Thread: Unsafe metal procedures you have seen online.

Originally Posted by 4me

Easy to point the finger when it comes to safety, we all make mistakes we all have some bad habits.

You are lucky to have only had one significant accident.

One of the most inconvenient and painful ones I've had was when a length of 50 mm x 1200 mm long galv water pipe rolled off my bench onto my left big toe while wearing thongs. Thing was I was not actually planning on working for any length of time in the shed - just filling in time before I had to go to work. I had carried that bit of pipe from the side of the house to shed and placed it onto teh bench to mark it out and cut it up for a project - 15 minutes tops. Anyway the toe blew up like a balloon so I had to go to my white collar job/work wearing sandals and 5 hours later I had to be on a Perth to Sydney flight for work and it all turned into one of the most excruciating flights and weeks in my life. Now I usually wear steel caps when I have anything to do with that sort of material.

Some 40 years ago I docked 5mm off my left ring finger while using a small buzzer and trying to talk (more like yell) to my brother at the same time. Losing that much finger was not a big deal long term but while I was getting emergency treatment at the hospital I fainted and my head hit the floor and I damaged a major nerve on the side of my face and lost most of the feeling sensation on that side of my face. It took years for it to start healing and still have some remnant loss and have to be careful if I cut that side of my face. I'm now a big fan of push sticks for buzzers, table saws and routers.

I've managed to set myself on fire a few times with grinders and flap sanders and now I wear a leather welding apron - doesn't protect the "under the armpit" fire though. A few burns from welding with short gloves - now wear along ones and make sure the overall legs are over the Blunnies so the hot spatter doesn't drop in the gap between sock and boot. Man does that hurt. I also wear spats for long jobs.

Spent a lot of time around big chainsaws - not much mercy with those things. Chain came off once an caught me in the privates - biggest purple bruise I ever had, only bettered by when SWMBO came off her horse and broke 4 ribs.

Anyway just because we may get careless from time to time, and we all make mistakes, is not an excuse and neither does it make it right.
If we all followed safe practices to a greater extent than we do now we'd have fewer injuries and less lost time, and a lot more metal workers still alive or with limbs and body parts intact so they could continue working.

I used to be somewhat cavalier with chainsaws - not stupid, but never used the chain brake and would typically drop start it.

Then one day, after a long day of cutting down conifers, pretty exhausted and just wandering around trimming off limbs, I accidentally let the bar brush my leg after a cut - my finger was off the trigger, it was just the momentum in the engine and chain, and it cut a neat 3" long gash in my jeans, but amazingly, not a mark on my thigh.

It didn't take much imagination to realise just how awful an injury I'd just avoided. (I did a welding course at TAFE with a Kiwi who'd taken a kickback to the face, and neck, and chest... Clearly lived to explain the scars, but showed that once a chainsaw is into flesh, it likes to take hold and dig in...)

From that moment on, I do everything by the book - start with brake on and saw on ground or between legs. Brake off to cut, brake on after cut. It adds virtually no time in using the machine, and hopefully next time when I'm tired or distracted, those routine, habitual safety measures might just save me.

Originally Posted by RustyArc

. . . . .It didn't take much imagination to realise just how awful an injury I'd just avoided. (I did a welding course at TAFE with a Kiwi who'd taken a kickback to the face, and neck, and chest... Clearly lived to explain the scars, but showed that once a chainsaw is into flesh, it likes to take hold and dig in...)

Yeah they don't really cut - instead they tear out, chunks.

Prior to the mandatory use of chaps in the workplace in the 1990's the average cost of a workplace chainsaw injury including lost work time was ~$60k. Now despite inflation there are far fewer accidents and the costs are less than half that. DIY operators suffer a high number of hand injuries as they think they can hold the saw with one hand and what they are cutting with another.

I did a chainsaw safety course many years ago because the job I was in at the time required me to use one every so often. Many years later I bought one for private use, chopping up firewood,but I must admit the lessons learnt in that course stayed with me, chainsaws are one tool I'm always careful with, they can cause horrific injuries.

