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  1. #1
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    Default Emco Maximat Mentor 10

    As a Newbee Im not sure if this is the right area to post this...so please let me know if there is a more appropriate spot.
    I picked up my first lathe yesterday and as you can see it is pretty grubby.
    IMG_0458_800x600.jpgIMG_0459_800x600.jpgIMG_0460_800x600.jpgIMG_0461_800x600.jpgIMG_0462_800x600.jpg
    The rubber edge seal around the top of the cabinet is just sticky gunge
    IMG_0463_800x600.jpg
    The switch box will need a good clean. As this machine is a 3Ph 2 speed Dahlander wound motor I am yet to work out a solution to get it running on 240V with VFD. May need to totally rehash the switch box with guidance from profesional people
    IMG_0464_800x600.jpg
    The box of goodies that came with it.
    IMG_0457_800x600.jpg
    I intend to start from the ground up on this old girl.... and no doubt will need advise on various aspects of the build.
    Thanks
    Gaza

  2. #2
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    Looks good, I believe Emco gear is well made, on projects like this the part that is not so pleasant is the cleaning of all the parts, once you get past that the enjoyable part starts - putting all of the clean parts back together and watching it come together- it should serve you well.

    On the Dahlander motor, if it a 415V motor then it generally is not possible to rewire them to operate on 240V due to the way the windings are connected - there is connection diagram here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahlan...changing_motor. While 240V 1ph to 415 3ph inverters are available it may be cheaper to replace the motor with a new single speed 3ph motor that can be rewired to 240v + 240v inverter, I can see from the photos that the motor is just bolted on the back and not part of any castings, so it should present no problems.

    I had the same issue with my milling machine except that the motor was part of the gearbox casting so I opted to rewind the motor (still with a Dahlander connection) to operate on 240v 3ph.

  3. #3
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    Default

    BTW I wouldn't call your lathe antique or vintage for that matter, you might want to contact one of the moderators and see if you can get the post moved to the Metalwork General section it may get seen by a lot more members.

  4. #4
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    Mar 2019
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by familyguy View Post
    BTW I wouldn't call your lathe antique or vintage for that matter, you might want to contact one of the moderators and see if you can get the post moved to the Metalwork General section it may get seen by a lot more members.
    Ok thanks...wasn’t sure where it should go....I did think this machine was from the sixties from my research....
    was sort of surprised there wasn’t a section just for lathes and lathe work.
    will see what can be done.
    gaza

  5. #5
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
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    Default

    Hi Gazza,

    Just a quick tip ! With a threaded on chuck it is important to keep both the male and female threads scrupulously clean and well lubricated, that also applies to the register behind the spindle threads.
    Any debris in those threads and you will risk the chuck jamming and becoming very hard to remove.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  7. #7
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaza58 View Post
    The switch box will need a good clean. As this machine is a 3Ph 2 speed Dahlander wound motor I am yet to work out a solution to get it running on 240V with VFD. May need to totally rehash the switch box with guidance from profesional people
    I have converted a number of 3Ph 2 speed Dahlander wound motors so they can run on 240V 3P. It's nigh on impossible to keep the 2 speed but you don't to need to anyway because the VFD will give all the speeds you need.

    Also its easier and safer if you ditch the switch box internals completely and run it direct from the VFD since the VFD MUST be directly connected to the motor. Of you really want you can retain the start/stop and FWD/reverse switches by incorporating them into the low V control circuit of the VFD.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    I have converted a number of 3Ph 2 speed Dahlander wound motors so they can run on 240V 3P. It's nigh on impossible to keep the 2 speed but you don't to need to anyway because the VFD will give all the speeds you need.

    Also its easier and safer if you ditch the switch box internals completely and run it direct from the VFD since the VFD MUST be directly connected to the motor. Of you really want you can retain the start/stop and FWD/reverse switches by incorporating them into the low V control circuit of the VFD.
    Bob, I have to say that I regard this as an idiotic thing to do. People like myself would *happily* pay you for the 415V 2 speed motors and you could buy a new single speed 3 phase motor to replace it. Effectively destroying a relatively rare & expensive motor makes no sense to me.

    I can understand doing it to something like an Arboga where the motor is integral with the shaft etc but any other motors which are pulley or Lovejoy type coupled to the drive system - no. Certainly not with the Emco.

    The person I bought my baby toolroom mill off didn't have 3 phase so substituted a single speed 240V 3 phase motor plus VFD following that logic. Unfortunately the idiot *threw out* the original 2 speed motor so I couldn't put the machine back to original condition. That cost him $500 on the sale. The power feeds, you see, are driven off of that same motor, and now you can't rely on the dials for what you want. It's really, really annoying. One day if I find an appropriate motor, I'm putting it back as-was.

