Thread: Tooling advice for a new lathe

Greetings All.
Am looking at a new lathe, probably a H&F AL336, and would like some advice on tooling. This will be my first lathe and is to be used for hobby/ vehicle restoration. Anticipate turning mild steel, cast iron, Al, brass and hdpe. Am leaning towards setting up with hss tooling rather than carbide but would appreciate any advice and reasons if you think I should be going the other way or getting a mix of both.
Secondly, is it better to buy higher quality tooling from an engineering supplier?

Tony

Originally Posted by tony_A

Am leaning towards setting up with hss tooling rather than carbide but would appreciate any advice and reasons if you think I should be going the other way or getting a mix of both.

The tools that most quickly eased/improved my turning were

1) A Quick Change Tool post with a set of quick change tool holders.

2) Left and right diamond tool holder from Eccentric Engineering
https://www.eccentricengineering.com...=32&Itemid=297 Am increasing use less and less HS and

3) using Crobalt cutters (Mix of Co and W plus their carbides) that fit in the diamond tool holder from EE.
https://www.eccentricengineering.com...=31&Itemid=168
I rarely used anything else on my lathe although am increasingly using more straight carbides.
When I got my lathe it came with a wide range of HSS cutters and HSS stock but found I haven't use any for a couple of years.

4) T-profile parting tool also from EE. If you can lock your chuck onto your spindle you can use these with the lathe in reverse but I just use mine with the lathe going in teh usual directions.

The above cost a bit more than cheap chinese tooling but they are worth every cent.

Unless you are into production work or have deep pockets, for a small lathe such as your intended machine, then most other tooling can be covered by cheap chinese tooling. If it wears out replacements are dirt cheap. I do this for things like boring bars, carbide cutter holders, carbides and centres etc.

Answering the second part of the question first, just buy the cheapies and learn how to use them, learn what you like and don't like, there are a lot of personal preferences involved in tooling choices.

As far as carbide vs high speed steel, again there are a lot of personal preferences here, having and being able to use both gives you a lot more choices on how to tackle a job. I use mainly carbide, it makes steel disappear a lot more quickly than HSS, if I need a special cutting tool for a feature I'll grind one from HSS.

Hi Tony,
Welcome to the Forum.
I own a similar sized lathe and mainly use HSS steel. As an amateur, I feel that HSS is cost-efficient and more versatile than carbide in that it can be ground to a custom use when necessary. Carbide is really aimed at industry but many of our members prefer it, possibly as they are unable to grind HSS to the profiles needed. Like you I turn mild steel, cast iron, Al, brass,alloy steel(sometimes) and hdpe. There is nothing better than a sharp HSS tool to give very effective HDPE finish.

Like many things, grinding the HSS takes a little bit of a learning curve. Once learned the skill is with you for life.

I would invest in a decent quick change tool post ( or one might come with the lathe) and extra blocks as they make a tool set up really easy.

Another investment would be a bench grinder fitted. with white aluminum oxide stones of 80 and 100 grit. Modifying your grinder to take a large tool rest plate will pay dividends as the tooling is easier to grasp and rest your hand.

This is not to say I don't use any carbide tools. I have two tools for the odd tough metal jobs. Be aware there are a couple of grades of HSS

Again welcome to the mob.

Grahame

I would second the EE tagenital toolholders they are great as they both simplify grinding (more angles are built into position of the tool) and are good for low horsepower machines.

What BobL said. I totally agree.
If I was starting out again I would do exactly that.
I have all the EE tooling now, but it would have been so good and cost effective to have had it from the start.
Also have an AXA type quick change tool post and I could never go back to shims. It is just so quick and easy to do jobs on the lathe now.
I do have some carbide tooling and it has it's uses at times but I mainly use HSS and Crobalt.
All the best with it.

Alan

Thanks Alan, Bob, Bob, Grahame and CW. That's a pretty resounding recommendation for EE tooling, you have convinced me.
Am curious about the different grades of HSS that Grahame mentioned, have seen the two that EE sell and then there's the generic product available from a range of suppliers. Are there other generally available types that I should know about.
I read a recommendation for Ron Culley's book "Fitting and Machining Technical Book" a while back and am intending to buy it as a learning resource, unless people recommend an alternative.

Tony

Hi Tony I've got so much Hss send me a pm with your address and I'll post you a few bits to learn with. Just let me know what toolholders size you buy.

Originally Posted by tony_A

Thanks Alan, Bob, Bob, Grahame and CW. That's a pretty resounding recommendation for EE tooling, you have convinced me.
Am curious about the different grades of HSS that Grahame mentioned, have seen the two that EE sell and then there's the generic product available from a range of suppliers. Are there other generally available types that I should know about.
I read a recommendation for Ron Culley's book "Fitting and Machining Technical Book" a while back and am intending to buy it as a learning resource, unless people recommend an alternative.