Originally Posted by 4me

Easy to point the finger when it comes to safety, we all make mistakes we all have some bad habits. If we followed safe practice to the letter we'd never get anything done.

I accept and understand that we all have done it.I disagree with never getting anything done as most positive safety behaviors don't take up much extra time if you are organised about it . It is simple job planning in many cases.

However the point is, that we, in our work shops, have not used u tube to present a "how to" with a glaring safety error in it.
The difference is that we make our safety mistakes largely in private not in front of thousands of viewers.

People watch the video to learn the skill. Sure! some presenters offer a disclaimer,but it is worthless if they say to wear your safety equipment and then fail to do so in the demo.

The presenters have an unspoken obligation to those viewers new to the craft who may not know any better until disaster strikes.
As Karl pointed out I that the lawyers have not been involved. I suppose it must come when the legal jackals realise there is money in it.

Grahame

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

People new to the craft see this and because the subject matter is so good, accept the bad practice with out further thought.

Grahame

I think that you have hit the nail squarely on the head there !

Hi Guys,

One of the earlier posts reminds me of an incident that took place a very long time ago. I used to go and watch speedway racing and was involved in helping out. One day a rider had to be stretchered off the track. The chain on the bike had parted company with itself and proceeded to become embedded a couple of inches into the buttocks of the rider ! Serious I know, but the crew had a good laugh at his expense.

No chain guards were used in those days, all open sprockets, I've seen a finger or two nipped by them as well. usually because of spinning the wheel with one hand and wiping with a cloth in the other.

Originally Posted by 4me

I did a chainsaw safety course many years ago because the job I was in at the time required me to use one every so often.

Although I've been around chainsaws most of my life, about 12 years ago when I started buying saws >100cc and with 60" bars SWMBO got very nervous so I went and did a one day chainsaw operators short course run by a private provider that was a component of a full arborist related TAFE course. It was a pretty basic course and I could have taught the course myself but it gave me a ticket I could use to show anyone I was not just some bunny with a chainsaw. The 30 minute exam was interesting with the instructor dropping hints when some of us got stuck on some of the harder/poorly worded questions. I subsequently did some milling work for a tree lopper and he was pleased to know I had done a course.

Grahame has hit on an important point about planning. For me this meant setting up a specific place in my shed for PPE, spare PPE on hand in case I misplace it, and having multiple sets means I can distribute it around my shed so's I don't have to walk far to access it. My shed is full to dollys wax and the roof is quite low which is a right PITA in terms of what I can fit into my shed but being low means I can hang and easily access all manner of stuff from it.

I have 4 sets of muff, with at least one set of muffs and a full face shield hanging up at each end of the shed. Hot works PPE hangs next to my welding booth. General work gloves, face dust masks, and safety glasses hang over a bench in the middle of the shed. It only takes a few seconds to put it on when needed.

Originally Posted by Commander_Keen

Wasn't he a shill for some abrasives company at one stage?
Oh, the irony.

He's promoted, (at a price no doubt), just about every other product you could think of, so I'd be more surprised if he hadn't had a go at abrasives.
Apparently his real name is Lanse. I found references to him on another American welding forum frequented by some very knowledgable characters. They treated him with the greatest disdain as he was well known for picking their brains and then posting the same information on his own youtube channel. He was also well known for the rants and dummy spits on their forum.

I have arc welded while kneeling on wet grass. All good until I had to insert another electrode. Boy that was a rude shock!


Also, welding without gloves and then, without thinking, picking up the freshly welded part with bare hands. Dumbarse!


Simon

Originally Posted by simonl

Also, welding without gloves and then, without thinking, picking up the freshly welded part with bare hands. Dumbarse!

You are not the first to do so and will not be the last.

A certain person who won't be named did it the other day. Not only did he have gloves but removed the said gloves-so they would not get damp from quenching.
It pays not to mistake the just welded end from the merely warm-I can handle that -end.

