey I think a bit under $200 - if I start doing a lot of sharpening then I might get one.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,942

    Default

    What I liked about that particular design, was the various angles on the wheel to allow the sharpening of milling cutter and not have to dress the wheel.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    574

    Default

    I must agree with you the EMG cbn wheel looks perfect for the job no need to swap out wheels if the ends need gashing, one of them is my list of wants. I had over a dozen dull cutters ranging in size from 1/4" to 3/4" and last week I spent an hour or so and managed to get them all sharpened on the end - only 3 needed gashing between the teeth, the Dremel worked fine for this but does not look as nice as a machine ground gash.

    I'm machining aluminium at the moment and I've noticed that the old dull cutters tended to gall up on the tips of the teeth and I needed to give them a squirt of WD every now and again, my sharpened cutters however do not gall up at all, I started out ready with the can of WD but have found I don't need it all.

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