Thread: H & F BM30 mill

The head is making a noise when using larger endmills for side milling or 50mm face mill when entering piece...one full face is cutting it seems to quieten and then return when leaving.
Its definitely a bearing/spindle noise related issue, I am guessing a stuffed bearing but which one...noise seems to come from very top but ???

Anyone pulled one apart?..where does one start????

I'd bet you it's the same noise most mills with a splined quill make with any interrupted cut (like a facemill half on a part) it's the flanks of the spline and the splined bush kind of slapping together due to a loose or worn fit?

I chased bearings in a Bridgeport for ages until I just replaced the splined bush and it got quite but never went away.

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I agree it's probably the splines, otherwise it would do it all the time.
I did do a right up years ago for a fix with this for a HM52. I made up a tight fitting Delrin bush, this stopped it and it hasn't came back.

Originally Posted by Dave J

I agree it's probably the splines, otherwise it would do it all the time.
I did do a right up years ago for a fix with this for a HM52. I made up a tight fitting Delrin bush, this stopped it and it hasn't came back.

yeah did that too to my HM52 clone Dave, but this is supposed to be better quality????lol

Originally Posted by eskimo

yeah did that too to my HM52 clone Dave, but this is supposed to be better quality????lol

When I was down there years ago they all had there bad points if you looked over them. It's machinery House, where money comes before quality.

Would any like to guess on how item 133 ( Nose-Piece as its called in parts list) comes out/fastened etc. It does have pin holes for I suspect a pin spanner in the sides 180degress apart. Looking at it friday I noticed it seemed loose ..I could move it (circular wise) by about 5-6mm. Stuck a 1/4 brass drift in one hole and hit it with hammer to the right...seemed to get looser..so went left and seemed to get tighter...would this part screw in and would it be right hand or land hand?

Mill Instruction Manual 40.pdf

Looks like there is a grub screw (item 139) in there. On my mill there is a screwed piece like that but 'locked' with a grub screw. You may find that if you loosen that off, it unscrews more easily. I have pin spanners. Do you need to borrow one?

Michael

Originally Posted by Michael G

Looks like there is a grub screw (item 139) in there. On my mill there is a screwed piece like that but 'locked' with a grub screw. You may find that if you loosen that off, it unscrews more easily. I have pin spanners. Do you need to borrow one?

Michael

Just got back from fishing.

that grub screw is in the spindle ...did have a through look at the pin holes and they definitely do not have grubscrews in them...

DaveJ is spot on - my BM60V does it, if you put the head in neutral and slowly turn the spindle in a forward & back motion whilst rotating the spindle you'll locate the spot where it does it the most. It doesn't effect the quality of the cut on my mill so I put up with the occasional rattle

The noise I was experiencing was only in high speed and I became annoyed with it.

As same of you are aware, on Bridgeports and their clones there is a procedure one must follow when changing from high to low speed and back again otherwise you run the risk of hearing an awful sound...the sound of teeth not meshing....have I damaged something up there? as I had done this on a few occasions

I got cranky with the noise and pulled the top off.

Pulled the top bull and pinion gearbox apart. dismantled and began cleaning and inspecting. Pinion and bull gears look okay...as do clutch faces

Removed bearings for inspection and at first I thought the pinion gear bearings where a bit sloppy, but certainly not noisy...checked and realised they are C3...so tad sloppier than the norm

Bull gear bearings seemed okay

Top clutch bearings...all seemed good...so what was the noise? no idea at this stage.

waited till internal bearing arrived from ebay seller and attempted to remove bottom pinion gear bearing that remained in gearbox....bugger fully seated to bottom of blind pocket, and puller mandrel could not get under race... now...leave it in there and reuse or search the internet on how to remove...thank god for the internet and H&W Machinery Repairs videos...drill two small holes in back of case and pin punch out....it worked.
20200507_150100.jpg
okay while I am here on google I will search further for any clues as to what noise is err was and whether or not I will be able to get rid of it. Eventually came across a site which referred to the "'the Bridgeport clack" ...what is this eh?

further googling pointed to a possible cause relating to the hi/lo top clutch adjuster. When this lever is returned to front after using low low speed arrangement the top clutch may not fully lower onto bottom clutch face....mmm ?....this could be possible!! reason crud...or not lubing to the top as required...guilty your honor..... And is this the BP clack?

Checked H&W for more clues and noted that when re-assembling the top one needs to leave head bolts at finger tight and run motor at medium speed to self align spline and clutch faces and or move head around till noise abates etc.

Start fitting it all back together...okay what grease for box...H&W use Mobilux lithium EP1...okay whats that in Aus...what... cant get EP1 in a tube in Aus...did find 44 gallon drum of it tho...okay now what do I use

An English rebuilder of Bridgeports says they just use Moly CV joint grease as they cant get EP1 greases either.

