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  1. #16
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    Brady, there is no reason why a stick machine- electrode type welder could not be used on your project.
    If wall thicknesses are over 2.4mm you won't burn through under normal settings.

    If you purchased one you would not be the first bloke to do so and receive all the help that our members can offer.
    More than a few have learned stick welding online here in these forums and become competent welders.
    I would say 20 hours or so of practice will get you in the ballpark.

    The box stores and big hardware places are hardly the vendors to purchase a 'Useful" welder from.

    They sell up to dollar limit they believe their customers will purchase it. In truth the more expensive welders are a better option, but box stores don't carry them.

    In the main its the wannabee brands that don't have a decent stake in the welding industry. The average weekend DIY er gets suckered by these places in as far as welders go.

    The faux migs are my "hot button" and I detest them and believe the stores that promote need a kick in the bum.

    Also now knowing your general location some stick welding member might be inclined to offer to drop over and demonstrate to get you up and running on track, so to speak.

    As far as stick welders go, inverters are not that expensive and there are good ones about for a few more dollars than what you paid for the Ozito.

    Something to think about.

    Grahame

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Melbourne
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    Makes you wonder why Bunnings are selling these though, people are obviously buying them. They must be capable of at least joining something together. I think from memory I've seen them being used on Better Homes and Gardens from time to time, so perhaps that has something to do with it. They don't know any better.

    Almost temped to get one just to see what it's like...

  3. #18
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    Aug 2006
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    Melbourne
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    But seriously as mentioned an inverter would be the way to go, you might be able to do a swap for one of the Bossweld inverters that Bunnings sell for $199 https://www.bunnings.com.au/bossweld...elder_p6380040

    You could later on set it up as a tig welder with the purchase of a TIG torch and argon cylinder which would be a handy process to learn as it is capable of welding very thin materials.

  4. #19
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    Jun 2010
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    Canberra
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    Quote Originally Posted by Com_VC View Post
    Almost temped to get one just to see what it's like...
    I had the same thought, but only if I had someway of getting rid of it afterwards. I guess there’s Gumtree...

  5. #20
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    This subject came up years back while the welding forum operated within the Woodworkers forum.

    The thieves were using the mig title then and poor beggers purchased them in the expectation of them performing as a mig and welding in pieces of car panel as a rust replacement. They found out the hard way that flux core was acidic.

    The slightest amount of welded in flux ate its way out sometime later after a nice paint job was applied.

    As I indicated earlier post the large diameter wire industrial models work a treat. It is what they were designed to do.
    In my apprenticeship, I worked making tree pusher A-frames and ripper assemblies. It was common place to lay down a 20mm, yes 20mm fillet joining 6x 4 x 3/4" angle section into a box . Thats what the flux core was designed for.

    The Manufacturers who didn't care produced these ****boxes that were allegedly the "replacement" for MIG being cheaper and not requiring expensive cylinders, regulators and gas.

    The dinky coils of wire that these toys use are pound for pound, kilogram for kilogram far more expensive in unit cost than solid wire. Do some research before committing yourself.

    These toys run off a 10 amp outlet outlet and cannot deliver the electrical grunt required the for flux core welding process.
    If the machine has a stepped swithes it means these are tappings from the transformer. A good one will have a multi position rotary switch of at least six positions. The more voltage set positions the more accurate the matching of voltage to wire speed in either flux core units or MIG.

    Before someone points it out MIG these days is not MIG as the metal inert gas sheild is generally a mixed gas of inert argon and oxygen and Co2.

    But don't let me disuade anybody from buying a flux core machine.

    Grahame

  6. #21
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    Dec 2018
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    NSW
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    I agree with Grahame, "Gasless MIG" is like saying "Waterless water"

    I suppose the flux core does generate some gas but only about the same as regular stick welding generates.

    If you can take it back ai would definitely do that.
    ...Well there's our answer chaps.
    Nomenclature aside, MIG, MAG or FCAW- the fluxes used in your 'gasless' wires (like the bog standard E71T spec) actually DO create a shielding gas as the flux decomposes under welding conditions. Most of the time this is a CO2 hydrogen mix. Both are 'Active Gases' - ie MAG welding. The actual process has it's own name tough - FCAW flux cored arc welding. No marketer in their own head would put that on a box though.

    As a side point, some of you may remember the less-than-ideal presence of hydrogen in the weld leading to hydrogen porosity and cold cracking as a result of H2 content of the weld pool. Higher end FCAW products utilise CO2 shielding gas to help with the shielding side of the operation, while the flux contributes deoxidisers and denitrifiers, and other metallurgical additives to assist with matching the finished weld metallurgy.