There is a great article on High Speed Steels in the ASM Handbook, Volume 16: Machining, P51-59.
https://www.asminternational.org/doc...22g_sample.pdf
This article discusses the history of HSS, the types and what types are best suited to what tasks.
Most of what hobby machinists use is type M2.
Most applications of the less well know types (M3 / 4, the M40's, and the T series steels) relate to higher speed operations and minimising tool wear in production environments, or machining of extremely hard steels that won't have a lot of relevance at the hobby level. Cutter tip formation becomes increasingly important and harder to achieve with the super hard HSSs which is probably why carbides have taken over some of these applications.

Here is table extracted from that article showing the typical elemental contents for some types.
The residual % is of course Iron
Screen Shot 2018-11-14 at 5.25.50 pm.png

BTW The Crobalt bits that EE sell are not really HSS as they contain no significant amounts of Iron. They contain mainly Cobalt and Tungsten plus some carbides so they are not a "Steel". Like Carbides, Crobalt will chip easily if abused. There's nothing more frustrating than a chip that runs down the edge of the main cutting corner that requires some mm of tip to be ground away to regenerate the cutting tip!

Hi Tony,

Coming from a purely hobbyist point of view, I have a Myford S7 fairly low powered lathe and use almost exclusively HSS tools, mostly M42, only because I have lots of it, and I still habitually pick up bits of tool steel in the scrap yards and other places I visit from time to time.

Now the only carbide tool I use, which is a threading insert, and an inside one at that, is because its a darn sight easier than trying to accurately grind a threading tool !

Now I said that its an inside threading insert. I try to always thread away from the chuck towards the tailstock and run the lathe in reverse. Apart from the advantage of not being able to crash into the chuck, my lathe is an imperial one, and I do cut metric threads. So I use the technique of leaving the half nut closed and winding back to the start.

Whilst this is probably more information than you want to know, and I would highly recommend that you learn to grind lathe tools properly, The "Diamond" lathe tool is a very good starter tool, but it can't do everything.

Good luck and have fun

Hi,
I know that M2 is the basic, and I seem to remember an M4,possibly that is crobalt that EE use.
The Fitting and Machining Book ,the Tafe handbook is on special in the H&F 3 day sale for $79, I have a copy but there is no mention of Ron Culley on the cover.
Grahame

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

Hi,
I know that M2 is the basic, and I seem to remember an M4,possibly that is crobalt that EE use.

All M series HSS are Moly steels so the majority of the metal is iron.
M2 is the most common as it has one of the better general performance characteristics.
According to EE, Crobalt is "50% Cobalt, with the other 50% being Tungsten, Chromium, their carbides and some other additives." So its not a steel at all.

Apart from what others have said, buy a decent drill chuck for the tailstock to start with.
I'd also recommend picking up a couple of morse taper drills that are above the 13mm size you'll usually find in drill sets. They don't need to be new drills, just ones that can be sharpened to make holes.
It will save you a heap of time when you come to bore out a bit of stock compared to gnawing at it with small boring bars from a minimal size. I've done the former for years, but recently bought a set of MT2 drills up to 32mm (my lathe is a bit bigger than yours). A couple of minutes with a drill can easily save 15mins messing around opening a bore up with smaller boring bars.

Cheapy indicators and mag base are fine for starters. And they don't hurt so much when you drop them. Get a dial type and a lever type - shouldn't cost you more than about $60 total.

Steve

Baron, If I am reading you correctly you are suggesting getting a standard style tool holder as well? If I am likely to want one of these down the track then will get it with the lathe.
With regard to tool sharpening I am expecting that the book I mentioned above will cover the theory but I am interested in any jigs that people either have bought or made. I understand where you are coming from with the threading but that's a little way off yet.

Steve, I was intending to get an MT3 drill chuck with the lathe but I'm curious what you mean by the term "decent". Was thinking an H&F chuck.
I like what you are suggesting with the larger drill bits and indicators.

Tony

The comments WRT preferring HSS and carbide being mainly used by people who can't sharpen HSS is pretty funny.

I'll put forward my ability to sharpen HSS freehand on a bench grinder against pretty much everyone on this forum. I've been known to hand-sharpen the ends of a 2 flute slot drill when I was in a hurry and it wasn't a critical job.

On the lathes I use mainly carbide tipped tooling. Not because I can't sharpen HSS, I have a ton of different grinds for different purposes, made 3 in the last 2 days for making the rope grooves in HDPE sheaves, all ground freehand.

No, I use carbide because I want to actually REMOVE METAL not play with it. As soon as you get away from the soft metals and A36 steel, *and* have a machine with more HP than required to pull the skin off of a custard along with the rigidity needed, carbide is simply far more efficient and consistent.

I ate up 2 edges of a pretty good grade Mitsubishi CCMT insert just this afternoon roughing down Aquamet 22 before I found the sweet spot on speeds and feed. That stuff would have eaten the edge off of even my really tough HSS and I'd have been re-sharpening the cutter each pass.

For a beginner I'd get a bunch of HSS *and* a QCTP with LH, RH and boring bars taking the CCMT tips. Other than that, a live centre, a decent drill chuck and a few different dial indicators. And learn to set up work in a 4 jaw chuck, it isn't that hard and gives a lot better grip than any 3 jaw chuck out there.

PDW