Grahame

Thanks for the thread idea, Grahame. Good reviews of these sorts of videos are needed, but impossible at the same time.
My favorite metal genre is forging (as yooz may know). And having gone thru the trade, at tech under tradies and at 3 different workshops, there are many subtle safety tips to be had. Particularly for power hammer and forging press work.
A couple of years ago I collated what I could find on the 'net, for a power hammer class our Blacksmith Association held. I'll attach it somewhere on the MWforum, but where? 'Safety' or 'Smithy'?

Basically power hammers shouldn't be used in a cavalier, slap-dash way- or they can break you. One of my favourites is tongs and their use. The more whack you are going to give the job, the better fitting the tongs must be, the best feel 'as one' with the job.
And not critical to safety, so much as comfortable 'in control' posture, is the rank amateurs forging under a (power) hammer 'crossed over'. Often see in videos, driving the hammer (foot on treadle) with one side of body and twisting the torso to have the opposite hand closest to the job...

cheers,
AndrewOC

I lost partial vision in my left eye some 49years ago due to myself sticking a screwdriver in it. Would saftey glasses have prevented it?...yes they would have, but it was a an accident that no one could have predicted might occur..but it did...

It wasnt until my last eye op about 20 years ago that I realised how stupid I had been during that time until the specialist the importance to me "you and I need to look after your right eye as your left is going to fail".

I had hardly ever used saftey glasses unless it was sort of mandatory but thats when I started using them...It took some training to remember to say "stop" to myself at every task to make me review the situation as to whether or not I needed them...during those first 30 or so years after i lost the sight of left eye I have been lucky I guess as one more mistake I could have be totally blind now as my left has completely failed.

makes me wheezy when I see unsafe practices on the tube..like wearing gloves and author stating "yes its unsafe so viewers you should be doing this, but nothing has ever happened to me" ????

yet

Originally Posted by eskimo

.It took some training to remember to say "stop" to myself at every task to make me review the situation

Eskimo,
You hit the nail squarely on the head.
Your above quote is the key to every work situation ,that we encounter.
About a week back I had to do some welding- basically just two small tacks. Safety training and experience has taught me to scan my immediate area for combustibles.

Luckily for me,I did as I normally do and checked the area surrounding my bench. the mower had been used and empty fuel can was left on the adjacent BBQ table.Had I had not bothered to check, I may not have noticed that the light can had been blown of the BBQ table by the wind.
It was resting on its side under my welding table and its lid was dislodged.

Naturally the hazard was removed as I am quite adverse to petrol explosions while I am welding.

Years ago,I was asked to braze weld a motor cycle fuel tank and did not do it until the tank was steam cleaned and filled to the neck with water and straddled and tied over a pipe fence. Despite those precautions I managed to induce an small explosion sufficient to reverse the manufactured inlet ted recess or dents for the riders knees. I was not injured ,but shaken up a bit.

The review of immediate work to be performed can apply to virtually anything you intend to work on.

Wearing gloves on drill presses,grinders and other rotating machinery and we are encouraged by the monkey see,monkey do presenters who do things like wear light gloves to protect their hands from sparks.

At the same time they ignore the fact that an unguarded grinder blade can slice right through their pathetic hand protection in a micro second because they are holding the A/G one handed as they have removed the handle.

Dickheads who wear gloves on a bench or pedestal grinder press my buttons. Once you are involved in emergency disassembly of a 5hp pedestal grinder to help some who has his gloved hand and fingers caught between the wheel and grinder tool plate you never forget. Once the rotating machinery grabs the glove it does not let go,it just grips tighter and your hand and fingers can't be removed.

Grahame

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

Dickheads who wear gloves on a bench or pedestal grinder press my buttons.

Really? I couldn’t care less what other people do with their own digits. What is it about other people’s working methods that gets you so wound up?

Relax. Life’s too short.