    PDW

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    I have converted a number of 3Ph 2 speed Dahlander wound motors so they can run on 240V 3P. It's nigh on impossible to keep the 2 speed but you don't to need to anyway because the VFD will give all the speeds you need.

    Also its easier and safer if you ditch the switch box internals completely and run it direct from the VFD since the VFD MUST be directly connected to the motor. Of you really want you can retain the start/stop and FWD/reverse switches by incorporating them into the low V control circuit of the VFD.
    Thanks Bob,
    I was thinking of making a completely new switch box with only the switches required for the VFD setup Plus Forward/Reverse, lamp switch and Emergency stop. That way I can keep the old switch gear if someone down the track wants to convert it back to the original setup. The old switch box used a contactor to power the motor. There is also a micro switch on the Change gear cover which drops out the contactor
    Looking at the wiring diagram... I am thinking the Low speed winding is the Delta (Speed I) and the High speed is Star (Speed II)

    If that's the case then I should be able to just connect the VFD to those terminals and run speed 1 at 50Hz and wind up to 100Hz for speed 2. [/quote]
    Nope that delta will be a 415v delta. If you connect that to 240v 3P you will develop less than half power. You simply cannot use those connections. The “Y” side of the motor has to be converted to delta which makes it a 240v delta.

  10. #10
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    Adelaide
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    Looking at the wiring diagram I can see two motors - a lathe head motor and a vertical head motor (milling head ?) and I may be wrong but only the vertical head motor looks to be a Dahlander, the lathe head motor which I assume drives the lathe spindle has only 3 connections so it is probably a regular 3ph motor, in which case it probably can be rewired for 240v operation.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by familyguy View Post
    Looking at the wiring diagram I can see two motors - a lathe head motor and a vertical head motor (milling head ?) and I may be wrong but only the vertical head motor looks to be a Dahlander, the lathe head motor which I assume drives the lathe spindle has only 3 connections so it is probably a regular 3ph motor, in which case it probably can be rewired for 240v operation.
    After I posted those photos I realised that the ID Labels on the two motors is back to front on this version of the wiring diagram. I found it on the Net. I have an original Paper copy and the labels are the other way round. The Lathe motor is the Dahlander and the Vertical Mill is a Star wound motor. I don't have the vertical mill attachment on my lathe though.
    Gaza

  12. #12
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    Yes looking again at the photos, No.3 shows a pic of a lathe chuck with 1-2 to the left and right so this translates to speed 1 and 2 either forward or reverse.

  13. #13
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    Bob, I have to say that I regard this as an idiotic thing to do. People like myself would *happily* pay you for the 415V 2 speed motors and you could buy a new single speed 3 phase motor to replace it. Effectively destroying a relatively rare & expensive motor makes no sense to me.

    I can understand doing it to something like an Arboga where the motor is integral with the shaft etc but any other motors which are pulley or Lovejoy type coupled to the drive system - no. Certainly not with the Emco.
    I tend to agree with you - the first such motor I modified was on my large belt sander. The motor has long shafts at both ends, an extra long one for the belt drive roller and slightly longer one for the the disc on other. The chances of me finding a single speed motor like that is next to naught.

    This was the condition it arrived in when I first got it. That's not a belt on it that's rust.
    The sander had been used to sand plaster moulds and was chokka with plaster dust.

    IMG_4159.jpg

    The other one I did was a a motor I found in a pool of rusty water.
    Even though once it had dried out it Meggered OK, it was in such bad shape looks wise and had no fan I seriously doubt anyone would buy it so I use it as a practice motor.

    SIliconedown.jpg

    It's now running well with a 240V computer fan for cooling. Haven't decided what to do wth it.

    I have several other "spare" Dahlander,s one is a new 3HP and teh other is a near new one that I picked up a few years back. I have tried selling several times selling these locally but have not been able to get anywhere near what I reckon they're worth. I have another older 2HP unit that has something wrong with it but I have not explored its problems.

    It comes down to whether you can sell it or not - if its gonna take years to sell it and I need a motor right now I would still probably convert it.

  14. #14
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Apologies I edited instead of replyinging to your post. I’m doing this away from my laptop on a pokey mobile screen. If you can remember what you wrote and post or pm it time I can fix it. When I get back to my laptop. Sorry

  15. #15
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    Hi Bob,

    Stick the sander belt on inside out, it will soon clean that stuff off.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

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