    As for the volume of gas produced with FCAW- it would surely be much less than that of a stick electrode, but the tubular nature of a FCAW wire is that the metal content is also quite a lot smaller per electrode length, so less flux needed.

    In the end of the day, it will weld, maybe not to the extent of a high-end rig, but it's all relative to the price point. Not everyone can afford or wants to drop $3K on a welder.

    TL;DR: semantics aside, hats off to OP for giving it a go. Burn some metal, and show us how it turns out.
    For decorative or non structural work, a grinder and paint can hide the sins of your learning curve, so let'er rip!

  7. #22
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    Canberra
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    While I'm inclined to agree that the Bunnings Ozito unit is likely a frustrating piece of junk, I am also going to point out that I've seen a lot of ill-informed comment about non-industrial flux-core on this forum, with a lot of opinion on the smaller machines masquerading as experience.

    As I've mentioned in the past, my actual experience using a cheap inverter MIG running 0.8mm flux core was highly successful - I built a lot of structural components, including a bunch of brackets connecting 1.6mm wall gal RHS to 5mm flat bar. Every weld has held up just fine, even under some pretty extreme stresses.

    So my point is, based on *actual experience*, thin flux-core can be an extremely useful and capable welding choice. Obviously an excessively cheap welder with limited voltage adjustment and poor regulation may make it challenging to achieve good welds, but that has nothing to do with the capability of the wire itself.

  8. #23
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    Aug 2018
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    AU
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    Thanks for everybodys opinions. I'll let it all soak in and then make a decision tonight.

    I'm limited to buying only from bunnings for this. Please keep in mind i know they sell alot of junk in regards to tools. But I've been given some gift cards for Christmas and thought this would be the perfect opportunity to get a few table legs done.

    The welds won't be any longer than 75mm at most and be used once every couple pf months. All welds will be cleaned up with angle grinder and painted.

    I believe i still have the ability to return because it's still unopened. But I'm limited tp bunnings and a $200ish price mark.

    Thanks again everyone!

    from Sunshine coast QLD

  9. #24
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander_Keen View Post
    ...Well there's our answer chaps.
    Nomenclature aside, MIG, MAG or FCAW- the fluxes used in your 'gasless' wires (like the bog standard E71T spec) actually DO create a shielding gas as the flux decomposes under welding conditions. Most of the time this is a CO2 hydrogen mix. Both are 'Active Gases' - ie MAG welding. The actual process has it's own name tough - FCAW flux cored arc welding. No marketer in their own head would put that on a box though.
    It might be better if gasless MIG was called Self Generated Metal Inert Gas (SGMIG) - well, . . . , better that FCAW anyway?

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    Notting Hiĺl (Melb) or Echuca
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    Default online steel prices

    Quote Originally Posted by bradyofdoom View Post
    snip.....
    and roughly what price per meter I'll be paying for hollow rectangular mild steel?
    snip
    Greetings from a DIYer who still has a lot to learn.
    I realise they are not local suppliers to Queensland but their web sites provide some idea of costs near me.

    https://www.steelsolutions.com.au/products.php
    will cut to length so price per meter is higher,even for full lengths

    https://robotbuildingsupplies.com.au...teel-products/ only sell full lengths and less range.

    Used both and no commercial link to either.

    Re comments on tools... I am only a self taught stick welder. Rod type was the biggest hint anyone gave me. E6013 are my friend. I have an old a.c. welder made by noah's cousin and it continues to serve well. Got a Dc UNIMIG a year ago. welds on thin material and on the end of extension leads better but my first learning was Rod selection... let me strike and keep predictable, stable arc.
    Others can say if the same is true for gassless MIG.
    I agree with comment that a grinder can fix aesthetics..it also gives a second go if all goes pear shaped but be careful with them. They may not have teeth, but they can bite. Correct disc, correct mount, all guards, PEP (Face shield, ear muff minimum), 2 hands on tool...always.

    All the best having a go...
    cheers
    David

    ------------------------------------------------
    A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they’ll never sit in. (Greek proverb)

  11. #26
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    Jun 2012
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    melbourne
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    Another possibility would be to weld as shown in this picture, rather than try to make a mitre cut.
    ScreenShot289.jpg


    Wouldn't look that much different from your design but there's nothing wrong with your way.

    If you have the open end, you can plug it with a plastic plug which would double as a foot for the leg
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fence-Po...ecGQ:rk:1:pf:0

    I would think a metal frame directly on the floor would mess up the floor surface, so having a plastic foot could be good.