Rang Shell and tech support said that EP1 greases are for centralised lube systems....as its a box you dont need that anyways so it was recommended to just use Gadus EP2.
Filled box and finished putting back together and rewired.

Switched it on and tightened down head bolts...what doya know...no noise. So what was it?

I am thinking it was the clutches not fully engaging as the noise was certainly not present in low speed...see my half guilty plea above...i did oil it sometimes

or had the top head moved for some reason? and this caused spline rattles and or clutch face misalignment and resulting noise?...or is this the BP clack?

oh well till... next timetime

There's a big chance I'm not understanding something here so just ignore me if this is all irrelevant.

You talk about clutch, do you mean the castellated section on top of the bull gear as shown inside the red circle here?
20161207_165854.jpg

And the using the clutch, the pulley is pushed down into this, with the equal but opposite shape on the pulley?

20161107_194652.jpg

The mechanical fit between these two, drive and driven parts, is causing a rattle?

Caskwarrior told me that is a common cause of noise some time ago, which saved me doing what you did (thanks CW)

On my BP copy, I have a longer top on the draw bar which means you can change drawbar with the quill down.
20161104_183231.jpg
It also means its easy for me to reach up and hold the drawbar with my fingers, to put a bit of drag on it. That stops the rattle. I read somewhere that the old fix was to make a fixture to hold a cork against the drawbar. The noise annoys me too, but it seems to be a bit like chatter and is freq/load dependent, so its not always there. When it happens I just put a bit of drag on the drawbar. Maybe its something you can try when it comes back, just to see if thats what it is.

Originally Posted by sossity

There's a big chance I'm not understanding something here so just ignore me if this is all irrelevant.

You talk about clutch, do you mean the castellated section on top of the bull gear as shown inside the red circle here?
20161207_165854.jpg

And the using the clutch, the pulley is pushed down into this, with the equal but opposite shape on the pulley?

20161107_194652.jpg

The mechanical fit between these two, drive and driven parts, is causing a rattle?

Caskwarrior told me that is a common cause of noise some time ago, which saved me doing what you did (thanks CW)

On my BP copy, I have a longer top on the draw bar which means you can change drawbar with the quill down.
20161104_183231.jpg
It also means its easy for me to reach up and hold the drawbar with my fingers, to put a bit of drag on it. That stops the rattle. I read somewhere that the old fix was to make a fixture to hold a cork against the drawbar. The noise annoys me too, but it seems to be a bit like chatter and is freq/load dependent, so its not always there. When it happens I just put a bit of drag on the drawbar. Maybe its something you can try when it comes back, just to see if thats what it is.

Yes, the clutch (castellated gears) is as you have shown.

jhead-huge.jpg

the following link is what drew my attention to it after googling "Bridgeport clack"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vijilhYx9oI

I recall on a few occasions when moving the spindle clutch lever (85, next to brake) to front position after being in LO, there was little or no force from about halfway towards to front...I now think think the spindle pulley bearing sleeve (13) was in fact sticking thus not allowing the dog clutch to fully engage....and hence why I say I am guilty.... probably the result of me not adequately oiling it?

the next link talks about not tightening the top down to allow all to self align ....you will need to skip to 17:45 unless you want to watch the rebuild of the vari-speed top ...they have'nt made a video for reassembly of step pulley top as yet. But the principle is the same ...it allows to splines and I also presume the clutch faces to centrally align ...the head does make some noise if you push the head form side to side when running and when loosened off...just bump it around till you get it quiet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwroB3CuYoY

Thanks Eskimo,
I always wondered if it was the same thing.

I'd seen that first link before but that wasn't my problem. Its definitely the play between those castellated sections, and thats when they are properly meshed. It makes no difference to the finish as someone said, but its a it annoying.

Dave J, you mentioned a delrin bush. Was your bush to address the same problem between those castellated setions? I searched but couldn't find anything.

The Kondia had a reputation of being a bit heavier build than a BP, from what I read. On that head rebuild link (before 17:45) , I can't see any alignment pins between the two cases. The Kondia has three 10mm pins that need to align between the two faces, so there is no chance of miss-aligmnent. Its actually quite tricky to fit and has to be held parallel as you tighten or they will jam, but its probably been a worthwhile improvement.

No my bush was in the top of my pulley to quiten down the spindle mesh as it was a bit sloppy, it's still working great all these years on.
You would have to search HM52 quill to see it. Not sure whether the Bridgeport type machines are similar up top.

Hey Fellas,

Great discussion,

I've wasted countless hours chasing a noise in my Chevalier step pulley mill which I suspected was worn splines. Anyway I read online somewhere (after wasting time taking the head completely apart and replacing bearings and re-lubing) that you should put some oil on the drawbar before using the machine every day... Well I put about 10mls of chainsaw bar oil around where the drawbar enters the top bearing and well it worked and the machine is now very quite, and I do this every time before I use it now and it's sweet

I am not saying this is the answer to everyone's problems, just might be helpful to someone out there?