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Thread: Horizontal Bandsaws
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15th Nov 2018, 08:55 AM #1Most Valued Member
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Horizontal Bandsaws
I was about to head off to H&F to buy a BS-4A horizontal bandsaw, but they tell me they are out of stock and won't have any until end of month. So I'm considering the BS-5S swivel head model. https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/B003
It appears to be similar to the BS-4A with the addition of a swivel head. It has a larger capacity (200mm width) and weights a little more. They say it’s made in Taiwan.
Any of you guys have one of these who can help me decide whether to buy it or wait for a BS-4A? Or can anyone offer any general comments on swivel vs fixed head horizontal bandsaws?
Edit: I found a thread on this forum from 2012 dealing with a similar question to mine. Some good reports about the BS-5S. It would still be good to get some more recent reports.Chris
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15th Nov 2018, 09:30 AM #2Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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The swivel head is really worth getting, otherwise to cut angles with the BS4 you have to be able to rotate the whole length of stock and when you have to cut from a 6m long piece of stock that becomes a PITA in a small shed. The alternative is two cuts, one square and the the angle which takes longer and wastes material.
The extra capacity of the 5 is good but with a little farnarkling the BS4 capacity can be opened up to 150 x 125mm and more.
I still think the 1/2HP on both these machines is on the small side and I upsized mine to a 1HP.
I also added a pneumatic vertical speed control which is more sensitive that the spring constrainer.
The other thing with teh BS4 and 5 is the stands are too low making it a bit of a nuisance to set up and hard to see what is going on.
I increased the height of mine by about 75mm but that is still too low IMHO
I I were to upgrade I would probably go for a BS6V and make a decent height stand for it.
The BS6V also has a 2HP direct variable speed motor and can take 19mm wide blades.
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15th Nov 2018, 09:56 AM #3
Hi Chris,
I have a BS4A.It was n't by choice because at the time I ordered the bandsaw I was expecting a Rong-Fu.
To explain, the Taiwanese RONG FU had been around a long time and was basic but built like a brick dunny.From what I can gather around that time RONG FU stopped production of this base model bandsaw-better than equivalent to a modern BS4A.
Without being consulted, I was supplied with a BS4A and knew nothing about it until it was delivered.
The Chinese BS4A is a somewhat lighter cheaper version and almost invariable requires fettling to some degree or another to acheive good performance.
There is a heap of posts from several years back about improvement and mods to it.
Given the BS5A is Taiwanese its likely to a rebadged RONG FU which in this case makes it a much better machine than the other guys make.
You can then simply match features against pricing but my opinion would be in favor of the BS5A.
However, if you can get your mitts on an old RONG FU they are head and shoulders over a new BS4A.
Also please consider a new biMetal blade when setting up your bandsaw and ensure the blade is run in properly.It makes SO MUCH difference.
Cheers Grahame
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15th Nov 2018, 12:09 PM #4Most Valued Member
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Horizontal Bandsaws
Thanks Bob and Grahame,
I went and looked at the BS-5S. It looks good for the price. I was impressed with how smooth the tilt and swivel functions are. The castings look good and the vice will be good once I fit a wider jaw with a jack screw, which seems to be a common mod for these bandsaws.
The plastic belt guard is appalling and the motor seems huge for ½ HP. A more powerful 3 phase motor might be in order.
Will certainly get a couple of bimetal blades.
Unfortunately the box was about 50mm too long to fit in my boot. Will go back later with my son’s wagon.Chris
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15th Nov 2018, 12:23 PM #5Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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15th Nov 2018, 12:55 PM #6Most Valued Member
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I purchased it online and got a $50 discount voucher. Am waiting for an email telling me it’s ready for pickup.
There’s a huge range of TPI choices in the blades. The H&F website has a table of recommended TPIs which is based purely on material thickness. I really just want a blade that will be adequate for most jobs. I will mostly be cutting BMS solid round up to 25mm diameter, steel angle up to 6mm thick and aluminium stock up to 50mm. Can anyone recommend a suitable TPI that will cover this work?Chris
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15th Nov 2018, 01:58 PM #7Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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You can always cut bigger stuff with a higher TPI - it will just be slower, but cutting thinner stuff with lower TPI can damage the blade.
You nominally need at least 3 teeth in the cut at all times.
I use a bimetal variable pitch (10-14 TPI) for most things even 50 mm stock.
I have got a 6 TPI blade I use sometime on thicker stock but have used it about 3 times in two years.
I find using coolant/lube really prolongs the blade life.
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15th Nov 2018, 02:06 PM #8Mechanical Butcher
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A swivel head is a luxury feature, but not essential I think.
You can move a non-swivelling bandsaw to the angle you need, rather than the stock, if required.
Rule of thumb for minimum tooth pitch is that material should be no less than the thickness of 3 pitches.
Finer is OK, too coarse leads to tooth breakage.
I think H&F had recommendations for tooth pitch on their website.
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15th Nov 2018, 02:37 PM #9Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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They do - see above, but using their recommendations (and others) works out to considerably more than 3 tooth pitches in the cut, and it varies considerably for material thickness.
For 10 mm stock the recommendation is ~1.4mm between teeth or 7 teeth in the cut,
For 10-15 mm thick stock the recommendation is between 5-8 teeth in the cut
For 16-30 its 6 - 12 in the cut, and for 31-50 it works out to 10-15 in the cut.
I think these higher numbers are so as to minimise tooth wear.
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15th Nov 2018, 02:42 PM #10
Hi Chris
I am getting good results from 10-14 TPI bi-metal blades.
The current blade a 10/14 has been fitted for some 18 months. I use this blade on average of 3 times a week.
It was the blade I used to cut the cutlers stiddy below. You can observe the cut quality. Notice the cut surfaces are all smooth . When chips are catching in the blade gullets you can feel the saw "bounce" and can see the scour in the cut patten afterwards. This cutting operation may not be, by the recommendations but I feel I must be doing something right.
Admittedly I helped this blade by supporting with my hand so the blade while cutting was not under the full weight of the saw arm.
I used WD 40 as a lube and flush to lift the saw chips away from the cut.
The blade also is used to cut box and angle sections usually with wall thickness between 3 to 6mm.Mind you, this blade is set up dead nutz square as the Americans would say.
imag0256.jpg
Grahame
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15th Nov 2018, 03:44 PM #11Most Valued Member
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Thanks Gents. Just picked up the saw. Looking forward to assembling it. Unfortunately H&F don’t stock bimetal blades for the BS-5S. They recommended Ace Saw Service in Braeside who can make me one.
Chris
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15th Nov 2018, 07:13 PM #12Most Valued Member
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15th Nov 2018, 07:48 PM #13Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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I got mine from a local saw sharpening service, most of these places will make up the band to size for about the same price as an H&F band.
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15th Nov 2018, 08:36 PM #14Most Valued Member
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G/day Chris, congrats on the new saw, try this mob, Specialty Saws Australia | Official Arntz Bandsaw Supplier
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15th Nov 2018, 08:39 PM #15Golden Member
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Hi jack620.
I am sure once you you sort out a good 10/14 bi metal blade and set this saw up you will be like all of us wondering how you ever got by without it. I have had my BS5S for a few years now and have done quite a few modifications to it, most of which I have posed. Have a look in "Your Latest Project" posts 934-938 and 2133. Once you arrange the blade to cut square I think the biggest problem with these narrow bladed saws is the down feed needs to be controlled otherwise they will cut out of square. This is especially so when cutting RHS and round tubing and angle iron. The little piece of round bar that I have show placed under the spring in post 2133 helps a lot.
Bob
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