    If you are just starting out welding, remember its not just the weld itself that takes time to learn, but also how to apply the welds so the frame doesn't distort and look all wonky. Just a bit out on any of the legs will look really obvious because its easy to see when legs aren't parallel by even a little.

  12. #27
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    AU
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    Quote Originally Posted by sossity View Post
    Another possibility would be to weld as shown in this picture, rather than try to make a mitre cut.
    ScreenShot289.jpg


    Wouldn't look that much different from your design but there's nothing wrong with your way.

    If you have the open end, you can plug it with a plastic plug which would double as a foot for the leg
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fence-Po...ecGQ:rk:1:pf:0

    I would think a metal frame directly on the floor would mess up the floor surface, so having a plastic foot could be good.

    If you are just starting out welding, remember its not just the weld itself that takes time to learn, but also how to apply the welds so the frame doesn't distort and look all wonky. Just a bit out on any of the legs will look really obvious because its easy to see when legs aren't parallel by even a little.
    Thank you! That's a great idea. The mitres had me worried haha. Perfect solution and much more practical.

    from Sunshine coast QLD

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradyofdoom View Post
    I've tried to change my location but i can't figure it out for the life of me haha. I've put my location in my signature instead. I'm from Woombye, QLD.
    Easy peasy,
    Scroll up to the top of the page and second line down there is a line of titles one of which is Forum Actions. Use the pulldown feature and select the Edit Profile.
    Scroll down the page that comes up and yor your location is down a bit .

    Change it and save.
    Grahame

  14. #29
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    If you are going to buy a welder, it follows that a welding table is a necessity unless you enjoy working on the ground.

    Firstly it is a darn good first project as far as the practice of tacking, assembly and welding, go.

    A welding table would allow for laying out the legs parallel and square.

    I have utilised a sheet of cheap form ply on sawhorses and screwed and clamped components to hold alignment.
    Should you choose that option it would allow wooden strips to screwed to the ply and act as stops and create a jig

    It is really important to tack all components to one another before welding proper occurs.

    A tack (welding tack) for what you wish to do could be considered as small pieces of welding applied at various opposing points on your frame.

    Let's say a small welded deposit the size of the cross section of a pencil. There's enough metal to hold the joint but not so such as to prevent adjustment if needed. Unless held securely in some way (clamping,tacking or in a fixture) distortion from cooling weld/s can pull your frame out of square and parallel.

    A tack is usually performed using higher amps so it flattens out and can be welded over, or the remainder of the weld on the joint welded from or to it.

    I think Sossity has made a good suggestion re the plastic inserts. It would certainly simplify set up if you are not seeking the specific style of the frame as it is.

    The secret is to tack, measure for parallel and/or check square before moving on to the next joint.

    At he moment I am still searching for a good picture of a tack welded frame for examples of tack placement.

    The other blokes may have something to add if I have forgotten something.

    Grahame

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahame Collins View Post
    If you are going to buy a welder, it follows that a welding table is a necessity unless you enjoy working on the ground.

    Firstly it is a darn good first project as far as the practice of tacking, assembly and welding, go.

    A welding table would allow for laying out the legs parallel and square.

    I have utilised a sheet of cheap form ply on sawhorses and screwed and clamped components to hold alignment.
    Should you choose that option it would allow wooden strips to screwed to the ply and act as stops and create a jig

    It is really important to tack all components to one another before welding proper occurs.

    A tack (welding tack) for what you wish to do could be considered as small pieces of welding applied at various opposing points on your frame.

    Let's say a small welded deposit the size of the cross section of a pencil. There's enough metal to hold the joint but not so such as to prevent adjustment if needed. Unless held securely in some way (clamping,tacking or in a fixture) distortion from cooling weld/s can pull your frame out of square and parallel.

    A tack is usually performed using higher amps so it flattens out and can be welded over, or the remainder of the weld on the joint welded from or to it.

    I think Sossity has made a good suggestion re the plastic inserts. It would certainly simplify set up if you are not seeking the specific style of the frame as it is.

    The secret is to tack, measure for parallel and/or check square before moving on to the next joint.

    At he moment I am still searching for a good picture of a tack welded frame for examples of tack placement.

    The other blokes may have something to add if I have forgotten something.

    Grahame
    Thanks for your detailed advice Grahame! I picked up some steel today from a local fabricator. All cut too size and reasonably priced! Keen to get practicing my welds.

    Thanks again everyone. I'll post a few photos of finished product!

    Cheers, Brady.

    from Sunshine coast QLD

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